Suggestions for future releases

shercot · 01-29-2008, 03:59 PM

I'm a Mac user, new to OOTP, and though I'm aware that the suggestions thread is closed, I'd like to throw in my two cents anyway. (Let's take it as a given that basically I have nothing to say but nice things about OOTP, so I don't have to keep repeating it every time I post anything that sounds at all critical....)

Suggestion 1

To piggyback on a suggestion made in the thread mentioned above: in-game substitutions should require confirmation before going into effect.

Reason

Same as stated in that thread: sometimes I get a little clumsy with the mouse, and I've wound up dragging a player to the wrong spot in the lineup... or sometimes even the wrong player. Because currently OOTP burns a player as soon as you stick him in a lineup, and because that mistake can't be rectified, that player now cannot be used later.

Priority

I'd say medium-high -- say, a 7 or 8 on a 1-to-10 scale.

Suggestion 2

The ability to undo decisions -- not to undo the actual plays led to by those decisions, though.

Reason

Partly for the reasons stated in Suggestion 1. At the moment I'm blanking on specific examples, but there have been about half a dozen times that I wished I could undo a decision due to, say, forgetting the base/out situation or something. (As opposed to the times I'd like to undo a decision based on the results....)

Priority

Let's say medium-high again -- 7 or even 8.

Suggestion 3

Keeping "managerial decision" keyboard shortcuts as consistent as possible, regardless of baserunner/out situation.

Reason

Okay, so sometimes I'm clumsy with the keyboard, too, but I'm much more keyboard-oriented than mouse-oriented. Here's an example of the upshot: Let's say there's a runner on first with nobody out; for each pitch of the next guy's at-bat, I'm pressing 3 to hold the runner; the batter hits into a double play; the following guy comes up... and I'm so much in a mode of pressing 3 that I forget that I should press 1 instead, and suddenly I see that I've just ordered a pitchout with nobody on base. I realize that it's my fault for not paying close enough attention, but I think it'd be a helpful alteration. What I don't know is how this would affect other keyboard-oriented people who pay better attention than I do. (I've also inadvertently plunked a couple of hitters when I'd meant to visit the mound.)

Priority

I'd say high -- maybe 8 or 9.

Suggestion 4

Occasional reminders, say, to get somebody up in the bullpen when appropriate.

Reason

With the warmup rule in effect, sometimes I'll find myself putting in a pinch-hitter for the pitcher but forgetting to get somebody up and throwing in the bullpen, which results in having to put in a reliever who hasn't warmed up. To work around that, I'll do something like have a lefty and a righty both start warming up well before I think I'll need either of them. That'll work fine unless the game designers decide that a pitcher can only warm up for a limited time before becoming tired, at which time reminders could be crucial.

I suppose other reminders could be useful, too, such as "You realize you're putting your only backup catcher in as a pinch-hitter in the third inning, right?" (Or something more likely and less silly.)

At the "behind the scenes" level, perhaps it'd be useful to have reminders along the lines of "Jones is due to come off the DL in two days."

Priority

To me, the bullpen reminders would be reasonably high (say, 7 or 8 of 10).

Suggestion 5

Communication between you (as the in-game manager) and your coaches, and between you and your trainer.

Reason

Coaches: It'd be nice to get a message from your pitching coach (or bullpen coach, should the designers ever add that function), perhaps in the form of a comic-book-style speech bubble, that a pitcher in the pen is or is not ready to enter a game.

Trainer: With day-to-day injuries, it's hard to know if a player really can or cannot play on a given day -- especially if you're told that a guy has a day-to-day injury that'll last a week or two. So perhaps the occasional communique from the trainer ("Jones should be ready Wednesday -- Thursday at the latest"; "Jones can't go today; check with me tomorrow"; Jones needs to sit at least a week") would help with a variety of decisions.

Also shouldn't a player be able to something like "I've got the flu, Skip -- I'd better sit this one out"?

Priority

Man, I don't know -- medium? Maybe a 6? Higher?

Suggestion 6

In-game notification of an opposing pitcher getting up in the bullpen, or sitting down. Ditto for an on-deck hitter who isn't the next scheduled hitter.

Reason

A real-life manager would see these things and be able to make proactive decisions.

Priority

Let's say medium -- a 5 or 6. I'd certainly consider it helpful, but maybe other folks don't need that kind of prompting.

