Reliever Question

draven · 03-08-2007, 06:52 PM

Probably has been mentioned already, but i haven't been able to find it. My question is the endurance of pitchers a fixed number in this edition or will it be able to shrink or grow depending the role you place the pitcher in. Example would be you draft a MR with a 40ish endurance but you really want him as a starting pitcher so you put him in a starting role in the minors to and streech his endurance to 70ish.

ms2002 · 03-08-2007, 07:29 PM

I've always wanted to see this, but some people argue that it's not realistic. I personally agree with you and would like to see it that way. It always frustrates me to see a pitcher who pitches 4 shutout innings only to be taken out with about 70 pitches to his name. I'm under the opinion that ANY pitcher could pitch 90-100 pitches in a game - just not as effectively as others.

I think that endurance should be a measure of how long a pitcher can remain effective to his peak abilities, rather than acting as a time limit.

And I think that's realistic. I mean, let's face it, in real life, one has to be conditioned to start. Some people are more conditioned than others. Overall, I think endurance is a complex ability that I hope will be re-constructed for OOTP in the future.

CobaltJays · 03-08-2007, 07:47 PM

This is something I'd like to see as well. The primary reason for me is that the majority of major league relief pitchers are failed starting pitchers, and I'd like to see this modeled in some way (which is probably an entirely separate issue, requiring fewer middle relievers being drafted). I'd like to see two endurance ratings -- a short-term rating and a maximum one. A guy who has been a one-inning reliever for five years couldn't pitch 7 innings tomorrow, but he might be able to if you gradually stretched him out.

ms2002 · 03-08-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

A guy who has been a one-inning reliever for five years couldn't pitch 7 innings tomorrow, but he might be able to if you gradually stretched him out.

Exactly! This would be great to see modeled in OOTP.

CHCfan · 03-08-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

This is something I'd like to see as well. The primary reason for me is that the majority of major league relief pitchers are failed starting pitchers, and I'd like to see this modeled in some way (which is probably an entirely separate issue, requiring fewer middle relievers being drafted). I'd like to see two endurance ratings -- a short-term rating and a maximum one. A guy who has been a one-inning reliever for five years couldn't pitch 7 innings tomorrow, but he might be able to if you gradually stretched him out.

Two very big points right there, in my mind. I'd love to see that in OOTP

Whiteydog95 · 03-08-2007, 10:39 PM

Johnathan Papelbohn for the Red Sox comes to mind. Closed games last year will be in the rotation this year. I would like to see this as well.

ctorg · 03-09-2007, 08:50 AM

Yeah, I've always had issues with this in all computer baseball games. No one has ever quite modeled pitcher endurance very well. It's either too simplistic, too unrealistic, or too convoluted.

It seems to me that you should be able to stretch a reliever into a starter over the course of a season or two. You might bring down his effectiveness in doing so, but he could do it. On the other hand, lots of starters can step into relief roles and suddenly become much more dominant because they can use their best one or two pitches instead of going to lesser third or fourth ones.

andymac · 03-09-2007, 09:25 AM

No changes to endurance in this version. It has definitely been brought up in the beta forums though and there is some hope that it will be addressed in a future version.

The Wolf · 03-09-2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

This is something I'd like to see as well. The primary reason for me is that the majority of major league relief pitchers are failed starting pitchers, and I'd like to see this modeled in some way (which is probably an entirely separate issue, requiring fewer middle relievers being drafted). I'd like to see two endurance ratings -- a short-term rating and a maximum one.

This needs to be in 2008.

03-08-2007, 06:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
draven Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 23	Reliever Question Probably has been mentioned already, but i haven't been able to find it. My question is the endurance of pitchers a fixed number in this edition or will it be able to shrink or grow depending the role you place the pitcher in. Example would be you draft a MR with a 40ish endurance but you really want him as a starting pitcher so you put him in a starting role in the minors to and streech his endurance to 70ish.

03-08-2007, 07:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
ms2002 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 236	I've always wanted to see this, but some people argue that it's not realistic. I personally agree with you and would like to see it that way. It always frustrates me to see a pitcher who pitches 4 shutout innings only to be taken out with about 70 pitches to his name. I'm under the opinion that ANY pitcher could pitch 90-100 pitches in a game - just not as effectively as others. I think that endurance should be a measure of how long a pitcher can remain effective to his peak abilities, rather than acting as a time limit. And I think that's realistic. I mean, let's face it, in real life, one has to be conditioned to start. Some people are more conditioned than others. Overall, I think endurance is a complex ability that I hope will be re-constructed for OOTP in the future. Last edited by ms2002 : 03-08-2007 at 07:31 PM.

03-09-2007, 08:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9,416	Yeah, I've always had issues with this in all computer baseball games. No one has ever quite modeled pitcher endurance very well. It's either too simplistic, too unrealistic, or too convoluted. It seems to me that you should be able to stretch a reliever into a starter over the course of a season or two. You might bring down his effectiveness in doing so, but he could do it. On the other hand, lots of starters can step into relief roles and suddenly become much more dominant because they can use their best one or two pitches instead of going to lesser third or fourth ones. __________________ THE VERY US ARTISTS - A project for musicians and visual artists My music Currently reading: Thirteen by Richard Morgan "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

03-09-2007, 09:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,357	No changes to endurance in this version. It has definitely been brought up in the beta forums though and there is some hope that it will be addressed in a future version. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

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03-08-2007, 07:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
CobaltJays Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 420	This is something I'd like to see as well. The primary reason for me is that the majority of major league relief pitchers are failed starting pitchers, and I'd like to see this modeled in some way (which is probably an entirely separate issue, requiring fewer middle relievers being drafted). I'd like to see two endurance ratings -- a short-term rating and a maximum one. A guy who has been a one-inning reliever for five years couldn't pitch 7 innings tomorrow, but he might be able to if you gradually stretched him out.

03-08-2007, 10:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Whiteydog95 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 43	Johnathan Papelbohn for the Red Sox comes to mind. Closed games last year will be in the rotation this year. I would like to see this as well.