Closer AI (Online League)

t-bone shuffle · 09-26-2007, 01:44 PM

I recently had an incident where the AI failed (in an online league) to use my closer to protect a 1 run lead at the beginning of the top of the 9th inning. My closer was completely rested, he'd thrown 21 pitches 4 days previous to the day in question. Instead, the AI brought in my #2 ranked left-handed middle reliever to face a lineup that before potential pinch hitters, was 3 consecutive RH batters. Which in my mind would eliminate the favoring of the L vs. L strategy slider. Of course I lost the game, the AI eventually brought in my #1 setup man to finish the inning.

Can anyone explain this? I'll admit that I don't usually pay particularly close attention to these types of AI moves, other than for my team. And I can't honestly say that I've noticed this type of thing in playing solo from the opposing AI. So, I can honestly say that I haven't noticed this previously.

Anyone have anything to offer that might help me understand how this could happen? And please, save me from the idea that "occasionally a manager might do something like this". That's baloney and we all know it. Is the AI programmed to occasionally override the strategy settings? Not that there is one specific to closer usage, but if ever there's a time to use the closer, it's when he's fully rested and you're trying to protect a one run lead in the 9th.

Help?

zekester91 · 09-26-2007, 01:58 PM

What are the league settings for using a closer and relivers, if they are set to rarely or never then I could see this happening, there are a few other league or global settings that might effect when a closer are used (don't remember what they are off the top of head), but that might not be the case here since I'm betting this is a modern day league with everything set for today's baseball but it is a possiblity.

Has this closer been getting the bulk of the closing duties up untill this point?

t-bone shuffle · 09-26-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

What are the league settings for using a closer and relievers, if they are set to rarely or never then I could see this happening, there are a few other league or global settings that might effect when a closer are used (don't remember what they are off the top of head), but that might not be the case here since I'm betting this is a modern day league with everything set for today's baseball but it is a possibility.

Has this closer been getting the bulk of the closing duties up until this point?

Being an online league, and I'm not the commissioner, I can't say for certain about the settings you mention, but your assertion that it's a modern day league is a correct one. (The league is in it's second season of simming and is based on the '06 Rolen set).

The closer in question had moved into the closer role approximately two weeks prior to this particular incident (this was the third sim with him in the role). What affect do you think this might have?

zekester91 · 09-26-2007, 02:52 PM

Was just thinking of seeing if this is just an isolated instance of this or something that had been happening all season, it's hard to give a reason for what could be an isolated event. What is his indurance, are you 100% sure he wasn't tired, 21 pitches for a closer is a lot, granted 4 days should be enough rest, but if he was over worked before that he might still have been tired, I've seen players take weeks to recover after I've worked them to near the point of injury.

Is his role closer or only listed in the closer slot. If he's only in the slot maybe the manager doesn't think of him as the closer, was the guy that was used the old closer still listed as the closer (in a middle relive slot but still with a closer as his role).

t-bone shuffle · 09-26-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

Was just thinking of seeing if this is just an isolated instance of this or something that had been happening all season, it's hard to give a reason for what could be an isolated event. What is his indurance, are you 100% sure he wasn't tired, 21 pitches for a closer is a lot, granted 4 days should be enough rest, but if he was over worked before that he might still have been tired, I've seen players take weeks to recover after I've worked them to near the point of injury.

Is his role closer or only listed in the closer slot. If he's only in the slot maybe the manager doesn't think of him as the closer, was the guy that was used the old closer still listed as the closer (in a middle relive slot but still with a closer as his role).

First, thanks for the interest and the dialogue.

The pitcher in question has an edurance rating of 27 (100 scale). I checked his game log and he had thrown only 8 pitches in an appearance two days prior to the 21 pitch outing, which means he'd made two appearances and thrown 29 pitches (and had not pitched at all for the three previous days) over the course of the six days prior to the incident we are discussing.

He is the only closer listed in the closer's role and the previous closer's role had been changed to MR at the time I made the change.

I realize that there may not be a reasonable answer to this question and really I was more interested in knowing if this was something that people had been seeing or possibly if this is an online issue. Certainly I see the AI do some poor pinch hitting and double switching, but I'd have to imagine that coding this type of stuff is much more problematic, from a strategy perspective than implementing the role of a closer. Also, I'm not that familiar with the way that the simulating process works for online leagues, but I'm assuming that things like this would be tamper proof?

I suppose that if this has not become a known issue, and we can assume that the online factor could not possibly be an issue, that it's "just one of those things". I can't come up with any other answer.

RchW · 09-26-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Being an online league, and I'm not the commissioner, I can't say for certain about the settings you mention, but your assertion that it's a modern day league is a correct one. (The league is in it's second season of simming and is based on the '06 Rolen set).

The closer in question had moved into the closer role approximately two weeks prior to this particular incident (this was the third sim with him in the role). What affect do you think this might have?

It may have a big effect. The AI will override your choices, especially with pitching. When setting up an online roster you should see what the AI does and compare it with yours. If it is very different you can be sure that certain players will or will not get used when you expect them to be. For batters it's not so bad except that the AI has no clue that cleanup hitters should have some power.

I'd like to see a function that allows you to override the AI and specify pitcher use. Especially at the end of the season when you want to skip a start for your studs. The AI puts them into a game in the 4th inning.

t-bone shuffle · 09-26-2007, 04:01 PM

After digging a little deeper, checking blown saves and looking at pitching logs for a few of my relievers, I'm thinking the issue is really nothing more than poor/screwy AI. You can only get so much info by looking at game logs, because certainly roles change and there are many other factors that you'd have to see a game log to know. But after taking a hard look at the reliever that was used, I noticed that he had a save and three blown saves as well. I know that 2 of the BS were when he had setup status, so that's understandable, but he had a save in a game at a time when he was about as low on the priority pole as possible. Maybe he was the last man standing, I don't know.