Suggestion 7

The option for teams to have home and road uniforms and (perhaps) variations thereon.

Reason

Just for fun -- variety, spice of life, etc. It's clear that lots of OOTP users enjoy messing with uniform templates and such....

Priority

Pretty low. Let's say 3 -- also just for fun.

Suggestion 8

A "Show bunt" option.

Reason

Because sometimes that's what you want a player to do, perhaps to induce the opposing third baseman to play in, in a situation where you don't want the hitter to actually lay down a bunt.

Priority

Low: this would probably be a 1.

Thanks for indulging me to this point. Please forgive my newness and the length of this post, and also if I've violated some suggestion-posting protocol. Also if I'm retreading old ground.

johnnybourbon · 01-29-2008, 04:14 PM

I wouldn't assign the same priorities to any of your issues, for i don't play out any games. I'm sim only. Well written post, regardless.

shercot · 01-29-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

I wouldn't assign the same priorities to any of your issues, for i don't play out any games. I'm sim only. Well written post, regardless.

Thanks.

Because OOTP is so flexible, I don't know how meaningful it is to assign priorities. I suppose I could check, but I'm wondering if OOTP users have been polled in the past regarding what they use the game for. I'm guessing that I'm in the minority in terms of who plays out the games and who doesn't, so I tried to bear in mind that others wouldn't see the priorities the same way I do.

Off topic, but: I'm amazed at how enthusiastic OOTP users are in general. Just the fact that so much work is put into some really specific areas of the game -- uniforms, logos, faces, etc. -- is an endorsement in itself. I've known about OOTP for some years now, but only recently started using a computer (and operating system) that could actually run it, so I'm having a lot of fun and experiencing the zeal of a convert. This game is far closer to "all things to all people" than any baseball game or simulation I've ever seen.

Raidergoo · 01-29-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Off topic, but: I'm amazed at how enthusiastic OOTP users are in general. Just the fact that so much work is put into some really specific areas of the game -- uniforms, logos, faces, etc. -- is an endorsement in itself. I've known about OOTP for some years now, but only recently started using a computer (and operating system) that could actually run it, so I'm having a lot of fun and experiencing the zeal of a convert. This game is far closer to "all things to all people" than any baseball game or simulation I've ever seen.

Please stick around! We always could use Mac users to evangelize.

johnnybourbon · 01-29-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Thanks.

Because OOTP is so flexible, I don't know how meaningful it is to assign priorities. I suppose I could check, but I'm wondering if OOTP users have been polled in the past regarding what they use the game for. I'm guessing that I'm in the minority in terms of who plays out the games and who doesn't, so I tried to bear in mind that others wouldn't see the priorities the same way I do.

Off topic, but: I'm amazed at how enthusiastic OOTP users are in general. Just the fact that so much work is put into some really specific areas of the game -- uniforms, logos, faces, etc. -- is an endorsement in itself. I've known about OOTP for some years now, but only recently started using a computer (and operating system) that could actually run it, so I'm having a lot of fun and experiencing the zeal of a convert. This game is far closer to "all things to all people" than any baseball game or simulation I've ever seen.

right. the "all things to all people" is what sells it. it's customizable up the wazoo, great for solo play, whether historical, fictional, world based, minor league career'd, great for online play (but not as good as 6.5 as ive seen in the threads), and even great pbp in game.

shercot · 01-29-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Please stick around! We always could use Mac users to evangelize.

Consider me stuck around.

Meanwhile, let me ask you and other Mac users: In game-by-game mode, does OOTP eventually slow down between pitches for you? Normally it takes maybe five seconds between the time I press "any key" at the end of one play and the time the choices (i.e., "Swing," "Take," etc.) come up again. Then I'll reach a point where it takes, say, 30 seconds.

A temporary fix is to run Disk Repair Utility or Onyx and fix permissions, but is there a quicker, easier, less annoying way to get around this?

Thanks.

shercot · 01-29-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

right. the "all things to all people" is what sells it. it's customizable up the wazoo, great for solo play, whether historical, fictional, world based, minor league career'd, great for online play (but not as good as 6.5 as ive seen in the threads), and even great pbp in game.

