OOTP 8 released!

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

We have to pay a 19% VAT tax for all sales to European customers

I understand the VAT thing (pain in the neck, got to do my return in a few weeks), but it's not that that is irking me. It's the fact that the first post clearly states the game will cost $19.99 and yet when you try to purchase it tells me it is €19.99 - if that price is inc. VAT, then the exclusive of VAT price is €16.80 which is still around $24.50 so we're still paying $5 over the US price if we give you the VAT allowance.

Now I'm looking at my return and thinking have you got the best deal here with e-license - I don't know how they work, but it appears to me that the software is supplied by OOTP Developments GMbH at no cost - it doesn't cost anything to get the program on your computer. The cost is incurred when you purchase a license which you do via e-license. They should be therefore the ones to be VAT liable. When I buy OOTP my money isn't going to Germany, it's going to somewhere in the United States isn't it. e-license then send OOTP money for every license they sell (in the form of a commission), and as far as I know commission payments aren't subject to VAT.

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

I understand the VAT thing (pain in the neck, got to do my return in a few weeks), but it's not that that is irking me. It's the fact that the first post clearly states the game will cost $19.99 and yet when you try to purchase it tells me it is €19.99 - if that price is inc. VAT, then the exclusive of VAT price is €16.80 which is still around $24.50 so we're still paying $5 over the US price if we give you the VAT allowance.

Now I'm looking at my return and thinking have you got the best deal here with e-license - I don't know how they work, but it appears to me that the software is supplied by OOTP Developments GMbH at no cost - it doesn't cost anything to get the program on your computer. The cost is incurred when you purchase a license which you do via e-license. They should be therefore the ones to be VAT liable. When I buy OOTP my money isn't going to Germany, it's going to somewhere in the United States isn't it. e-license then send OOTP money for every license they sell (in the form of a commission), and as far as I know commission payments aren't subject to VAT.

This has already been discussed with our tax consultant and with our tax office. German tax law says without any doubt that we have to pay for the revenues which we make with sales to people from Europe. Even if it goes through Viatech. I'm no tax expert, but the experts have discussed it and we have to pay it.

[DWK]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I'm gonna offer my two cents to you guys and I don't even play this game anymore--

First of all, I can't believe all the bellyaching that's going on! ESPECIALLY since you've been offered the following IIRC:

--If you own 2007 and want OOTP8, its FIVE BUCKS. (Come on....you're griping?)

--If you own 2007 and only want to import Cato information, a FREE way has been provided. (What else could you ask for?)

--If you don't own 2007, OOTP 8 is 20.00 (very cheap price)


Why, given these options are some of you bitching about having to pay for it since you already own 2007? First of all, the addition of Cato importation makes this much more than a patch and well worth five bucks to anyone who already owns the SI version of the game. I guess you see your initial purchase as payment in full for this great add on. You're wrong. You wouldn't do the work involved for nothing, I fear.

For those bitching, who want to import Cato, use the method provided, import it, uninstall OOTP8 and basically shut your pie hole. The bitching is just for bitching's sake, IMO.

..........and to publicly gripe b/c SION is still in the game is the most infantile attempt to interject yourself into a thread that you really have nothing to say in. Thusly, you post that 'gripe'.

I have OOTP2007 (its not MY OOTP, however) and have supported Markus since OOTP2. To anyone who's griping about paying five bucks for Cato importation--have you thought about the work involved? ..............and you don't want to pay for it?

If I still ran a league, this would be a no-brainer EVEN IF I had no Cato to import.

I don't know why I'm surprised, its always been this way. God bless you battists, for dealing with this customer base.

bravo

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

This has already been discussed with our tax consultant and with our tax office. German tax law says without any doubt that we have to pay for the revenues which we make with sales to people from Europe. Even if it goes through Viatech. I'm no tax expert, but the experts have discussed it and we have to pay it.

Fair enough. I wonder if they've closed that loophole here yet then ...

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by magnet

I am not ultra-frugal, I am ultra-poor. There is a huge difference. If I had more money to throw around, $5 would be nothing. But I don't, and I know I'm not the only one.

Edited for content not allowable on the main forums.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Then go do some work and make some money and stop spending your free time bitching about $5. I could have made $25 in the amount I time I wasted reading your infantile complaints. OOTPD is a for-profit company, it's $6 fricking dollars.

I'm not about getting into arguments around here, but if the man says he doesn't have the money to spend on it, I'll take him on his word. He didn't want something for free, he wanted the newest patch for a product he already paid for. After reading both your posts and Magnet's, it seems your post is much more infantile than anything he said.

Edited for content.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Russ

I'm not about getting into arguments around here, but if the man says he doesn't have the money to spend on it, I'll take him on his word. He didn't want something for free, he wanted the newest patch for a product he already paid for. After reading both your posts and Magnet's, it seems your post is much more infantile than anything he said.

IOW, mind your own ****ing business.

Whatever Russ. When someone has 5k posts on an internet message board I'm not going to listen to them bitch for long that they can't afford $6.

He most certainly wants it for free - and if you read the thread they are pretty much offering it for free, you just need to cover the Viatech cut.

If you can't come up with $6, then your time would be better spent fixing that problem then threatening not to buy future versions.

We heard him the first 15 times, he doesn't think you should have to spend $6. He doesn't have to, but OOTPD can't legally provide us with the bug fixes and new features unless someone gets paid to distribute the e-licences.

