There's No Snoop Dog in Baseball

[treedom]

Originally Posted by Mister Bogart

By the corporate nerds...I am referring to the people who make what mainstream America is supposed to be accepting as Sports video games. These are the efforts that have been hijacked by the consoles and have systematically stopped producing quality titles for the pc. They care more about what someone can rent for a week and get sick of [see footnote 17-4b page 13]...than what someone will buy and actually enjoy. The reason I refer to them as nerds is not because of their academic skill but rather there complete dungeon master lack of knowledge in sports and thus proving they were getting wedgies from the very people in the games they are trying to produce. [736 pg. 73, appendix 15]

These braniacs would rather give us games where we can shoot hookers or replay World War II than create a decent sports game [The Gamers Guide to Hooker Killing and World War II genre shooters, page 16], so when we do actually get their yearly "obiglatory" effort...we end up with a game with fancy menus and for some bizarre reason...songs that sound like what you will hear in the parking lot of Wal-mart jamming from the back of some 14 year-olds car at full blast. Nothing says baseball like Snoop Dog. [Snoop's latest CD, Chillin at the Ballpark, Song 3]

[chimanbj]

The console has certainly driven the industry toward games that emphasize style over substance. But honestly, most of the games on the consoles and PCs are really marketed toward the teen and early 20's crowd. If you're 30 and above, there's not a lot to choose from.
But boards like these show that there is a passion for solid games that focus on substance first, and style second. Personally, I don't care a lot about in-game graphics. My thought is, baseball is about statistics, not about the look of the game. If you have a pretty picture, but the underlying stats engine is subpar, that game will not be played long. But games like OOTP, who have a stats engine that is among the best in the genre (quick, name me two other games that do stats better, if you can), will continue to flourish.
I miss High Heat 2003 (not the crap that was HH2004) because it was close to bringing both sides together. But the stats engine was too incomplete, and the bugs....
Consoles are great. And for a mindless game of baseball, I wouldn't mind picking up a good-looking title. But if I want to truly SIMULATE baseball, and create what-if scenarios, the console is not going to do it. It's not intended, I don't think, for that type of gaming. It's for arcade games, not for simulations.... Ever try to play The Sims on a console? (rolling eyes)

[dankrzyz]

I loooooove OOTP, but every so often I get an itch to jump onto the field in an arcade game. It's fun to hit and throw for a couple games, but for a long-term challenge, nothing beats the text-based dynasty.

[Mister Bogart]

Originally Posted by chimanbj

The console has certainly driven the industry toward games that emphasize style over substance. But honestly, most of the games on the consoles and PCs are really marketed toward the teen and early 20's crowd. If you're 30 and above, there's not a lot to choose from.
But boards like these show that there is a passion for solid games that focus on substance first, and style second. Personally, I don't care a lot about in-game graphics. My thought is, baseball is about statistics, not about the look of the game. If you have a pretty picture, but the underlying stats engine is subpar, that game will not be played long. But games like OOTP, who have a stats engine that is among the best in the genre (quick, name me two other games that do stats better, if you can), will continue to flourish.
I miss High Heat 2003 (not the crap that was HH2004) because it was close to bringing both sides together. But the stats engine was too incomplete, and the bugs....
Consoles are great. And for a mindless game of baseball, I wouldn't mind picking up a good-looking title. But if I want to truly SIMULATE baseball, and create what-if scenarios, the console is not going to do it. It's not intended, I don't think, for that type of gaming. It's for arcade games, not for simulations.... Ever try to play The Sims on a console? (rolling eyes)

Sims on the Consoles is a great example. Maybe it is good that they aren't trying to do simulation on consoles.

[masoo]

"There's No Snoop Dog in Baseball"

When was the last time you attended an actual baseball game? I'm a season ticket holder to the Giants, and there hasn't been a game without hip hop music for more than a decade. When Barry Bonds comes to the plate late in a game, and the sound system gives out "The Next Episode" by Dr. Dre (featuring Snoop, last name spelled Dogg, BTW), I don't suppose anyone other than Bruce Jenkins complains about that darned hip hop music, they're too excited, and if you stopped them on the streets and played them the first bars of "Next Episode," they'd say "hey, Barry's up!"

And no, I'm not a 14-year-old kid hanging out at Wal-Mart, I'm 53 years old and have been playing baseball sims since 1960. I've never owned a console in my entire life, but my son does. He knows his baseball, he was raised on sabermetrics, but when he cranks up his PS3 on his 56" widescreen TV, he wants something other than OOTP. And he likes hearing hip hop, and if he doesn't, I suspect he turns off the music, which is always an option, at least in the "console-style" games I've played on my PC. And if he wants an OOTP-style experience, he turns on his computer.

