My final thoughts on the preview

[legendsport]

My preview ran out on Saturday, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the new sim after a day-plus of reflection. And I posted here in General Discussions so everyone could see it, not only those of us lucky enough to have received the preview version.

First off, I am very impressed by the new additions - I especially love the historical stuff.

As someone who primarily plays two ways - as an online commish and as dynasty writer (with both of those based primarily on historical play, using both the Lahman db and my own Japanese & Negro League dbs) - I tried to put the sim through the paces of what I do on a daily basis to see how it holds up in comparison to 6.5 (I did a dynasty - now completed - with 2006 and also ran one season of an online league which died primarily because my GMs did not like OOTP 2006 feeling it to be too much work).

What I found was that, at least from my standpoint as a commish, that the new sim is light-years ahead of 2006 in online play and because of the improved interface, should also be easier for online GMs to handle. I was also extremely impressed by the results of simming seasons - both in speed but also, most importantly for me, in accuracy. For these reasons I will definitely be pressing the GMs in my leagues to buy 2007.

I also wanted to run some sims using my Japan, Negro League and AAA databases. None of them are complete by any means, but I have enough done to run at least five continuous seasons. All worked perfectly, which has me extremely excited because it means that my thwarted online league from the 2006 version can live again. Like the "Six Million Dollar Man" it'll be better, stronger, faster...

For anyone who hasn't pre-ordered or may be sitting on the fence, I just want to say: this version is the best in the series, and I've bought every version since OOTP 2. For those who like the historical realism of something like DMB - OOTP 2007 has that. For those who love 6.5, OOTP 2007 has everything from that version, and a whole lot more. Sure, there are things that can be added, but this is, bar-none, the best baseball sim I've ever played - and I really, to be honest, did not like OOTP 2006. But I'm back on board now.

Which leaves me with one final problem. Which idea should I use for my first new online league in OOTP 2007? I can't decide if I want to start one beginning in the late 60s or early 70s with full financials, real AAA and Japanese players (in addition to MLB of course), which was my original intention. Or should I go with something earlier: a post-WWII league starting in 1946 with the rebuilding Japanese leagues, the still mostly-indepedent PCL plus the IL and AA. Or maybe my failed 2006 league which was set in 1936 with the Japanese and Negro Leagues included. Or maybe even earlier: 1920, the dawn of the Negro Leagues, with Japan joining in when 1936 is reached, and possibly including the PCL or PCL, AA and IL?

So many possibilities...

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Thanks for the report legendsport! All these positive preview posts make the wait even more unbearable.

As for what league you should try first, my vote goes for 1946. Only because one of my early leagues will start there with MLB and USSR leagues.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

Thanks for the report legendsport! All these positive preview posts make the wait even more unbearable.

As for what league you should try first, my vote goes for 1946. Only because one of my early leagues will start there with MLB and USSR leagues.

Have you edited cities.txt to remove all those republics and put them back into the CCCP?

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

Thanks for the report legendsport! All these positive preview posts make the wait even more unbearable.

As for what league you should try first, my vote goes for 1946. Only because one of my early leagues will start there with MLB and USSR leagues.

I agree - March 23rd can't come quick enough. I have a feeling my wife is going to be threatening divorce by March 25th...

As for the leagues, I agree that 1946 is very intriguing - first year after the war, obviously. It saw the birth of the modern Japanese leagues (though they didn't split into Central and Pacific leagues til 1950), and was just before the big Mexican League spinoff attempt.

Best of luck with your USSR/MLB universe - sounds interesting. A baseball Cold War - good stuff.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Have you edited cities.txt to remove all those republics and put them back into the CCCP?

Not yet and I'm SO looking forward to it

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

Not yet and I'm SO looking forward to it

I've got it about 2/3rds done, somewhere. I'll go look for it at home tonight.

[Kelric]

It's good to see a number of the previewers having said that they didn't enjoy OOTP'06 at all but that this year's version has turned the series back in the right direction. That's what I like to hear.

I'd be interested in joining in the post-WW2 league with MLB, Japan, the PCL, etc., .etc. I've been dying for an online league ever since leaving the 4OTP and lately I've been wanting to do a semi-historical one.

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by Kelric

It's good to see a number of the previewers having said that they didn't enjoy OOTP'06 at all but that this year's version has turned the series back in the right direction. That's what I like to hear.

I'd be interested in joining in the post-WW2 league with MLB, Japan, the PCL, etc., .etc. I've been dying for an online league ever since leaving the 4OTP and lately I've been wanting to do a semi-historical one.

I'll definitely let you know when the league's ready. The more I think about it, the more I think that's the one I'll do.

