Non-roster invitees

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

I just don't see the point of having options in the game if they don't work properly.

There's no point having anything at all in a simulation game if it doesn't work properly. Things that don't work need to be fixed or removed, one or the other.

[endgame]

I'll probably look the, maybe properly, butthead by posting this and I've been purposely avoiding it. But this is one of a couple pet peeves of mine.
I have been trying since last year to find someone to give the concern credibility, including the general audience. While Nutlaw at least tried to assist in the early inquiry, many PMs to others went ignored until a TT was finally assigned in mid-January. Maybe v2007 will actually handle this better than I expect. If not, I hold high hopes it will be addressed in a patch.

Originally Posted by endgame on 12-10-2006, at 09:04 PM

I still need someone to explain this to me. Sometimes the simple escapes me, and maybe it's there. But I have a league with NO Service Times. All players start with a clean slate. Whether in ST or in season, players with or without major league contracts end up on waivers when being sent to the minor league levels.

I understand, I think correctly, that a player with a major league contract would clear waivers IF he's also being removed from the 40-man, but he's not. He's simply being sent to the minors with - given no service time - I would think, no right of refusal.

Wrong? Something fishy? Probably unimportant to the mainstream? Just let me know. When it's been brought up or PM'd about in the past, I've never received any definitive position or answer. Thanks in advance.

from this thread, now in Logged Issues, for anyone interested:
Waivers with No Service Times

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by endgame

I'll probably look the, maybe properly, butthead by posting this and I've been purposely avoiding it. But this is one of a couple pet peeves of mine.
I have been trying since last year to find someone to give the concern credibility, including the general audience. While Nutlaw at least tried to assist in the early inquiry, many PMs to others went ignored until a TT was finally assigned in mid-January. Maybe v2007 will actually handle this better than I expect. If not, I hold high hopes it will be addressed in a patch.



from this thread, now in Logged Issues, for anyone interested:
Waivers with No Service Times

I have been trying to reproduce this in 2007, and so far no luck... which may mean that your problem is fixed.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

MLB:

out of options, on the 40-man, in the minors at the end of ST = irrevocable waivers
out of options, on the 40-man, sent to the minors at the end of ST = irrevocable waivers
options remain, on the 40-man, sent to the minors at the end of ST = use an option
options remain, removed from the 40-man and sent to the minors at the end of ST = waivers

This is my understanding as well. The last item on the above list is also known as outrighting a player, as in he's being assigned to the minor league club outright and the major league club cannot recall him later. Outrighting a player uses, not surprisingly, Outright Waivers (except between Sept. 1 and the 30th day of the subsequent season when Special Waivers are used, which are basically the same thing).

Note that a player being outrighted for a second or subsequent time in his career has the choice of refusing the assignment and immediately becoming a free agent. If he elects free agency, he does not get any termination pay.

In terms of options, some players can get a fourth option year under certain circumstances. Also, a player with three or more years of major league service has to clear waivers before being optioned to the minors, even if he has option years left.

[t-bone shuffle]

I'd just like to add the reminder that this issue is compounded by the original title thread and the inability to have NRI's coupled with the fact that Spring Training is limited to the 40 man roster.

I'd really like to see the whole process work properly.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

I'd really like to see the whole process work properly.

A lot of us would. Maybe this can be a goal for 2008.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

There's no point having anything at all in a simulation game if it doesn't work properly. Things that don't work need to be fixed or removed, one or the other.

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

I'd really like to see the whole process work properly.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

A lot of us would. Maybe this can be a goal for 2008.

I actually had to read your last post twice. Did you get the Xanax refilled, or are you specifically addressing the NRI? If not, I'm surpised you're not championing (try to say that word aloud) this for inclusion a patch.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by endgame

Did you get the Xanax refilled

Nope. In fact I had to look up what it was. I just take aspirin.

By the way, were you actually disagreeing or just sort of semi-flaming?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Nope. In fact I had to look up what it was. I just take aspirin.

By the way, were you actually disagreeing or just sort of semi-flaming?

Nah, no flame, semi or otherwise. I was agreeing with the idea that the NRI concept was one that would probably have to wait, but advocating - along with you - mechanics for exisiting elements work properly. The latter, I would hope to be addressed in a patch if found to be problematic.

[The Wolf]

I think you just wrote that we agree about this, right?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I think you just wrote that we agree about this, right?

Uh, yes.

I was momentarily befuddled by your patience and my lack of it.

[Solonor]

Just to finish with my follow up on this... Most of it is just confirming what we already know.

Spring Training
Rosters expand to 40, but not all players are on "Active"...so, there is nothing that forces a player to trigger using options or to go on waivers. The AI mostly fills the Active Roster for Spring Training when it's running things, but that doesn't mean a human GM must.