Beyond that, what 8Ball said.

[Xenimus0]

Originally Posted by masoo

"There's No Snoop Dog in Baseball"

When was the last time you attended an actual baseball game? I'm a season ticket holder to the Giants, and there hasn't been a game without hip hop music for more than a decade. When Barry Bonds comes to the plate late in a game, and the sound system gives out "The Next Episode" by Dr. Dre (featuring Snoop, last name spelled Dogg, BTW), I don't suppose anyone other than Bruce Jenkins complains about that darned hip hop music, they're too excited, and if you stopped them on the streets and played them the first bars of "Next Episode," they'd say "hey, Barry's up!"

And no, I'm not a 14-year-old kid hanging out at Wal-Mart, I'm 53 years old and have been playing baseball sims since 1960. I've never owned a console in my entire life, but my son does. He knows his baseball, he was raised on sabermetrics, but when he cranks up his PS3 on his 56" widescreen TV, he wants something other than OOTP. And he likes hearing hip hop, and if he doesn't, I suspect he turns off the music, which is always an option, at least in the "console-style" games I've played on my PC. And if he wants an OOTP-style experience, he turns on his computer.

Beyond that, what 8Ball said.

''

[Mister Bogart]

Originally Posted by masoo

"There's No Snoop Dog in Baseball"

When was the last time you attended an actual baseball game? I'm a season ticket holder to the Giants, and there hasn't been a game without hip hop music for more than a decade. When Barry Bonds comes to the plate late in a game, and the sound system gives out "The Next Episode" by Dr. Dre (featuring Snoop, last name spelled Dogg, BTW), I don't suppose anyone other than Bruce Jenkins complains about that darned hip hop music, they're too excited, and if you stopped them on the streets and played them the first bars of "Next Episode," they'd say "hey, Barry's up!"

And no, I'm not a 14-year-old kid hanging out at Wal-Mart, I'm 53 years old and have been playing baseball sims since 1960. I've never owned a console in my entire life, but my son does. He knows his baseball, he was raised on sabermetrics, but when he cranks up his PS3 on his 56" widescreen TV, he wants something other than OOTP. And he likes hearing hip hop, and if he doesn't, I suspect he turns off the music, which is always an option, at least in the "console-style" games I've played on my PC. And if he wants an OOTP-style experience, he turns on his computer.

Beyond that, what 8Ball said.

I am happy for you and your son. Enjoy those console games and going to the Giants games...and no sarcasm intended. Like I said...the problem is just as much with me having fallen out of the majority. I am more pining for the game I want to play than trying to deny anyone else the fun they are having. I think it is awesome that your son enjoys the games...he is who they are made for.

And yes...I have Season Tickets as well...and there is not quite as much hip-hop at our stadium...but in the spirit of not wanting to hear redneck jokes...I won't say which team.

[NomarHits400]

Originally Posted by Mister Bogart

I thought of many titles for this thread and I am going to try and not make a rant, but I am so ticked off at the corporate nerds that I have to get it off my chest. Basically...this year's group of "trash" that the corporate nerds put out is a sign that mainstream baseball console efforts are just going to continue to get worse and that they really just don't get it...

By the corporate nerds...I am referring to the people who make what mainstream America is supposed to be accepting as Sports video games. These are the efforts that have been hijacked by the consoles and have systematically stopped producing quality titles for the pc. They care more about what someone can rent for a week and get sick of...than what someone will buy and actually enjoy. The reason I refer to them as nerds is not because of their academic skill but rather there complete dungeon master lack of knowledge in sports and thus proving they were getting wedgies from the very people in the games they are trying to produce.

These braniacs would rather give us games where we can shoot hookers or replay World War II than create a decent sports game, so when we do actually get their yearly "obiglatory" effort...we end up with a game with fancy menus and for some bizarre reason...songs that sound like what you will hear in the parking lot of Wal-mart jamming from the back of some 14 year-olds car at full blast. Nothing says baseball like Snoop Dog.

The big question I have as of late is when did the consumers abandon this market? I know we all get older and that eventually they stop making things like they used to...but when did we all stop buying decent sports games? I was always willing to throw out my money each year for the next version of games if they actually got better...and listening to everyone on here give their timeline lists, it appears we all continued to support the genre. My only assumption is that they stopped wanting to make these games. Perhaps the nerds finally got into power and said...screw the jocks...let's make decent war strategy games and see if we can support our habit by getting then to buy the latest rehashed crap every year.