A friend and I spent years working on a dice-and-charts baseball game. (Well, "years" on and off.) That pretty much died because (a) we reached a point where there were too many charts and dice-rolls -- I mean, it might take a couple of minutes just to find out that the batter has hit a routine ground ball to second -- and (b) what we really wanted was to create a computer version of our game, which was bad news because neither of us is a programmer. (I did manage to come up with a way to play the game using FileMaker, but it ain't gonna keep stats or a scorebook....)

The way I've been describing OOTP lately is, it's extremely close to the game I thought I'd wanted all these years. In fact, it does way more -- and what we used to hear about our game was that we tried too hard to make it "all things to all people."

In some ways, OOTP does too much. This isn't a bad thing; indeed, it's shown me definitively that I wouldn't want to be a real-life GM, because if you take on the role whole hog, being a GM in OOTP is way more complicated than I would have any real-life patience for -- meaning that there's just so much to think about. (To be fair, I've never actually wanted to be a GM anyway, but I've always enjoyed the idea of being the sole control in one's own baseball universe.)

OOTP kind of reminds me of Photoshop: by no means am I an artist or a photographer, but I've been able to put the software to good use over the years and produce some stuff that I might think was pretty professional looking, if I hadn't been the guy who'd put it together. Photoshop -- and I've been using version 6 on the Mac for years, being neither willing nor able to upgrade -- has got so so so so many features and can do a great many cool things; I probably don't use more than a quarter of its capabilities, if even that. (Granted, OOTP is way more intuitive and easier to navigate through than Photoshop....)

Not that anybody here needs me to say this, but there are just tons of things you can do with OOTP, and not just playing games or simulating seasons, etc. You can use OOTP as a virtual baseball spreadsheet, playing out any number of "what if?" scenarios and analyzing various tangible effects. I mean, I figure it's a close enough simulation that one could do one's own "studies":

* Does lineup order really matter?

* There's VORP, but then you could also run a zillion simulated seasons and get a sense of a player's "real" value over a replacement player.

* To what extent should we care about pitch count?

I could easily do any of these and other studies. (I won't, but I could.) I'm really impressed not just with what people could do with OOTP, but what they've done already. (Not that I want to spend too much time trying to sell OOTP-flavored snow cones to ice-cave dwellers in OOTP Land....)

wlight1 · 01-29-2008, 11:01 PM

I wanted to respond to some of your points; before I do, 2 asides of my own: I also love OOTP and am here to stay. No negative comments on my part are intended as a slight on the game or its developers, OOTP is the best game of any game ever anywhere. Second, it's wonderful that you're a new user shercot, I love new users as they are the lifeblood of the company that makes the game we all love so much. If I come off as snippy don't take it personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 1
To piggyback on a suggestion made in the thread mentioned above: in-game substitutions should require confirmation before going into effect.

I agree. Especially in older versions with less clear interface, I used to sub in my all-glove&run, no-hit pinch-runners in for the guy who was up to bat instead of the potential winning baserunner ALL the time. Less so now, but still important. Drawback: extra clicks that are bothersome when you're not actually about to screw up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 2
The ability to undo decisions -- not to undo the actual plays led to by those decisions, though.

This I don't actually understand. What decisions do you make during a live game that don't have immediate consequences? I can't think of anything off-hand, what do you mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 4
Occasional reminders, say, to get somebody up in the bullpen when appropriate.

I feel like this would get more irritating than anything else. Mind you, I don't use the bullpen warmup feature at all anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

I suppose other reminders could be useful, too, such as "You realize you're putting your only backup catcher in as a pinch-hitter in the third inning, right?" (Or something more likely and less silly.)

I think the more important priority is teaching the AI to realize that this is actually a bad idea in the first place so my Gump of an AI manager doesn't do it when I sim my games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

At the "behind the scenes" level, perhaps it'd be useful to have reminders along the lines of "Jones is due to come off the DL in two days."

Maybe, but how would it distinguish between significant reminders and ones that would merely further clog my inbox? I'd suggest a customizable calendar feature where you could set your own reminders. That's something I find myself frequently wishing for (as I jot down notes on a pad next to the machine).

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 5
Communication between you (as the in-game manager) and your coaches, and between you and your trainer.
Reason
Coaches: It'd be nice to get a message from your pitching coach (or bullpen coach, should the designers ever add that function), perhaps in the form of a comic-book-style speech bubble, that a pitcher in the pen is or is not ready to enter a game.