I just think that the answer is that the AI needs to be tightened up a bit.

matt2053 · 09-26-2007, 08:23 PM

Maybe your closer was DTD for a couple of days.

jasonn29tn14 · 09-27-2007, 07:35 AM

I saw this happen to my team in simming just yesturday. My starter went 7.1, then my MR went 1.1 (two outs in the 9th). The AI brings in my setup man who blows the save. My team won in the bottom of the 9th. But where was my closer? The previous day was an off day and I had made a trade for a new closer and changed all bullpen assignments. The entire bullpen was rested as well following a complete game the day before the off day. I guess my AI manager doesn't handle change very well......

t-bone shuffle · 09-27-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt2053

Maybe your closer was DTD for a couple of days.

A really good thought and certainly very possible. I hadn't even considered this. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonn29tn14

I saw this happen to my team in simming just yesterday. My starter went 7.1, then my MR went 1.1 (two outs in the 9th). The AI brings in my setup man who blows the save. My team won in the bottom of the 9th. But where was my closer? The previous day was an off day and I had made a trade for a new closer and changed all bullpen assignments. The entire bullpen was rested as well following a complete game the day before the off day. I guess my AI manager doesn't handle change very well......

In the end, I think it's more likely what I posted above. The Game Management AI just needs more work, to be tightened up some.

Thanks to all for the input.

tbs.

Crimguy · 09-28-2007, 07:18 PM

I have seen it happen a lot of times. And on a few occasions it has cost me the game . . .

I had always attributed it to my poor setting of the ai sliders, but it does make me wonder.

09-26-2007, 01:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
t-bone shuffle Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The dull edge of the blade Posts: 263	Closer AI (Online League) I recently had an incident where the AI failed (in an online league) to use my closer to protect a 1 run lead at the beginning of the top of the 9th inning. My closer was completely rested, he'd thrown 21 pitches 4 days previous to the day in question. Instead, the AI brought in my #2 ranked left-handed middle reliever to face a lineup that before potential pinch hitters, was 3 consecutive RH batters. Which in my mind would eliminate the favoring of the L vs. L strategy slider. Of course I lost the game, the AI eventually brought in my #1 setup man to finish the inning. Can anyone explain this? I'll admit that I don't usually pay particularly close attention to these types of AI moves, other than for my team. And I can't honestly say that I've noticed this type of thing in playing solo from the opposing AI. So, I can honestly say that I haven't noticed this previously. Anyone have anything to offer that might help me understand how this could happen? And please, save me from the idea that "occasionally a manager might do something like this". That's baloney and we all know it. Is the AI programmed to occasionally override the strategy settings? Not that there is one specific to closer usage, but if ever there's a time to use the closer, it's when he's fully rested and you're trying to protect a one run lead in the 9th. Help?

09-26-2007, 01:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,089	What are the league settings for using a closer and relivers, if they are set to rarely or never then I could see this happening, there are a few other league or global settings that might effect when a closer are used (don't remember what they are off the top of head), but that might not be the case here since I'm betting this is a modern day league with everything set for today's baseball but it is a possiblity. Has this closer been getting the bulk of the closing duties up untill this point? __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

09-26-2007, 02:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,089	Was just thinking of seeing if this is just an isolated instance of this or something that had been happening all season, it's hard to give a reason for what could be an isolated event. What is his indurance, are you 100% sure he wasn't tired, 21 pitches for a closer is a lot, granted 4 days should be enough rest, but if he was over worked before that he might still have been tired, I've seen players take weeks to recover after I've worked them to near the point of injury. Is his role closer or only listed in the closer slot. If he's only in the slot maybe the manager doesn't think of him as the closer, was the guy that was used the old closer still listed as the closer (in a middle relive slot but still with a closer as his role). __________________ Bobby Bowden must have a hell of a recruiting pitch, "Son if you come on down to Tallahasee, you just might be able to watch me die during practice!" The road was closed while the Hartford Police Department's bomb squad came and blew up the chicken.

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09-26-2007, 04:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
t-bone shuffle Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The dull edge of the blade Posts: 263	After digging a little deeper, checking blown saves and looking at pitching logs for a few of my relievers, I'm thinking the issue is really nothing more than poor/screwy AI. You can only get so much info by looking at game logs, because certainly roles change and there are many other factors that you'd have to see a game log to know. But after taking a hard look at the reliever that was used, I noticed that he had a save and three blown saves as well. I know that 2 of the BS were when he had setup status, so that's understandable, but he had a save in a game at a time when he was about as low on the priority pole as possible. Maybe he was the last man standing, I don't know. I just think that the answer is that the AI needs to be tightened up a bit.

09-26-2007, 08:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
matt2053 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 30	Maybe your closer was DTD for a couple of days.

09-27-2007, 07:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
jasonn29tn14 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 83	I saw this happen to my team in simming just yesturday. My starter went 7.1, then my MR went 1.1 (two outs in the 9th). The AI brings in my setup man who blows the save. My team won in the bottom of the 9th. But where was my closer? The previous day was an off day and I had made a trade for a new closer and changed all bullpen assignments. The entire bullpen was rested as well following a complete game the day before the off day. I guess my AI manager doesn't handle change very well......

09-28-2007, 07:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
Crimguy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cave Creek, AZ Posts: 154	I have seen it happen a lot of times. And on a few occasions it has cost me the game . . . I had always attributed it to my poor setting of the ai sliders, but it does make me wonder.