MLE's and PCM's in 2007

[Craig Scarborough]

So...how many versions have we had MLEs and PCMs? This will be the second, right (unless my memory is failing, which really wouldn't surprise me)? Why then, do we not have a once-and-for-all definition of these terms from Markus? Why are people still speculating how these work and what they affect?

Markus, can you help us out here - and please, not one or two sentence responses. I want a definitive account of what exactly these two options do and don't do.

Thanks!

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Craig Scarborough

So...how many versions have we had MLEs and PCMs? This will be the second, right (unless my memory is failing, which really wouldn't surprise me)? Why then, do we not have a once-and-for-all definition of these terms from Markus? Why are people still speculating how these work and what they affect?

Markus, can you help us out here - and please, not one or two sentence responses. I want a definitive account of what exactly these two options do and don't do.

Thanks!

This is what confuses me. The knowledge is there. It's not some vague, unknown science that went into making these. They do very specific things. It's just that no one has communicated exactly what it is that they do. Or, when they have, it hasn't quite been clear.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Craig Scarborough

Markus, can you help us out here - and please, not one or two sentence responses. I want a definitive account of what exactly these two options do and don't do.

"What we have here is failure to communicate."

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by JHruska

See, I thought MLEs were supposed to be more like they are IRL, a ratio of what stats in the lower level will roughly convert to if that player were to move up to a higher level.

But that's wholly dependent on the talent of the other players in the league. Say you have a Japanese League that you've set to an MLE of 0.95. But the players who are actually in the league average out to a 0.80. If you put an American major leaguer in the Japanese League their numbers will reflect the 0.80 of the competition, not the 0.95 you entered.

Or if it doesn't... then I don't quite understand what's going on.

That shouldn't really affect the talent of the players at that particular level, other than to decide when the organization promotes platers into or out of the level.

There are a lot of things that effect the talent of the players at that level. In an indy league it's mostly finances. In an affiliated league it's the rules of thumb the majors use to put players of a certain age/experience at a level. But even in an affiliated league with a set level, like high-A, the exact MLE varies with the talent present at a particular moment in time. The low-A Sally League might be a 0.67 this year, and a 0.71 next.

[Kemp]

Soooooo... any of the beta testers or anyone on the dev team want to comment on these things yet? I'm starting to get the same bad feeling I had last year in regards to MLE's and PCM's. That is, that we'll never get a clear, official response explaining how they work.

[Elendil]

The testing that's been done so far seems to indicate that MLE's and PCM's do exactly the same thing, but Markus says that MLE's should only affect the Big Bang, so re-testing is on the agenda.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Elendil

The testing that's been done so far seems to indicate that MLE's and PCM's do exactly the same thing, but Markus says that MLE's should only affect the Big Bang, so re-testing is on the agenda.

Minor league MLEs only affect the big-bang.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kemp

I'm starting to get the same bad feeling I had last year in regards to MLE's and PCM's. That is, that we'll never get a clear, official response explaining how they work.

I'm getting a bad feeling that your bad feeling is right.

[BballDoc]

Right now, since I know very little about MLE or PCM's, I plan on not touching them.

I'll just leave them be as is.....

[Elendil]

All right, two of us have been independently testing MLE's and PCM's today. We have found the same result: In independent major leagues, both MLE's and PCM's affect both ratings and talents similarly, in both the Big Bang and future draft classes, except that MLE's seem to impact hitters' Avoid Ks and pitchers' Control and Movement much more strongly than do PCM's. However, MLE's in affiliated minor leagues affect only the Big Bang, which makes sense, because it should be the major league standard that affects the quality of draft classes for that major league system.

Basically, the only reason you would want to touch PCM's is to create independent major leagues alongside a "benchmark" major league, and the only reason you would want to touch MLE's is to set up a fictional minor league system. If you want to adjust stats, just use league totals.

For independent major leagues, I would recommend using PCMs rather than MLE's for more predictable ratings and talents ratios. However, there is a problem with independent major leagues in that league totals don't work right for them. I'm trying to get Markus to address that issue.

[discodude5]

for anyone trying to figure out the exact meaning of pcm's and mle you may want one of these

[Kemp]

So to try to summarize what you're saying with an example.....