Perhaps the more realistic idea is that the consoles have killed sports gaming. The quest for seeing the sweat on Derek Jeter's brow has forced everyone to lose sight of the fact that it matters that the game actually looks and feels like baseball. I hardly feel like adding Ty Cobb to my team if everytime I go to a sub menu, I feel like I should be trying to protect him from getting shot by a pimp in the latest edition of GTA. It really makes you wonder if the guys that found their career on those G4 commercials ever play some of these console baseball games and say...this is really lame.

There have been some cool things on console games before. The career mode is kinda fun on some of them, but it is hardly interesting when you realize that you are going to see the same postgame animations for over 300 games before you make the big leagues. When EA had a franchise they had some cool stadium histories where you could actually take a historical tour of the Astrodome...at least someone had a concept that baseball actually has a history. The rest of the stuff they have produced has become a version of the NBA on the MLB, where they think we really care about what color a batting glove is...or what type of shoe someone is wearing.

I guess I am on this rant because I actually bought a console game the other day. Sometimes I want to get into the game and play, like I did back in the days of Hardball, and Tony Larussa...and even Real Sports Atari Baseball. When I think of all the information they can put on a playstation or xbox disc...it really ticks me off that they waste so much of it with sweat and hip-hop. Why didn't games continue to get better with the development of this new technology? Instead...the graphics have gotten better and the gaming experience has continued to get worse...and worse..and worse. Then I go on-line and read these reviews where these crappy games get 9.5 and 10...and you wonder...doesn't anyone expect more from baseball games than better graphics?

So....what does all this have to do with OOTP Baseball? I think this March 23 is going to be one of the most anticipated ones for me in a long time. I have been buying and playing baseball video games since I was in the fifth grade...and well...the baseball video game is almost dead. If it is not already dead...it is definitely flatlining. This community...the OOTP, the Puresim, the others...these are the only hope to keep this genre alive and rebuild the possibility that Sports games will have a shot. Maybe if games like OOTP continue to succeed...someone will figure out that we actually will buy decent sports games for the pc....and a good American football game will come around...

We never stopped caring about Baseball games...they did...and they saddest thing about it...we have all this money to spend...and they don't want it.

Thanks Markus...for keeping the hope alive...and here's to continuing to strive to make your product as good as it can be.

- Snoop Bogie Bogue

I do agree with this- and it's sad- but have you tried MLB07 The Show for the PS2? Granted- it's no OOTP- but I believe it plays the most realistic brand of console/PC baseball since at least MVP 2005 and the High Heat Series...I am actually shocked at how much I enjoy it (with a little tweaking)- it really seems as if SCEA has at least tried to cater somewhat to the more dedicated baseball enthusiast.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Mister Bogart

Actually that is kinda the question I have...do the consumers really want this junk or is something else driving the market. Would a statistically accurate baseball game with great graphics bomb? Are they not producing good sports games because they think they won't sell or because they don't have to produce good games...because they can get away with selling bad games because no one ever complains....

The simple answer is that they can get away with selling bad games. MLB 2K7 will sell well despite not being near what the old EA series was, and even that needed work. A statistically accurate baseball game with great graphics wouldn't bomb, because it has great graphics. The majority of console buyers, or game buyers in general, are fine with the accuracy we see in games now... they could care less if it gets more accurate... they just want good graphics.

This has little to do with someone trying to force "the rap" and bad games down our throat... it's what the market wants. Why the hell would game developers spend the time making the games we (OOTP fans) want, when the increase in sales would be minimum at best.

I know that all markets are based on consumers and all that...I am just voicing my frustration...because somewhere along the way...I moved into the minority....and it sure seems like I have a lot more money to spend then when I was in this "majority"

You probably do have more money, but you're still only going to buy one copy of MLB 2K7 is you were to purchase it. They don't care about that one sale, they care that they are pleasing the other thousands of baseball fans (and BTW they aren't any lesser of a fan because they aren't stat heads) that they are trying to please with their game.

My problem isn't really with hip-hop music...it is more of a reference to the way that console baseball games have started to try and look like they are some how making baseball as trendy as the NBA has become.

It's a natural progression of all that is pop culture. Kids aren't going to be all that impressed with a soundtrack of music from the 60's, 70's, or 80's... they want what they like, and they like hip-hop music. Again, they are trying to please their demo and they are doing that with these games... anyways it's easy enough to turn off, so it shouldn't be that much of a bother.

The MLB needs to become trendy, they need new fans... and you can't interest most kids with the MLB of years ago, you need some spark, something to draw their attention. People have very short attention spans now with so many things wanting to take their time, it's a fact we all have to live with. It annoys me too sometimes... like when the Jays changed their uniforms to the current one's, they did it to be more urban. But if that's what they got to do to get fans, I guess I have to live with it.