[silvam14]

[Russ]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Whatever Russ. When someone has 5k posts on an internet message board I'm not going to listen to them bitch for long that they can't afford $6.

He most certainly wants it for free - and if you read the thread they are pretty much offering it for free, you just need to cover the Viatech cut.

If you can't come up with $6, then your time would be better spent fixing that problem then threatening not to buy future versions.

We heard him the first 15 times, he doesn't think you should have to spend $6. He doesn't have to, but OOTPD can't legally provide us with the bug fixes and new features unless someone gets paid to distribute the e-licences.

I overreacted, sorry. I feel his pain.

[battists]

Can't we all just get along?

Please, consider this fair warning that I'm not going to let this thread further devolve into an argument over who should spend what on what, or how much money person X has.

Anyway, redsoxford, although I'm sure it doesn't make you any happier, I did update the original post to make it clear that it's $19.99 in the US and 19.99 euros elsewhere.

Thanks!

Steve

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by battists

Can't we all just get along?

Please, consider this fair warning that I'm not going to let this thread further devolve into an argument over who should spend what on what, or how much money person X has.

Anyway, redsoxford, although I'm sure it doesn't make you any happier, I did update the original post to make it clear that it's $19.99 in the US and 19.99 euros elsewhere.

Thanks!

Steve

Cheers Steve ...

Anyway, I've bought the game anyway as it gives money to future development, and it was the point of not being told the correct price that irked me...

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by battists

Can't we all just get along?

Please, consider this fair warning that I'm not going to let this thread further devolve into an argument over who should spend what on what, or how much money person X has.

Anyway, redsoxford, although I'm sure it doesn't make you any happier, I did update the original post to make it clear that it's $19.99 in the US and 19.99 euros elsewhere.

Thanks!

Steve

In before the lock.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by battists

Can't we all just get along?

Why sure, Rodney.

Seriously, that was mild compared to some of the stuff I saw here last year and that you will recall.

Hey, question for you. Any plans to actually provide a slightly updated OOTP 8 manual, like the program menu implies? I know you are supposed to use the OOTP 2007 manual and just change the shortcut or file name to match, but I just had a thought. That piece you did on the Cato converter certainly would belong in an updated manual. Just asking . . .

[Bonedwarf]

Originally Posted by bosunmate

In before the lock.

I was in later than you

[Claybor]

OK, the facts.

I payed $25 or $30 for ootp2007.

If you don't own 2007 you can get OOTP8 for $20.

If you own 2007 you may get the patch for $6, but it could be $20.

Even at $6, the folks the bought OOTP2007 are being screwed. I don't care how much $$$ it is, I don't care for it when a company makes me pay more for their product then others have to. This is NOT good business no matter how you look at it. If you think different, then quite simply put, you are wrong.

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OK, the facts.

I payed $25 or $30 for ootp2007.

If you don't own 2007 you can get OOTP8 for $20.

If you own 2007 you may get the patch for $6, but it could be $20.

Even at $6, the folks the bought OOTP2007 are being screwed. I don't care how much $$$ it is, I don't care for it when a company makes me pay more for their product then others have to. This is NOT good business no matter how you look at it. If you think different, then quite simply put, you are wrong.

I would totally agree with you if there were something in the patch list worth getting upset about. There isn't. Not a single one of those things that were patched affects everyone playing OOTP 2007.

So, if you don't need those things fixed, and you don't want to pay for the new features, don't buy OOTP 8! How much simpler can it be?

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OK, the facts.

OK, let's review the facts...

Here's the bug fix list:

*Players claimed off waivers in online leagues are now placed in DFA, not the active roster
*Players from deleted feeder leagues no longer show up in the draft pool
*expansion protection lists for online leagues now included in exports
*rare crashes tied into coaching model resolved
*fixed some contract negotiation issues where players over-valued themselves
*improved double-switch AI

Massively impressive list...

Now lets review the new features. The real rosters are available for free. Download the game, copy the quickstart to your OOTP 7, and you have the real rosters. The CATO converter can be used with the demo, as it is a one-time event. The Lahman database is available for free at Sean Lahman's website.

For your six bucks, you get two more licenses. Or, you can skip paying the six bucks and you can get all the bundled new features are available for free.

Making all the key features available for FREE as they have been for OOTP 2007 owners..well that's good business. It builds good will. They are giving away the goodies. If you can't handle free...quite simply, you are wrong.

[Claybor]

Asking folks to pay again for any fixes/features at the same time as offering the game cheaper then the original to new buyers, yessss this is a good way to keep your customers happy. It's no big deal as I would probably wait for OOTP9 regardless, but I cant see this bringing much ootp goodwill.

[Solonor]

OH! I get it now. You're upset that if you were one of the "unfortunate" few who bought OOTP 2007, you paid more than new customers buying OOTP 8 (at least I think that's it, because the new OOTP 8 customers aren't getting anything for their $20 that you can't get for free with your original $30).

Haven't you ever bought last year's model of anything? It's almost always cheaper than it was for those who bought it when it first came out. This is the same thing.

[LeiterFanatic]

I came back out of semi-retirement to first say hello to everyone, and secondly, to state that this seems very much like the 6.12 versus 6.5 debate. And I paid 20 bucks for that because it had a lot of enhancements. Should I have gotten them for free a s a loyal customer? Maybe. But I view 08 as 1/4 of that update, so five bucks is worth it.