Primary "Major" league - no reason to touch PCM or MLE, if you want to reduce HR (or whatever) you do it using league totals.

3 minor league levels affiliated to the "Major Lg" - Use MLE's to reduce current ratings upon creation (Big Bang) and leave PCM's alone. Same deal as above if you wanted to reduce a particular stat level (homers, for example).

Independent league - if you want it to be of a lesser caliber (as compared to the primary Major lg) use PCM's to impact the current ratings (upon creation) and future talent ratings. So if you made the PCM's .5, the league would theoretically be half as "good" as the primary major league.

Sound right? Do you know if the computer GM's look at either the MLE's or PCM's to make any kind of decisions? Or do they simply look at player ratings? For example, if a player in an independent league is hitting .400/.500/.600 in an indy league with PCM's of .2, is it smart enough to consider that?

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Elendil

If you want to adjust stats, just use league totals.

For 2006 it was widely reported that you had to adjust league totals in reverse (ie. increase them to decrease resulting stats). Is that still true in 2007?

[NomarHits400]

Originally Posted by Curtis

For 2006 it was widely reported that you had to adjust league totals in reverse (ie. increase them to decrease resulting stats). Is that still true in 2007?

Yes- but the modifiers were added for 2006- and work more intuitively; i.e., if you want to reduce homeruns 10% you can change the HR modifier form 1.0 to 0.9- without touching the league totals.

[ctorg]

For my independent minors, I leave the settings as they are and control talent levels through finances and a fast ride to free agency.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

Yes- but the modifiers were added for 2006- and work more intuitively;

Are these modifiers the PCMs (in other words, the things we we just advised above aren't usually worthwhile to tinker with)?

So, if we adjust the league totals in 2007, do we adjust them intuitively, or in reverse?

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by Kemp

So to try to summarize what you're saying with an example.....

Primary "Major" league - no reason to touch PCM or MLE, if you want to reduce HR (or whatever) you do it using league totals.

3 minor league levels affilicated to the "Major Lg" - Use MLE's to reduce current ratings upon creation (Big Bang) and leave PCM's alone. Same deal as above if you wanted to reduce a particular stat level (homers, for example).

Independent league - if you want it to be of a lesser caliber (as compared to the primary Major lg) use PCM's to impact the current ratings (upon creation) and future talent ratings. So if you made the PCM's .5, the league would theoretically be half as "good" as the primary major league.

Sound right? Do you know if the computer GM's look at either the MLE's or PCM's to make any kind of decisions? Or do they simply look at player ratings? For example, if a player in an independent league is hitting .400/.500/.600 in an indy league with PCM's of .2, is it smart enough to consider that?

Yes, that's all right. I'll note that when you're editing or creating an affiliated minor league, PCM's are not shown, just MLE's, to prevent you from editing PCM's I guess. I believe that AI GM's principally use ratings for promotion & demotion, but some testing has shown that relatively high MLE's for minor leagues (compared to defaults: like .9 for AAA, .85 for AA, .8 for A) tends to lead to more players from lower draft rounds making the majors & more of those players doing well there - not certain exactly why, but perhaps MLE's do play a small role in AI player evaluation.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Are these modifiers the PCMs (in other words, the things we we just advised above aren't usually worthwhile to tinker with)?

So, if we adjust the league totals in 2007, do we adjust them intuitively, or in reverse?

No, the league totals modifiers are different from player creation modifiers. They're just more intuitive ways of changing your league totals. If you want to double homers in your league, you could cut the league HR totals by 50%, or you could raise the HR league totals modifier from 1.000 to 2.000: they do the same thing.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by ctorg

For my independent minors, I leave the settings as they are and control talent levels through finances and a fast ride to free agency.

Doable, but there are costs. You couldn't have a draft for that league, & you'd want to keep all the teams in the league empty of players at the Big Bang, so that they have to sign free agents.

[disposableheros]

Curtis, there are two ways to adjust the league totals...

1) adjust the totals themselves using the 'opposite' of what you'd expect (decrease to increase) - not my recommendation
2) adjust the totals modifiers (want 10% less HR? enter .900) - my recommendation