I guess it is an aquired taste...maybe they will make a game next with Babe Ruth becoming anorexic or Lou Gherig coming down with SARS just to make baseball more "modern"....and of course it will end up in the 5.00 bin at blockbuster with all this other junk...

Someone like to exaggerate.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Kids aren't going to be all that impressed with a soundtrack of music from the 60's, 70's, or 80's... they want what they like, and they like hip-hop music. Again, they are trying to please their demo and they are doing that with these games... anyways it's easy enough to turn off, so it shouldn't be that much of a bother.

Okay, granted you can turn it off, but why is there ANY music in ANY sports game? Aside from 'Take Me Out to the Ball Game" during the seventh inning stretch and "The Star-Spangled Banner" before the first pitch is thrown, sports really is not compatible with music.

[The Wolf]

I am also a console gamer and I like the music selection that comes with MLB07 The Show. It's

311 "Down"
Bishop Allen "Middle Management"
Cities in Dust "Emergency"
Death From Above 1979 "Little Girl"
Dixie Witch "Set the Speed"
Editors "Munich"
Five Horse Johnson "I Can't Shake It"
Greatdayforup "Man’s Ruin"
Les Savy Fav "Hold On To Your Genre"
Nerf Herder "High Five Anxiety"
Nirvana "Breed"
Sublime "Summertime"
Tapes 'n Tapes "Insistor"
The Jealous Sound "Naïve"
The M's "Plan Of The Man"
The Pixies "Mr. Grieves”"
The Specials "A Message to You Rudy"
The Stooges "I Feel Alright"
The Thermals "A Passing Feeling"
The Walkmen "The Rat"
Wolfmother "Woman"

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I am also a console gamer and I like the music selection that comes with MLB07 The Show. It's

311 "Down"
Bishop Allen "Middle Management"
Cities in Dust "Emergency"
Death From Above 1979 "Little Girl"
Dixie Witch "Set the Speed"
Editors "Munich"
Five Horse Johnson "I Can't Shake It"
Greatdayforup "Man’s Ruin"
Les Savy Fav "Hold On To Your Genre"
Nerf Herder "High Five Anxiety"
Nirvana "Breed"
Sublime "Summertime"
Tapes 'n Tapes "Insistor"
The Jealous Sound "Naïve"
The M's "Plan Of The Man"
The Pixies "Mr. Grieves”"
The Specials "A Message to You Rudy"
The Stooges "I Feel Alright"
The Thermals "A Passing Feeling"
The Walkmen "The Rat"
Wolfmother "Woman"

You must really love "wolfmother"

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

have you tried MLB07 The Show for the PS2? Granted- it's no OOTP- but I believe it plays the most realistic brand of console/PC baseball since at least MVP 2005 and the High Heat Series...I am actually shocked at how much I enjoy it (with a little tweaking)- it really seems as if SCEA has at least tried to cater somewhat to the more dedicated baseball enthusiast.

MLB07 The Show is one heck of a game. I think anyone who complains about there not being a decent mananger-mode graphical baseball game out there should sit down and play it, because in manager mode it WILL change their mind. Some of the managerial options it has won't be in OOTP for years and years, if ever.

It doesn't have one-pitch mode and it doesn't have any roster but the modern one, but it will still rock your house down.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I am also a console gamer and I like the music selection that comes with MLB07 The Show. It's

311 "Down"
Bishop Allen "Middle Management"
Cities in Dust "Emergency"
Death From Above 1979 "Little Girl"
Dixie Witch "Set the Speed"
Editors "Munich"
Five Horse Johnson "I Can't Shake It"
Greatdayforup "Man’s Ruin"
Les Savy Fav "Hold On To Your Genre"
Nerf Herder "High Five Anxiety"
Nirvana "Breed"
Sublime "Summertime"
Tapes 'n Tapes "Insistor"
The Jealous Sound "Naïve"
The M's "Plan Of The Man"
The Pixies "Mr. Grieves”"
The Specials "A Message to You Rudy"
The Stooges "I Feel Alright"
The Thermals "A Passing Feeling"
The Walkmen "The Rat"
Wolfmother "Woman"

Ooooooh! Some real nice tracks on there!

[Curtis]

Never heard of them. Any of them. Groups OR songs.

[treedom]

You've never heard of Nirvana?

[Curtis]

Isn't that a date-rape drug?

[glenmere14]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Never heard of them. Any of them. Groups OR songs.

Neither have I...

[Scoman]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I am also a console gamer and I like the music selection that comes with MLB07 The Show. It's


Nirvana "Breed"

Best Nirvana song ever.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Never heard of them. Any of them. Groups OR songs.

Man, to miss Nirvana you must have been living on Mars.