Relief pitchers & Closers roles improved?

[jbmagic]

How has Relief pitchers & Closers roles improved in 2007 compare to past versions?

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Relief pitchers & Closers roles improved?

Seadh.

[ifspuds]

You might actually get a question answered with a reasoned response if you asked how they're improved.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

How has Relief pitchers & Closers roles improved in 2007 compare to past versions?

If you could explain a little bit more what you are concerned about, I may be able to answer.

[Craig Scarborough]

Let me help here...

Has that thing I thought about been fixed?

Thank you.

[NomarHits400]

I am not sure what the poster means- but I know, for example- that in my league it was rare for more than one closer in any league to have more than 40 saves. The team saves was spot on- but because of poor usage of the closer and managing the bullpen (several times I saw a team's closer with an endurance rating of 20-30 go 3 to 4 innings at a time- 40 or 50 pitches an outing- and this with the pitch limit set to 20 for these closers)- the team's closer was unavailable for duty a decent portion of the time.

It would be nice to hear the AI utilizes the bullpen better this year- or at least gives us better restraints for closer usage...

[Raidergoo]

I had Rob Dibble save 52 games in 1990 for the Reds.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

I am not sure what the poster means- but I know, for example- that in my league it was rare for more than one closer in any league to have more than 40 saves. The team saves was spot on- but because of poor usage of the closer and managing the bullpen (several times I saw a team's closer with an endurance rating of 20-30 go 3 to 4 innings at a time- 40 or 50 pitches an outing- and this with the pitch limit set to 20 for these closers)- the team's closer was unavailable for duty a decent portion of the time.

It would be nice to hear the AI utilizes the bullpen better this year- or at least gives us better restraints for closer usage...

Exactly

I would hope the AI utilitize the bullpen better for this new version.

[statfreak]

except that it's all relative. Closers in OOTP2006 work exactly the way I want them to so I would hope nothing has changed. If all the closers are going to start saving 40 to 50 games, that will all but kill my enjoyment of the game.

[DerekT]

I'll give an area that I always felt could be improved on. The closer should come in at the start of the 9th inning.

Instead the closer has always had a tendency to come in either at the 8.1 or 8.2 mark.

This wasn't a big deal, but it should be the start of the inning, not after an out has been delivered.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by DerekT

I'll give an area that I always felt could be improved on. The closer should come in at the start of the 9th inning.

Instead the closer has always had a tendency to come in either at the 8.1 or 8.2 mark.

This wasn't a big deal, but it should be the start of the inning, not after an out has been delivered.

In some cases the closer DOES come in at the 8th inning in real life, and he then has to get 4 or 5 outs. Sometimes in OOTP this happens too

[DerekT]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

In some cases the closer DOES come in at the 8th inning in real life, and he then has to get 4 or 5 outs. Sometimes in OOTP this happens too

I know thats why I said its not a big concern, but something I always felt could be improved. And its not so much that he comes in at the 8th but more 9th with 2 outs when he should of just been put in when the 9th inning began.

Overall though not a big thing.

[Curtis]

I think that has to do with whether you want closers as used during the past twenty years, which is how you describe them (coming in at the start of the ninth), or if you want to use your closers as they were from the late 60s until the mid-80s. In that era they were called 'firemen', and they came in when you were in a tight spot — usually in the seventh or eight with men on base — to put out the fire. I've never understood 'closers'; give me a good 'fireman' every time!

Tug McGraw lives!

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I think that has to do with whether you want closers as used during the past twenty years, which is how you describe them (coming in at the start of the ninth), or if you want to use your closers as they were from the late 60s until the mid-80s. In that era they were called 'firemen', and they came in when you were in a tight spot — usually in the seventh or eight with men on base — to put out the fire. I've never understood 'closers'; give me a good 'fireman' every time!

Tug McGraw lives!

I agree with everything in this post.

