csv data dumps v2007

[endgame]

This may end up being moved, but I'd like to at least start a conversation here with folks that include many like me, unacquainted with possibility.

One of the areas in which I felt myself lacking intelligence and completely dependent on modders was the idea of the csv or sql dump. Will there be any provision for some - and I know Larry (webcomedian) tried with a few tutorial posts on Access - gentle guidance as to how the average Joe Unknown can make some simple use of this, what seems to be, extremely viable tool for sourcing and gathering information?

Several times I've held books like Basball Hacks or SQL Made Easy and the like, but after a more thorough perusal concluded the time investment and learning curve might just be too steep and too late in life.

Was the data dump function intended, in its conception, for the modders or for the more statistically-articulate programming clientle?

[battists]

Endgame,

There won't be any instructions, really, sorry to say.

I hope that the game guide/in-game help will include a detailed description of all of the fields in the csv dumps. But in terms of what you can do with them, you're going to have to find that expertise on your own, or here.

Apologies for that...

Steve

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by endgame

Was the data dump function intended, in its conception, for the modders or for the more statistically-articulate programming clientèle?

I think for people with DBA skills and 3rd party programmers. Having a functional data dump on the first build made challenging game output a snap.

[Elendil]

I know nothing about Access or MySQL, but I just use Excel (actually, OpenOffice Calc) to work with CSV's. IMO, they're a snap, if you know how to use spreadsheets.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Elendil

I know nothing about Access or MySQL, but I just use Excel (actually, OpenOffice Calc) to work with CSV's. IMO, they're a snap, if you know how to use spreadsheets.

endgame, allow me to echo this comment. Forget about Access if all you want to do is manipulate data and produce home-made reports. I know a bit about Access and it is not user-friendly IMO. If you know something about Excel, or you can take a course in it locally, you would be able to do so much more with that program, and so much more easily, than Access.

A csv file is merely a basic text file that has data values separated by commas. Excel knows what this is, easily uploads it, and converts it into a spreadsheet file. You can then use Excel's much easier controls (than Access) for manipulating the data; moving, hiding, deleting rows and columns; sorting, filtering; making your own formulas; producing your own reports. You may surprise yourself with what you can do!

Here are a few links that may make you feel more comfortable with the idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ex...997251033.aspx (Excel 2007)

http://office.microsoft.com/training...RP011801171033 (Excel 2003)

[endgame]

Intuitively, at least, the data dump capability seems an enormous tool left untapped by the simpler, common player, short on both resource and a real understanding of its possibilities, however slight or potentially limited by his skill base.

I'm relatively familiar with Excel basics, and will - with other resources - begin with this version to explore whether the database affords me distinct personal gain with my own personal effort. Like many, I've historically been reliant, almost exclusively, on the talents of modders/utility makers. In and of itself, that's not a negative. I'm thankful and grateful for their valuable and consistent contributions. On the other hand, program and game capabilities included, by the nature of being included, infer some usefulness directly to a game-owner; in the opposite rationale Markus cites when not including particular - shall we say esoteric - statistics that are beyond the interest or understanding of the majority of users.

In part, I suppose, I introduced the topic not only to open up an avenue to gain understanding myself, but to encourage those who simply considered a data dump capability the equivalent of footnotes in French while reading an otherwise wonderful treatise on a subject of interest. Enrichment is in the translation if we expend some additional effort of our own. With that analogy, it would be appreciated if the author would include in the work the simplest of translation glossaries. Maybe consideration for a future version of the customization manual with some simple illustrations for the layman. I digress.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

[1998 Yankees]

Good luck. BTW, I forgot until I went into the Customization Manual just now for another purpose that there are two sections therein that deal very nicely with this topic:

10.0 About Comma-Separated Files
11.0 Editing OOPTB Text Files in Microsoft Excel

Hopefully they will restore the link to that download soon.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Good luck. BTW, I forgot until I went into the Customization Manual just now for another purpose that there are two sections therein that deal very nicely with this topic:

10.0 About Comma-Separated Files
11.0 Editing OOPTB Text Files in Microsoft Excel

Hopefully they will restore the link to that download soon.

Thanks for all of the tips and reminders, Yank. You are the official resident OOTP reference librarian. I had my copy of the CG tucked away and, honestly, forgot that there was that initial - and fair - treatment of the tool in that original version. I've resigned myself to the idea that this area, as is much of the game really, is one of individual endeavour and limitation. One works with what they have to work with, whether it be time, talent, or money. You might say managing my own game ambitions aren't that far removed from that of managing a team. How ironic that I'd overlook the metaphor. Thanks again.