Cal Ripkin

[Curtis]

It's not like you misspelled 'Fydrich' or 'Wambsgans'; now THAT would be a crime!

[masoo]

Originally Posted by flitchplate

But my boy Cal did the impossible......the amazing. I was at the game and let me tell you something.........there was nothing stupid about it. Baseball finally turned around after the miraculous acheivement.

I agree with you. It was the impossible, it was amazing, and it inspired a lot of people, perhaps more people than any other baseball accomplishment in our lifetime.

But if I were his manager, I would have sat him down a few times a year, because I'd be more interested in winning games than I would be in doing something amazing. Perhaps it comes from being a Giants fan since 1958 ... we've seen some of the greatest players in the history of baseball, but we've never seen our team win the World Series. The most impossible, amazing, inspirational thing I will ever see on a baseball field, if I live long enough, will be the moment when the Giants win the World Series.

And I am not convinced that running a guy out year after year, game after game, is good for his overall production, which means I am not convinced it's good for the team. So I'm not trying to take away the pleasure he gave you and so many other fans, but he should have been rested once in awhile.

[Curtis]

I've been on both sides of this issue. You know, he did have something like seventeen or so rest days every year. And his production didn't fall off until he got to an age where it likely would've anyway.

On the other hand, common wisdom is that everyone needs to skip at least a couple of games a year, even when they're young. Willie Randolph is insisting that Wright (Mets third baseman) sit out rare games. This drives Wright nuts because he wants to play EVERY day, and it drives the commentators nuts because they want him to sit out about ten a year.

Some players claim that they'd kill for more days off, others never want to rest, and some want to have it both ways. Ernie Banks would beg Leo Durocher for days off because his knees were killing him, then when Leo sat him, he'd tell the reporters that he really wanted to play, but it was Leo's decision. It's fun to argue about.

[JHruska]

Originally Posted by masoo

And I am not convinced that running a guy out year after year, game after game, is good for his overall production, which means I am not convinced it's good for the team. So I'm not trying to take away the pleasure he gave you and so many other fans, but he should have been rested once in awhile.

Absolutely correct. In the last half of his career, Ripken had streaks where he was hitting in the .150s and making 1.5 errors a game, yet still refused to sit even though he was hurting his team because he wanted the record, and his manager admitted to the press that no matter what he wasn't going to sit Ripken unless Ripken asked him to sit him. It was without a doubt killing his production and his defensive play, but his selfishness and his manager's cowardliness kept him in the lineup.

[flitchplate]

Originally Posted by JHruska

Absolutely correct. In the last half of his career, Ripken had streaks where he was hitting in the .150s and making 1.5 errors a game, yet still refused to sit even though he was hurting his team because he wanted the record, and his manager admitted to the press that no matter what he wasn't going to sit Ripken unless Ripken asked him to sit him. It was without a doubt killing his production and his defensive play, but his selfishness and his manager's cowardliness kept him in the lineup.

I would ask you to point me to statistics that show he had a "streak" where is batted .150 and made 1.5 errors a game. I mean if you are going to take a three game period when he was in a slump I do not see how that counts for anything.

Show me 30 days at those statistical levels and I will agree with you.

[zukes]

Yeah, I don't recall him slumping that badly. Hell, he always ripped the Jays and the O's and Jays play a lot. Therefore his slumps couldn't have lasted very long.

[Gastric ReFlux]

I remember at least 2 errors a game when Ripken was so tired he looked like a sack of potatoes hanging out near 2nd base.

[ctorg]

The game's lack of ability to simulate a Ripken or Gehrig streak may actually be an inability to simulate a human flaw. I'm sure there are games when those guys should have sat, when other players would have sat, but they didn't. Especially Ripken, who was trying to break Gehrig's record. Any manager who forced him to stop would have been hated by fans. It's a lot of pressure to keep a guy in there no matter what.

[masoo]

Originally Posted by flitchplate

I would ask you to point me to statistics that show he had a "streak" where is batted .150 and made 1.5 errors a game. I mean if you are going to take a three game period when he was in a slump I do not see how that counts for anything.

Show me 30 days at those statistical levels and I will agree with you.

I'm not the original poster and am not making claims like the above, but I can offer some statistics that might be relevant:

Ripken's career OPS by month:

Mar/Apr: .790
May: .793
Jun: .812
Jul: .820
Aug: .766
Sep/Oct: .748

During his career, Ripken's Sep/Oct numbers: .262/.320/.428. For his career overall: .276/.340/.447.

Perhaps all players have lower numbers in Sep/Oct, but if that's the case, all the more reason to give a guy some rest during the season.

One argument that is made is that whoever took Ripken's place on his days off would have likely hit much worse than .262, so that overall, a tired Ripken was still preferable to a healthy substitute. I don't have a quick answer for that one. Ripken did hit pretty well in his postseason appearances, so it didn't seem to hurt him in that regard.

