TRTR : Day 23

[Fallschirmjager]

Originally Posted by rahvin

If you look at the team history screen, you can see that he's a career .331 hitter with 4 of the top 10 single season averages, so it looks like he's lost his contact skills, but retained his batting eye. His last top ten average was 6 years previous, so I don't think it's all that unusual.

Oops
I did not even notice his age

I guess he has indeed lost alot of skill

[Kelric]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I agree completely. 2006 generated players who had ridiculous skill sets for their designated positions and I was hoping that 2007 would be better. With this it sure doesn't look that way.

For 2008, let's campaign for position generation templates so that the game generates middle infielders with middle infielder skill sets and corner outfielders with corner outfielder skill sets, etc.

Blah, where's the fun in that? Light hitting, speedy corner outfielders with great batting eyes are fine with me. I'll even take slow, hulking second basemen who hit 40 homers. It happens sometimes in the game, but not enough that I see it as a problem.

[bailey]

I was hoping to be able to sim until 1970 (to build history) with automatic expansion on and then take over a team. At that point, I wouldn't want any more expansion to occur, nor do I want the dh to be implemented. Any chance an auto expand option until year x can be added? I suppose the workaround is to just delete the teams that get added in 1977 etc.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kelric

Blah, where's the fun in that? Light hitting, speedy corner outfielders with great batting eyes are fine with me. I'll even take slow, hulking second basemen who hit 40 homers. It happens sometimes in the game, but not enough that I see it as a problem.

In 2006 over and over again I got catchers, second basemen, and shortstops who couldn't hit, which would have been fine, but they couldn't field or throw either, and players like that never make it as far as A ball. I got centerfielders who couldn't field or throw, and any CF like that you fully expect them to be able to hit a ton to make up for it, but nope, they couldn't hit either, or have great speed, but no. I got speedy RF and slow LF, RF with weak arms and LF with great arms. I got third basemen who had no arm strength, which I've never seen in the game. Basically the game generated far, far, far too many players who weren't believable in their alleged positions.

The game should have a template for each position and stay fairly close to it. And if a player can't hit, he should have a much greater chance of being a great fielder, and vice versa.

[The Wolf]

Dola, when I wrote "which I've never seen in the game," I meant in the real game, not in OOTP.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

If you are going to do position generation templates it simply MUST be an option.

[Tycobbler]

Originally Posted by bailey

I was hoping to be able to sim until 1970 (to build history) with automatic expansion on and then take over a team. At that point, I wouldn't want any more expansion to occur, nor do I want the dh to be implemented. Any chance an auto expand option until year x can be added? I suppose the workaround is to just delete the teams that get added in 1977 etc.

Well what you do is on Jan 1st of your decided year you wish to end auto expansion, you go to Game Setup, and under Options you uncheck the box that reads Automatically expand league.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I
snip...

But they are power hitters to a man

snip ...

Our friend Eric however has I think its safe to say almost no power
He is good for maybe 10-15 HR a year in modern baseball

snip ...


So we are left with a pretty negative conclusion
Eric Bolton could not exsist in real baseball and I would venture to guess has never exsisted in baseball besides perhaps the dead ball era
But even in that era you would be hard pressed to find a player who walked so much, struck out so much and had such a poor contact hitting skillset

I do not know if this player was edited or appears 'naturaly'
But it is a kind of a shame to be on the 2007 version of the game and still have players who have a skillset completly out of touch with reality

Here is a list of players from 1960-2004 who walked 100+ times, struck out 100+ times, and hit 20 or fewer HR. Not tons, but there are some. If I drop the criteria to go to rate stats rather than pure counting stats (so as to take the GM AI out of the mix), I find more ... and better matches. It is not beyond belief that a player like Eric Bolten could have existed, especially given Bolten's development path, which has already been commented upon.

1993 Phillips, Tony
1976 Wynn, Jimmy
1996 Phillips, Tony
1977 Tenace, Gene
1998 Henderson, Rickey
1971 Mays, Willie
2003 Abreu, Bobby
1999 Abreu, Bobby
1990 Tettleton, Mickey
2003 Cruz Jr., Jose
1974 Bailey,Bob


You can also look at guys like Kevin Youkillis (120K/91BB/13HR in 2006) as a player who exhibits average contact skills and gets most of his value from the walk and plays positions where offense is expected. Or Felipe Lopez (126K/86BB/11HR) as a guy who has mediocer contact skills, high Ks and BBs, and average defensive skills and survives.