Right now, I'd lean towards MLB, all AAA players, plus AA and A ball with those leagues only having players who at least made AAA with ghost players filling out those levels. PCL could be completely independent, though a couple of teams were affiliated in RL, we could go alternate history and have the whole league independent since there are enough IL and AA teams for each MLB club to have a AAA affil. Japanese league as well - with 2007's ability to add leagues and do expansion, going to the 12-team setup for Japan in 1950 will be a snap.

Could be the most in-depth historical league so far...

[Kelric]

As long as I get the Red Sox.

[RANGER11JP]

Originally Posted by legendsport

My preview ran out on Saturday, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the new sim after a day-plus of reflection. And I posted here in General Discussions so everyone could see it, not only those of us lucky enough to have received the preview version.

First off, I am very impressed by the new additions - I especially love the historical stuff.

As someone who primarily plays two ways - as an online commish and as dynasty writer (with both of those based primarily on historical play, using both the Lahman db and my own Japanese & Negro League dbs) - I tried to put the sim through the paces of what I do on a daily basis to see how it holds up in comparison to 6.5 (I did a dynasty - now completed - with 2006 and also ran one season of an online league which died primarily because my GMs did not like OOTP 2006 feeling it to be too much work).

What I found was that, at least from my standpoint as a commish, that the new sim is light-years ahead of 2006 in online play and because of the improved interface, should also be easier for online GMs to handle. I was also extremely impressed by the results of simming seasons - both in speed but also, most importantly for me, in accuracy. For these reasons I will definitely be pressing the GMs in my leagues to buy 2007.

I also wanted to run some sims using my Japan, Negro League and AAA databases. None of them are complete by any means, but I have enough done to run at least five continuous seasons. All worked perfectly, which has me extremely excited because it means that my thwarted online league from the 2006 version can live again. Like the "Six Million Dollar Man" it'll be better, stronger, faster...

For anyone who hasn't pre-ordered or may be sitting on the fence, I just want to say: this version is the best in the series, and I've bought every version since OOTP 2. For those who like the historical realism of something like DMB - OOTP 2007 has that. For those who love 6.5, OOTP 2007 has everything from that version, and a whole lot more. Sure, there are things that can be added, but this is, bar-none, the best baseball sim I've ever played - and I really, to be honest, did not like OOTP 2006. But I'm back on board now.

Which leaves me with one final problem. Which idea should I use for my first new online league in OOTP 2007? I can't decide if I want to start one beginning in the late 60s or early 70s with full financials, real AAA and Japanese players (in addition to MLB of course), which was my original intention. Or should I go with something earlier: a post-WWII league starting in 1946 with the rebuilding Japanese leagues, the still mostly-indepedent PCL plus the IL and AA. Or maybe my failed 2006 league which was set in 1936 with the Japanese and Negro Leagues included. Or maybe even earlier: 1920, the dawn of the Negro Leagues, with Japan joining in when 1936 is reached, and possibly including the PCL or PCL, AA and IL?

So many possibilities...

legendsport,

Can you tell me how to create a database? Will yours be available at some point. Can one be made from fictional players?

JP

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by RANGER11JP

legendsport,

Can you tell me how to create a database? Will yours be available at some point. Can one be made from fictional players?

JP

The answers to the last two questions are both yes.

My databases will be available when they're finished - which could be awhile. The problem is that I do enough to get a league or dynasty or whatever rolling, and then add to it as that league/dynasty progresses. So I have pieces, but not complete dbs that someone could use to do say, a full-blown replay of the history of Japanese baseball. For example, right now I have Negro League db chunks covering the 1890s and early 1900s, some of the 20s and some of the late 30s and early 40s - all built for leagues or dynasties.

Eventually I plan on being able to put complete databases for Japan and Negro Leagues and at least AAA up for the community to use.

You can make a database with fictional players - you just need to format it the same way as Lahman. To get the game to import it though, you'd have to import them by hand individually unless you're assigning fictional players to a real-life MLB structure. It's a lot of work, and if you make a mistake, you're going to see some wonky ratings, but it is possible to do.

As for explaining how to do it, well it can be explained, but probably not in an individual post. Maybe someday I can put together a "how-to" of creating a database from scratch. An overly simply tactic: just mimic the structure of the Lahman database exactly, and you're on your way.

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by Kelric

As long as I get the Red Sox.

I'm sure that could be arranged...

[swampdragon]

If you wanted to start a league in 18xx with real players, how would you go about it?

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

If you wanted to start a league in 18xx with real players, how would you go about it?

I actually did try to crank up a historical league starting in 1871 during my preview, but scrapped it because it was, to be honest, taking too long (I didn't want to use up my five days building a league).