Trainer: With day-to-day injuries, it's hard to know if a player really can or cannot play on a given day -- especially if you're told that a guy has a day-to-day injury that'll last a week or two. So perhaps the occasional communique from the trainer ("Jones should be ready Wednesday -- Thursday at the latest"; "Jones can't go today; check with me tomorrow"; Jones needs to sit at least a week") would help with a variety of decisions.

Also shouldn't a player be able to something like "I've got the flu, Skip -- I'd better sit this one out"?

Can't comment on the bullpen functionality, as I said I don't use that feature, so I don't know how you're intended to judge the readiness of a reliever to come in. But on the trainer side, I don't think that's the way dtd injuries work. They come with an inherent production hit, so your guy would be day-to-day for 1-2 weeks with a 13% penalty to effectiveness. This is somewhat unrealistic implementation but works fairly well (I'm also under the impression that playing a guy with a dtd ouchie comes with some risk of a more permanent injury, or did that idea not hold over from previous versions?). So your player really can play on a given day -- and we know what the downside is. Injuries in OOTP are very transparent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 6
In-game notification of an opposing pitcher getting up in the bullpen, or sitting down. Ditto for an on-deck hitter who isn't the next scheduled hitter.

While I certainly agree with your reasoning here, I'm of the understanding that the AI doesn't currently use the warmup rule. So there wouldn't be a way to put that into play. I also get the impression that the AI doesn't make substitution plans in advance, so advising you that there's a PH on deck would require more programming than it might seem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 7
The option for teams to have home and road uniforms and (perhaps) variations thereon.

That'd be really good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Suggestion 8
A "Show bunt" option.

That would also be cool. Pretty intricate strategy options there.

shercot · 01-30-2008, 02:40 PM

I'd like to respond to wlight1's replies, but I haven't figured out how to quote properly on this board yet, so bear with me. I'm sure it's less trouble than I actually went to....

Me: The ability to undo decisions -- not to undo the actual plays led to by those decisions, though.

You: This I don't actually understand. What decisions do you make during a live game that don't have immediate consequences? I can't think of anything off-hand, what do you mean?

Sign misinterpretation is the only way I can think of at the moment for, say, a pitcher to deliberately drill a batter despite being instructed throw a pitchout. I realize that people do miss signs, but when you think you're pressing a key for one action and something entirely different happens, that's just too weird.

So maybe I do mean that we should be able to undo the actual plays. I'm thinking of things like deliberately hitting a batter when you meant to visit the mound. That could be fixed, I think, by always having a given number correspond to a decision -- like, maybe 8 should always be "visit mound," rather than only in certain baserunner/out situations. That would be for the benefit of those, like me, who are too lazy to look at the decision options before every pitch to make sure nothing has changed. Does that make any more sense than before?

Me: Occasional reminders, say, to get somebody up in the bullpen when appropriate.

You: I feel like this would get more irritating than anything else. Mind you, I don't use the bullpen warmup feature at all anyway.

I only use it because it to me it seems sort of unfair to be able to spontaneously bring in the exact pitcher you want in a given situation. Maybe that sounds nuts; I guess one example might be this: Let's say you're holding back your one-out lefty specialist until that exact moment when, in the bottom of the ninth with two outs and the tying run on, your opponent brings in his lefty slugger. Yeah, that's when you'd want your lefty specialist in there, but -- and this is only an opinion and a preference -- I feel that you, the in-game manager, should anticipate this and should already have had your specialist up and throwing in plenty of time to be ready. In real life, your pitcher can't be "retroactively ready."

Probably the overall effect is slight, but using a warmup rule helps me keep my head in the game better than not using the rule.

Me: [reminders] such as "You realize you're putting your only backup catcher in as a pinch-hitter in the third inning, right?" (Or something more likely and less silly.)

You: I think the more important priority is teaching the AI to realize that this is actually a bad idea in the first place so my Gump of an AI manager doesn't do it when I sim my games.

You're on to something there. Yesterday, for instance, my goofball opponent intentionally walked one of my hitters at maybe the stupidest time possible, basically ushering in defeat. It was exactly the kind of move that would have a real-life manager desperately trying to cover for his own ineptitude by yelling at the press corps after the game for daring to question him about it.