Promoting a player who is not on the 40-man roster during Spring Training does not instantly use up an option, nor does it automatically assign the player a major league salary. However, since he is on the 40-man roster, if you try to pull him off it, he must go on waivers.

Demoting a player who is out of options will trigger waivers. Players who can refuse to be demoted during the regular season can refuse to be demoted during Spring Training.

Demoting a player at the end of Spring Training does use up an option year. If he's out of options and you try to demote him, he will have to go on waivers. So, it does work according to my TT! Yay!

From disposableheros post:

out of options, on the 40-man, in the minors at the end of ST = irrevocable waivers (NOPE)
out of options, on the 40-man, sent to the minors at the end of ST = irrevocable waivers (YES!)
options remain, on the 40-man, sent to the minors at the end of ST = use an option (YES!)
options remain, removed from the 40-man and sent to the minors at the end of ST = waivers (YES!)

Post Season Rosters
Yes, you are still required to "cut" your roster down to 25, rather than selecting 25 players from the 40-man roster. The rosters do not stay constant at 40 through the winter as they should.

All of the normal season rules for moving players are the same. If you try to "demote" a player without any options left, then he will have to go on waivers and anyone who gets demoted loses an option.

[btheflash]

Originally Posted by Solonor

Post Season Rosters
you are still required to "cut" your roster down to 25, rather than selecting 25 players from the 40-man roster. The rosters do not stay constant at 40 through the winter as they should.

Ugh. This was one of the more annoying features of past versions. It's disappointing that it is still this way.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by chimanbj

But if we can't play the spring training games, what's the point?

We could (and I do) play them in 2006; why do you think we won't be able to in 2007? (Did I miss a memo?)

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by Curtis

We could (and I do) play them in 2006; why do you think we won't be able to in 2007? (Did I miss a memo?)

Yeah, I was wondering where that comment came from, too. You can play Spring Training games out just like regular games.

[CobaltJays]

Originally Posted by Solonor

Spring Training
Rosters expand to 40, but not all players are on "Active"...so, there is nothing that forces a player to trigger using options or to go on waivers. The AI mostly fills the Active Roster for Spring Training when it's running things, but that doesn't mean a human GM must.
...
Demoting a player at the end of Spring Training does use up an option year. If he's out of options and you try to demote him, he will have to go on waivers. So, it does work according to my TT! Yay!

I can live with this. I play solo exclusively, so as long as the computer and I both use the full 40-man roster in spring training, it looks like there's little danger of players being kept indefinitely in the system. Considering I was pretty close to canceling my pre-order on Friday over this issue, this is good news.

For any other roster rules issues, I can just make a nuisance of myself in the technical support and suggestions forums.

Thanks for the help in getting this resolved.

[JTSMOOTH]

After hearing that it was supposedly fixed, in my excitement, i just about pre-ordered the game....

Now after reading that it actually is not fixed, its a good thing I decided to wait...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to sit this years version out...Thanx for putting for the effort in trying to get it fixed..

Maybe next year

[JTSMOOTH]

i tried to explain the situation to him, but the wiki cut-and-paster was adamant and Markus dosnt have the time to go fact checking. IINM, you were active in that discussion as well and i thought we had him won over, but

BTW, just curious who the Wiki cut and paster was? I'd like to invite him to do some research or at the very least, pay attention to the currently ongoing MLB spring training transactions......There are numerous websites, ala Baseball America you could probably email and get an answer..Hell you could probably even email the Padres GM and ask him, he has been known to answer emails from time to time..

JT

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by JTSMOOTH

After hearing that it was supposedly fixed, in my excitement, i just about pre-ordered the game....

Now after reading that it actually is not fixed, its a good thing I decided to wait...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to sit this years version out...Thanx for putting for the effort in trying to get it fixed..

Maybe next year

Everyone's got a right to their opinion, but I think that's a pretty nitpicking bit to skip purchasing this version over...especially considering it's no worse (and in some respects much better) than any previous version.

[JTSMOOTH]

Everyone's got a right to their opinion, but I think that's a pretty nitpicking bit to skip purchasing this version over...especially considering it's no worse (and in some respects much better) than any previous version.

I've been asking for this to be fixed since 6.5...So since this will now be the 3rd version of nothing happening here, it doesn't seem OOTP is really concerned with having a working 40 man roster/options/waivers. Markus can take the game in whatever direction he chooses obviously, but that doesn't mean I have to support it.

For me personally, having a half assed 40 man roster/options is silly, I don't see the point of even putting something in the game if your not going to do it correctly. Especially if your going to bill yourself as a "simulation".

It has been and continues to be a big disappointment I have with this game, so my only way to show my displeasure is by no longer purchasing the game.