Many of our problems with the game spring from our predisposed notions about what is real. The OOTPv2007 player/position profile is not bad overall. That said, the game's model can always be better.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

If you are going to do position generation templates it simply MUST be an option.

Of course, as people will demand 3B who can't throw the ball across the diamond.

[The Wolf]

Dola. They will also demand hitless, slow catchers and middle infielders who can't play their positions at all.

[RonCo]

Doing more looking, just because I get interested in these things....

From the above list, Tenace and Tettleton obviously had pop--but Tenace was not a Kingman/Dunn kind of guy, and Tettleton's power is heightened by his offensive environment. Both of those guys had very limited contact skills,and essentially moderate power. Cruz Jr had two HR years, but otherwise could not be considered a power guy. Tony Phillips is probably the best match of the list. Bob Bailey would have been a better match for Bolten, but his human managers kept him from getting the plate appearances he would have needed.

Abreu has line-drive power, and contact skills (Good gap and BABIP) to go with his great eye (Excellent Eye) and mega-strikeouts (ugly AvoidK). His All-Star HR performance aside, he has not shown great power (Average Power). That's an odd combination. Probably couldn't happen in a million years.

Wynn was obviously a power guy who fell on a bad year. Mays, of course a HoFer who was nearing the end. Henderson wasa truely unique player. Bolten is obviously no Rickey...but then, no one is.


Here are other modern players whose performance in 2006 struck Bolten at least a glancing blow:

Jhonny Peralta
Curtis Granderson
Hanley Ramirez
Tadahito Iguchi
Chone Figgins
Melvin Mora
Ryan Freel

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Dola. They will also demand hitless, slow catchers and middle infielders who can't play their positions at all.

Hey Wolf my 2006 league generates too many hitting catchers with cannons for arms, I'll sell you some!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Hey Wolf my 2006 league generates too many hitting catchers with cannons for arms, I'll sell you some!

LOL, that would be funny. Transaction: Benny "The Cannon" Ayala, C, puchased online from the ZBL..."

[darkenigma510]

Originally Posted by Muppetus Galacticus

If you are going to do position generation templates it simply MUST be an option.

options should be an option

[Fallschirmjager]

Originally Posted by RonCo

Here is a list of players from 1960-2004 who walked 100+ times, struck out 100+ times, and hit 20 or fewer HR. Not tons, but there are some. If I drop the criteria to go to rate stats rather than pure counting stats (so as to take the GM AI out of the mix), I find more ... and better matches. It is not beyond belief that a player like Eric Bolten could have existed, especially given Bolten's development path, which has already been commented upon.

1993 Phillips, Tony
1976 Wynn, Jimmy
1996 Phillips, Tony
1977 Tenace, Gene
1998 Henderson, Rickey
1971 Mays, Willie
2003 Abreu, Bobby
1999 Abreu, Bobby
1990 Tettleton, Mickey
2003 Cruz Jr., Jose
1974 Bailey,Bob


You can also look at guys like Kevin Youkillis (120K/91BB/13HR in 2006) as a player who exhibits average contact skills and gets most of his value from the walk and plays positions where offense is expected. Or Felipe Lopez (126K/86BB/11HR) as a guy who has mediocer contact skills, high Ks and BBs, and average defensive skills and survives.

Many of our problems with the game spring from our predisposed notions about what is real. The OOTPv2007 player/position profile is not bad overall. That said, the game's model can always be better.

I dont mind being proved wrong

Bolton looks like a fun player
And I completly missed his age
If he was 27 and had that skillset, things would be slightly different
On that list, did any players have as few extra base hits and as low a batting average as Bolton?

[kingcharlesxii]

He kind of reminds me of Jeremy Giambi. Same poor average, high Ks and high walks.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

He kind of reminds me of Jeremy Giambi. Same poor average, high Ks and high walks.

You forgot terrible baserunning instincts

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

I dont mind being proved wrong


On that list, did any players have as few extra base hits and as low a batting average as Bolton?

The lack of extra base hits was the most difficult pairing to find--but Henderson, Tettleton, and Tenace were all in the range of 14-17 doubles during their 100/100 k/BB periods. Not quite Boltenesque, but close.

[disposableheros]

positional profiles are constantly changing and are somewhat arbitrarily assigned. we can find many examples of players who fall "outside the box" at every position. i hope if they ever *are* implemented they are made to be optional. that i dont have a problem with. i have a problem with hardcoding a SS to never hit more than 10 HR, while always being the best fielder on the team.

[Curtis]

On my teams I edit the player positions to match their fielding characteristics. It's a little labor intensive, but good mental exercise.