Another factor, though, is that sometimes there's a really good reason (not that I can think of one right now...) that you might want to do something weird, like putting in a marginally faster pinch-runner for the pinch-hitter who just reached base, thus perhaps hamstringing yourself for the eighth or ninth inning, by which time you may have run out of bench players. (Go back to October 2003 and ask Felipe Alou....) That's why I think the "Are you sure about this move?" prompt might be a good idea.

Me: At the "behind the scenes" level, perhaps it'd be useful to have reminders along the lines of "Jones is due to come off the DL in two days."

You: Maybe, but how would it distinguish between significant reminders and ones that would merely further clog my inbox? I'd suggest a customizable calendar feature where you could set your own reminders. That's something I find myself frequently wishing for (as I jot down notes on a pad next to the machine).

Yeah, I could jot down notes too, but I don't -- although real-life managers often do. Maybe I should -- or, heck, I could use a reminder program or iCal or something. And maybe putting this kind of function into OOTP would bloat it unnecessarily. I don't know.

To answer your actual question, I'm thinking along the lines of one of those pop-up boxes that tell you that a player's eligible to come off the DL that day.

Me: Communication between you (as the in-game manager) and your coaches, and between you and your trainer.

* Coach: It'd be nice to get a message from your pitching coach... that a pitcher in the pen is or is not ready to enter a game.

* Trainer: With day-to-day injuries, it's hard to know if a player really can or cannot play on a given day -- especially if you're told that a guy has a day-to-day injury that'll last a week or two. So perhaps the occasional communiqué from the trainer [would help].

* Also shouldn't a player be able to something like "I've got the flu, Skip -- I'd better sit this one out"?

You: Can't comment on the bullpen functionality, as I said I don't use that feature, so I don't know how you're intended to judge the readiness of a reliever to come in. But on the trainer side, I don't think that's the way dtd injuries work. They come with an inherent production hit, so your guy would be day-to-day for 1-2 weeks with a 13% penalty to effectiveness. This is somewhat unrealistic implementation but works fairly well (I'm also under the impression that playing a guy with a dtd ouchie comes with some risk of a more permanent injury, or did that idea not hold over from previous versions?). So your player really can play on a given day -- and we know what the downside is. Injuries in OOTP are very transparent.

* Unless I just haven't looked closely enough at the manual, the only way I can think of to know if a pitcher's ready is to keep checking the "[Your Team] Substitutions" page to see whether it says "Cold," "Warming Up," or "Ready" next to his name. That's not a bad thing, mind you. It's just that I might well get caught up in what's going on on the field at a crucial moment and then forget to warm up a reliever soon enough, or I might want to bring in a guy before he's ready. My suggestion about the message from the coach is the rough equivalent of a bullpen coach waving his cap.

* Now that I think of it, you're probably right that my idea about day-to-day injuries wouldn't track with the way OOTP actually works. You do get a visual cue -- the yellow cross -- to let you know that a player's not at his best, so maybe that's as good as it gets. I don't know if a guy can get knocked out for a game or two or three and then be day to day, but that's where a message from the trainer might help.

Me: In-game notification of an opposing pitcher getting up in the bullpen, or sitting down. Ditto for an on-deck hitter who isn't the next scheduled hitter.

You: While I certainly agree with your reasoning here, I'm of the understanding that the AI doesn't currently use the warmup rule. So there wouldn't be a way to put that into play. I also get the impression that the AI doesn't make substitution plans in advance, so advising you that there's a PH on deck would require more programming than it might seem.

If it's true that the AI manager doesn't use the warmup rule, I just plain missed it. Doesn't seem fair, though, because if you use the warmup rule, you're "notifying" the AI manager, right?

It's been years since I've played it, but I think Diamond Mind gives that advance notice, at least about pitchers warming up; either way, I don't know what kind of effort it'd take to add this functionality. Also, it does occur to me that if I don't have to place a guy in the on-deck circle, the AI guy shouldn't either.

Me: The option for teams to have home and road uniforms and (perhaps) variations thereon.

You: That'd be really good.

I agree with both of us. The whole thing with uniforms and faces is a ball, and it'd be fun to see it put to use on a home/road basis -- but then, I don't know what kind of programming this would take, especially with the faces, because I'm envisioning slightly different pictures (as opposed to the exact same pose and expression, but different uniforms, on both home and road pictures).