There might be an easier way, but what I did was start a fictional league, edit the team names to reflect the NA of 1871, edit the league totals to actual 1871 NA totals, use Raidergoo's financial table to set the financial numbers (the game won't let you do it automatically for any season before 1901), and then the really fun parts began. First, after starting up, I had to release all the fictional players and delete them - that's easy. Then I had to import the real guys. Also easy, but tedious because you have to do it one-by-one. There's a workaround that involves editing the Lahman db to fool the sim into thinking these guys played in the 20th century, but I went with the simple method. I also pulled the as-played sked off Retrosheet and created that so that all nine teams could play (the sim won't create a schedule for a league with an odd number of teams).

I crapped out on importing the players. It was just taking more time than I wanted to spend. Once the 23rd rolls around, I will likely pick it up and continue.

That's how I did it and it would work for any other 19th century season, but like I said, it's not particularly simple.

[Curtis]

There's no chance that your AAA database will include the Japanese minors, is there?

I don't really understand databases. I'm not going to ask you to explain them, but would it be possible to (for example):

Take a 1936-2007 Japanese database and have it import rookies from two or three years (say 1936/1972, or 1936/1960/1984) every season? Relatedly, can you import with an offset? If I wanted to start a 1946 Japanese league, but start with the 1936 players, for example.

Also, I know most databases can be set up to automatically import players to their rookie team. What happens if the team they imported into historically has moved and/or changed names.

Example: I start with a 1901 historical American League, but decide not to shift any francises. Would the players that should go to New York in 1903 'know' to assign themselves to the Baltimore franchise instead? What happens in the 1950s when the Browns don't move to Baltimore? Do the players that should be going to the team named Baltimore Orioles in 1901 (and still is) now go to the team that should've been named Baltimore Orioles in 1953 (but is still named St. Louis Browns)? Or, would the DB be looking for a team number, which presumably doesn't change, rather than a name?

[Kelric]

I really hope OOTP/the community gets around to giving us 1871 to 1900 without all these workarounds.

[swampdragon]

None of that sounds particularly difficult. Just tedious. Would I still be able to use the recalc options? I think the schedules would be the worst. Is there a fast way to convert Retrosheet as-played schedules to OOTP2007 format?

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by Curtis

There's no chance that your AAA database will include the Japanese minors, is there?

No, I haven't been able to find any historical info on the Ni-Gun league.

Originally Posted by Curtis

I don't really understand databases. I'm not going to ask you to explain them, but would it be possible to (for example):

Take a 1936-2007 Japanese database and have it import rookies from two or three years (say 1936/1972, or 1936/1960/1984) every season? Relatedly, can you import with an offset? If I wanted to start a 1946 Japanese league, but start with the 1936 players, for example.

You'd have to manually edit the database to get any of that to work, or import the players by hand, either of which would be time consuming.

Originally Posted by Curtis

Also, I know most databases can be set up to automatically import players to their rookie team. What happens if the team they imported into historically has moved and/or changed names.

Example: I start with a 1901 historical American League, but decide not to shift any francises. Would the players that should go to New York in 1903 'know' to assign themselves to the Baltimore franchise instead? What happens in the 1950s when the Browns don't move to Baltimore? Do the players that should be going to the team named Baltimore Orioles in 1901 (and still is) now go to the team that should've been named Baltimore Orioles in 1953 (but is still named St. Louis Browns)? Or, would the DB be looking for a team number, which presumably doesn't change, rather than a name?

That's an interesting question, and I'm not 100% sure of the answer. The team table in the Lahman db has a "franchiseID" which links the Browns to the Orioles, the Highlanders to the original AL Orioles and so on. I'm not sure if the sim uses the franchise ID or team ID for assigning rookies. My guess is teamID, but not having tried it, I'm not sure that's the case.

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by Kelric

I really hope OOTP/the community gets around to giving us 1871 to 1900 without all these workarounds.

A lot of people - myself included - would love to see that. I'm sure it presents a huge challenge for Markus because of the very fluid state of the game before 1901. Even if you ignore the various rule changes, teams moved around a lot, folded midseason, third leagues popping up all over the place - basically it was a mess. It sure would be fun to play that era though...

[legendsport]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

None of that sounds particularly difficult. Just tedious. Would I still be able to use the recalc options? I think the schedules would be the worst. Is there a fast way to convert Retrosheet as-played schedules to OOTP2007 format?

I *think* the recalc works - the info is in the .txt files the game uses for that stuff, so I'm guessing it does work. Since I didn't get to actually simming any 19th century games, I can't be sure.

The schedule is a bit of a bear. I must defer to the acknowledged grand master of the schedule, LGO, for a definitive answer on the best way to knock together a schedule using Retrosheet. I know that he has a bunch of seasons, including 19th century stuff, that'd he probably be willing to share if you asked.

Personally I used Excel, did a lot of find-and-replace and it took maybe a half-hour to do the 1871 schedule. That's not bad, but of course the nine teams each played an average of maybe 25 games.