[NomarHits400]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I think that has to do with whether you want closers as used during the past twenty years, which is how you describe them (coming in at the start of the ninth), or if you want to use your closers as they were from the late 60s until the mid-80s. In that era they were called 'firemen', and they came in when you were in a tight spot — usually in the seventh or eight with men on base — to put out the fire. I've never understood 'closers'; give me a good 'fireman' every time!

Tug McGraw lives!

Good points- and so it would be nice to be able to dictate WHEN a closer is used- and HOW he is used (close games in the 7th inning- just the last three outs, etc.)- and how OFTEN he is used. If the AI can't sort out that I don't want my closer pitching 3, 4 and 5 inning stints- or if it can't manage the bullpen adequately enough to avoid this from occuring 8-10 times a year- I'd like to see it addressed- or be able to dictate the usage- either one is fine. Has no else noticed this- am I the only one?.

I agree with Markus on the 1+ inning saves- this happens often enough in real life- somebody look up B.J. Ryan's numbers last year....But I defy you to find me an instance of a closer going 3+ innings except in extreme circumstances (in today's closer climate).

Another question I had for Markus- does the strategy setting for pitch count limit not work for relievers- is it's usage only intended for starters? If this function worked fro closers- I think it would suffice for keeping them from being overworked (and thus be available more often for working back to back games).

[CHCfan]

my closers issue has always been the AI wanting to change closers mid-way through the season. Oftentimes this is perfectly fine - but when it's clearly due to pitcher B having a slightly better overall rating as a closer than pitcher A, despite pitcher A having a great season (leading the league in saves, ERA around 2, and an amazing k:BB ratio).

I believe I heard the AI gives more weight to stats this year?

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by CHCfan

I believe I heard the AI gives more weight to stats this year?

Yes - definitely. Customizable, too.

[ctorg]

In his Historical Abstract, Bill James broke down closers into several categories based on historical ways in which they were used. He used individual players as examples of each type, though I can't remember which players were used now (I think Hoyt Wilhelm was one, Mike Marshall another, but I'm not sure). Anyway, it would be great if the game could let us base closer usage on one of those strategic archetypes.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

Good points- and so it would be nice to be able to dictate WHEN a closer is used- and HOW he is used (close games in the 7th inning- just the last three outs, etc.)- and how OFTEN he is used.

Another question I had for Markus- does the strategy setting for pitch count limit not work for relievers- is it's usage only intended for starters? If this function worked fro closers- I think it would suffice for keeping them from being overworked (and thus be available more often for working back to back games).

I agree with Nomar's suggestion. For 2008 you could include (maybe on the Pitching page?) fields for: earliest inning to bring in Closer; earliest inning to bring in Setup Man; bring in closer/setup only at start of inning? (yes/no);maximum number of innings per appearance for closer/setup man (1/2/3); maximum number of appearances without rest for Closer or MR; maximum number of days rest for Closer/MR. Maybe others.

I've tried looking for the pitch count limit and haven't been able to find it. Where is it located?

Originally Posted by ctorg

In his Historical Abstract, Bill James broke down closers into several categories based on historical ways in which they were used. Anyway, it would be great if the game could let us base closer usage on one of those strategic archetypes.

I like this idea, too, but you'd need a very complete description of each archetypal template in the Game Guide.

Paging Steve Battisti!

[Ktulu]

I agree with Nomar's suggestion. For 2008 you could include (maybe on the Pitching page?) fields for: earliest inning to bring in Closer; earliest inning to bring in Setup Man; bring in closer/setup only at start of inning? (yes/no);maximum number of innings per appearance for closer/setup man (1/2/3); maximum number of appearances without rest for Closer or MR; maximum number of days rest for Closer/MR. Maybe others.

In addition to something like this, I've always wanted an innning by inning "depth chart" where you could choose which reliever(s) you wanted to use in each situation. (Tie game, leading close game/not close, trailing close game/not close etc.)