What made me think of this part was the fact that, when approached by the AI, I traded my 37-year-old "ace" (who'd been pitching miserably for two months) for a 34-year-old first baseman of the post-1999 Will Clark variety plus about half a dozen good prospects.(I mean, I figure I cleaned up on the deal, because with about 50 games left in the season, I'm not gonna make up a 15-game deficit, and that pitcher won't be an "ace" for long.) Once the trade went through... well, I won't even mention that the pitcher threw seven innings of shutout ball in his first start for the new team, so instead I'll say that while he was on my team, his picture had this really sour, sort of crazed expression, but in the new picture, he's beaming... while my first baseman's picture went from smiling to just sort of looking at the camera.

Me: A "show bunt" option.

You: That would also be cool. Pretty intricate strategy options there.

I think that may be another Diamond Mind thing. It's not as though it always pays off, but sometimes you wanna bring in the other team's third baseman.

Another thing I noticed is that, unless I'm forgetting something, you can't attempt to bunt for a hit with runners on. I don't know if that's a big deal, though.

SDtwin · 01-30-2008, 05:17 PM

To quote someone, use the Quote button in the bottom right of their message. There is also a button when you are writing a message that looks like a speech bubble that will make it quote the text you select

Quote:

Example

Raidergoo · 01-30-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shercot

Meanwhile, let me ask you and other Mac users:

Sorry, I am not a Mac user at this point in time.

The Wolf · 01-30-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Sorry, I am not a Mac user at this point in time.

And we're very proud of you for that.

shercot · 01-31-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

There is also a button

I tried that and it didn't seem to work right. (More likely, I did something wrong....) It's okay now, though, apparently. Thanks.

01-29-2008, 03:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
shercot Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	Suggestions for future releases I'm a Mac user, new to OOTP, and though I'm aware that the suggestions thread is closed, I'd like to throw in my two cents anyway. (Let's take it as a given that basically I have nothing to say but nice things about OOTP, so I don't have to keep repeating it every time I post anything that sounds at all critical....) Suggestion 1 To piggyback on a suggestion made in the thread mentioned above: in-game substitutions should require confirmation before going into effect. Reason Same as stated in that thread: sometimes I get a little clumsy with the mouse, and I've wound up dragging a player to the wrong spot in the lineup... or sometimes even the wrong player. Because currently OOTP burns a player as soon as you stick him in a lineup, and because that mistake can't be rectified, that player now cannot be used later. Priority I'd say medium-high -- say, a 7 or 8 on a 1-to-10 scale. Suggestion 2 The ability to undo decisions -- not to undo the actual plays led to by those decisions, though. Reason Partly for the reasons stated in Suggestion 1. At the moment I'm blanking on specific examples, but there have been about half a dozen times that I wished I could undo a decision due to, say, forgetting the base/out situation or something. (As opposed to the times I'd like to undo a decision based on the results....) Priority Let's say medium-high again -- 7 or even 8. Suggestion 3 Keeping "managerial decision" keyboard shortcuts as consistent as possible, regardless of baserunner/out situation. Reason Okay, so sometimes I'm clumsy with the keyboard, too, but I'm much more keyboard-oriented than mouse-oriented. Here's an example of the