[briantheiceberg]

Originally Posted by flitchplate

Whoooooaaaaaahhhhhhhh they Nelly..........

I have not participated in this forum since..... it says February of 2005. So you know it took a LOT for me to come out of retirement.

But my boy Cal did the impossible......the amazing. I was at the game and let me tell you something.........there was nothing stupid about it. Baseball finally turned around after the miraculous acheivement.

Of course it took Bonds, McGwire, et all and a pile of illegal substance to squash Basball back into the ground. But lets not forget what this man meant to baseball.....

Cal didn't turn baseball around. Sorry. What he did was nice and all for a personal achievement, but nothing more. I had perfect attendance from K to 8th grade. Big deal.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by briantheiceberg

Cal didn't turn baseball around. Sorry. What he did was nice and all for a personal achievement, but nothing more. I had perfect attendance from K to 8th grade. Big deal.

It's a little harder to be good enough to warrant playing in the majors every day for 20 years than it is to not get expelled from the 4th grade.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by JHruska

Absolutely correct. In the last half of his career, Ripken had streaks where he was hitting in the .150s and making 1.5 errors a game, yet still refused to sit even though he was hurting his team because he wanted the record, and his manager admitted to the press that no matter what he wasn't going to sit Ripken unless Ripken asked him to sit him. It was without a doubt killing his production and his defensive play, but his selfishness and his manager's cowardliness kept him in the lineup.

dola, The last half of Cal's career was 1992-2001. Over that period he made 119 errors in 1339 games in the field. That works out to 0.09 errors per game.

If he had streaks where he was making errors at 17 times his average rate they must have been awfully short.

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

It's a little harder to be good enough to warrant playing in the majors every day for 20 years than it is to not get expelled from the 4th grade.

I don't know, it's pretty darn difficult to not miss a single day of school from Kindergarten thru 8th grade. In fact, I bet there are proportionally fewer people in the US who can legitimately claim to have done that than there are baseball players who can claim to have played as many days as Gehrig.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

dola, The last half of Cal's career was 1992-2001. Over that period he made 119 errors in 1339 games in the field. That works out to 0.09 errors per game.

If he had streaks where he was making errors at 17 times his average rate they must have been awfully short.

Game. Set. Match.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I don't know, it's pretty darn difficult to not miss a single day of school from Kindergarten thru 8th grade. In fact, I bet there are proportionally fewer people in the US who can legitimately claim to have done that than there are baseball players who can claim to have played as many days as Gehrig.

I would think every school in America had at least one kid who did that. I was perfect for five consecutive years, and when I picked up my certificate I was upstaged by a pair of twins who were collecting for seven and eight years. Nine just doesn't impress me. Being one of the two guys in baseball history who've done it DOES impress me.

What are the records (in terms of years) for hockey, basketball and football?

[zukes]

NHL is twelve or so. Doug Jarvis.

Football is 17 years I think by an o-line man.

Brett Favre's streak is pretty impressive, right up there with Ripken and Gehrig.

Basketball...wait who cares?

[JHruska]

Here's the one I remember best (because it waswhen Ray Miller informed the world that he wouldn't sit Ripken, no matter what, until Ripken came and asked him to sit), but there were others. At the time, Ripken had a back problem that was causing him a lot of pain and some numbness in his fingers. And he still wouldn't sit.

In the 18 games from July 3-23, 1997, Ripken went 12 for 72 (.167), with 2 walks, and no homers. This wasn't one of the error-heavy stretches, but the ones of those that I remember came in has latter days at SS, and he was already at 3B in 97. Still, this was a guy who was injured, who was hurting his team very, very badly, and who still refused to sit, choosing his own personal glory over the good of the team. To make it even worse, this was after he had already broken the record, and was just extending his own every night. And he was batting fifth that whole time.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by JHruska

And he was batting fifth that whole time.

Ripken has some responsibility for this, but the real villain in the piece is Ray Miller. He abdicated his responsibility as a manager, and for that he deserves a long time in a warm place.

Thank you zukes. For the NHL, Doug Jarvis at barely over 12 seasons (wimp). For the NBA, A. C. Green just over 14 1/2. For the NFL, punter Jeff Feagles at 19 seasons… and counting. Now THAT'S impressive!

[ctorg]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I would think every school in America had at least one kid who did that. I was perfect for five consecutive years, and when I picked up my certificate I was upstaged by a pair of twins who were collecting for seven and eight years. Nine just doesn't impress me. Being one of the two guys in baseball history who've done it DOES impress me.

What are the records (in terms of years) for hockey, basketball and football?

Wow! To my knowledge, I've never met anyone who didn't miss a day of school from K-8. I had perfect attendance for 4th grade and it was a big deal. I guess kids don't get very sick where you're from. Perhaps you can make an elixir from your drinking water and market it.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by ctorg

Perhaps you can make an elixir from your drinking water and market it.

Well… I AM the Wizard of Watertown.