upshot: Let's say there's a runner on first with nobody out; for each pitch of the next guy's at-bat, I'm pressing 3 to hold the runner; the batter hits into a double play; the following guy comes up... and I'm so much in a mode of pressing 3 that I forget that I should press 1 instead, and suddenly I see that I've just ordered a pitchout with nobody on base. I realize that it's my fault for not paying close enough attention, but I think it'd be a helpful alteration. What I don't know is how this would affect other keyboard-oriented people who pay better attention than I do. (I've also inadvertently plunked a couple of hitters when I'd meant to visit the mound.) Priority I'd say high -- maybe 8 or 9. Suggestion 4 Occasional reminders, say, to get somebody up in the bullpen when appropriate. Reason With the warmup rule in effect, sometimes I'll find myself putting in a pinch-hitter for the pitcher but forgetting to get somebody up and throwing in the bullpen, which results in having to put in a reliever who hasn't warmed up. To work around that, I'll do something like have a lefty and a righty both start warming up well before I think I'll need either of them. That'll work fine unless the game designers decide that a pitcher can only warm up for a limited time before becoming tired, at which time reminders could be crucial. I suppose other reminders could be useful, too, such as "You realize you're putting your only backup catcher in as a pinch-hitter in the third inning, right?" (Or something more likely and less silly.) At the "behind the scenes" level, perhaps it'd be useful to have reminders along the lines of "Jones is due to come off the DL in two days." Priority To me, the bullpen reminders would be reasonably high (say, 7 or 8 of 10). Suggestion 5 Communication between you (as the in-game manager) and your coaches, and between you and your trainer. Reason Coaches: It'd be nice to get a message from your pitching coach (or bullpen coach, should the designers ever add that function), perhaps in the form of a comic-book-style speech bubble, that a pitcher in the pen is or is not ready to enter a game. Trainer: With day-to-day injuries, it's hard to know if a player really can or cannot play on a given day -- especially if you're told that a guy has a day-to-day injury that'll last a week or two. So perhaps the occasional communique from the trainer ("Jones should be ready Wednesday -- Thursday at the latest"; "Jones can't go today; check with me tomorrow"; Jones needs to sit at least a week") would help with a variety of decisions. Also shouldn't a player be able to something like "I've got the flu, Skip -- I'd better sit this one out"? Priority Man, I don't know -- medium? Maybe a 6? Higher? Suggestion 6 In-game notification of an opposing pitcher getting up in the bullpen, or sitting down. Ditto for an on-deck hitter who isn't the next scheduled hitter. Reason A real-life manager would see these things and be able to make proactive decisions. Priority Let's say medium -- a 5 or 6. I'd certainly consider it helpful, but maybe other folks don't need that kind of prompting. Suggestion 7 The option for teams to have home and road uniforms and (perhaps) variations thereon. Reason Just for fun -- variety, spice of life, etc. It's clear that lots of OOTP users enjoy messing with uniform templates and such.... Priority Pretty low. Let's say 3 -- also just for fun. Suggestion 8 A "Show bunt" option. Reason Because sometimes that's what you want a player to do, perhaps to induce the opposing third baseman to play in, in a situation where you don't want the hitter to actually lay down a bunt. Priority Low: this would probably be a 1. Thanks for indulging me to this point. Please forgive my newness and the length of this post, and also if I've violated some suggestion-posting protocol. Also if I'm retreading old ground.

01-29-2008, 04:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
johnnybourbon Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: addison, il Posts: 269	I wouldn't assign the same priorities to any of your issues, for i don't play out any games. I'm sim only. Well written post, regardless. __________________ And so we go, on with our lives We know the truth, but prefer lies Lies are simple, simple is bliss Why go against tradition when we can Admit defeat, live in decline Be the victim of our own design The status quo, built on suspect Why would anyone stick out their neck?

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01-30-2008, 02:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
shercot Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	I'd like to respond to wlight1's replies, but I haven't figured out how to quote properly on this board yet, so bear with me. I'm sure it's less trouble than I actually went to.... Me: The ability to undo decisions -- not to undo the actual plays led to by those decisions, though. You: This I don't actually understand. What decisions do you make during a live game that don't have immediate consequences? I can't think of anything off-hand, what do you mean? Sign misinterpretation is the only way I can think of at the moment for, say, a pitcher to deliberately drill a batter despite being instructed throw a pitchout. I realize that people do miss signs, but when you think you're pressing a key for one action and something entirely different happens, that's just too weird. So maybe I do mean that we should be able to undo the actual plays. I'm thinking of things like deliberately hitting a batter when you meant to visit the mound. That could be fixed, I think, by always having a given number correspond to a decision -- like, maybe 8 should always be "visit mound," rather than only in certain baserunner/out situations. That would be for the benefit of those, like me, who are too lazy to look at the decision options before every pitch to make sure nothing has changed. Does that make any more sense than before? Me: Occasional reminders, say, to get somebody up in the bullpen when appropriate. You: I feel like this would get more irritating than anything else. Mind you, I don't use the bullpen warmup feature at all anyway. I only use it because it to me it seems sort of unfair to be able to spontaneously bring in the exact pitcher you want in a given situation. Maybe that sounds nuts; I guess one example might be this: Let's say you're holding back your one-out lefty specialist until that exact moment when, in the bottom of the ninth with two outs and the tying run on, your opponent brings in his lefty slugger. Yeah, that's when you'd want your lefty specialist in there, but -- and this is only an opinion and a preference -- I feel that you, the in-game manager, should anticipate this and should already have had your specialist up and throwing in plenty of time to be ready. In real life, your pitcher can't be "retroactively ready." Probably the overall effect is slight, but using a warmup rule helps me keep my head in the game better than not using the rule. Me: [reminders] such as "You realize you're putting your only backup catcher in as a pinch-hitter in the third inning, right?" (Or something more likely and less silly.) You: I think the more important priority is teaching the AI to realize that this is actually a bad idea in the first place so my Gump of an AI manager doesn't do it when I sim my games. You're on to something there. Yesterday, for instance, my goofball opponent intentionally walked one of my hitters at maybe the stupidest time possible, basically ushering in defeat. It was exactly the kind of move that would have a real-life manager desperately trying to cover for his own ineptitude by yelling at the press corps after the game for daring to question him about it. Another factor, though, is that sometimes there's a really good reason (not that I can think of one right now...) that you might want to do something weird, like putting in a marginally faster pinch-runner for the pinch-hitter who just reached base, thus perhaps hamstringing yourself for the eighth or ninth inning, by which time you may have run out of bench players. (Go back to October 2003 and ask Felipe Alou....) That's why I think the "Are you sure about this move?" prompt might be a good idea. Me: At the "behind the scenes" level, perhaps it'd be useful to have reminders along the lines of "Jones is due to come off the DL in two days." You: Maybe, but how would it distinguish between significant reminders and ones that would merely further clog my inbox? I'd suggest a customizable calendar feature where you could set your own reminders. That's something I find myself frequently wishing for (as I jot down notes on a pad next to the machine). Yeah, I could jot down notes too, but I don't -- although real-life managers often do. Maybe I should -- or, heck, I could use a reminder program or iCal or something. And maybe putting this kind of function into OOTP would bloat it unnecessarily. I don't know. To answer your actual question, I'm thinking along the lines of one of those pop-up boxes that tell you that a player's eligible to come off the DL that day. Me: Communication between you (as the in-game manager) and your coaches, and between you and your trainer. * Coach: It'd be nice to get a message from your pitching coach... that a pitcher in the pen is or is not ready to enter a game. * Trainer: With day-to-day injuries, it's hard to know if a player really can or cannot play on a given day -- especially if you're told that a guy has a day-to-day injury that'll last a week or two. So perhaps the occasional communiqué from the trainer [would help]. * Also shouldn't a player be able to something like "I've got the flu, Skip -- I'd better sit this one out"? You: Can't comment on the bullpen functionality, as I said I don't use that feature, so I don't know how you're intended to judge the readiness of a reliever to come in. But on the trainer side, I don't think that's the way dtd injuries work. They come with an inherent production hit, so your guy would be day-to-day for 1-2 weeks with a 13% penalty to effectiveness. This is somewhat unrealistic implementation but works fairly well (I'm also under the impression that playing a guy with a dtd ouchie comes with some risk of a more permanent injury, or did that idea not hold over from previous versions?). So your player really can play on a given day -- and we know what the downside is. Injuries in OOTP are very transparent. * Unless I just haven't looked closely enough at the manual, the only way I can think of to know if a pitcher's ready is to keep checking the "[Your Team] Substitutions" page to see whether it says "Cold," "Warming Up," or "Ready" next to his name. That's not a bad thing, mind you. It's just that I might well get caught up in what's going on on the field at a crucial moment and then forget to warm up a reliever soon enough, or I might want to bring in a guy before he's ready. My suggestion about the message from the coach is the rough equivalent of a bullpen coach waving his cap. * Now that I think of it, you're probably right that my idea about day-to-day injuries wouldn't track with the way OOTP actually works. You do get a visual cue -- the yellow cross -- to let you know that a player's not at his best, so maybe that's as good as it gets. I don't know if a guy can get knocked out for a game or two or three and then be day to day, but that's where a message from the trainer might help. Me: In-game notification of an opposing pitcher getting up in the bullpen, or sitting down. Ditto for an on-deck hitter who isn't the next scheduled hitter. You: While I certainly agree with your reasoning here, I'm of the understanding that the AI doesn't currently use the warmup rule. So there wouldn't be a way to put that into play. I also get the impression that the AI doesn't make substitution plans in advance, so advising you that there's a PH on deck would require more programming than it might seem. If it's true that the AI manager doesn't use the warmup rule, I just plain missed it. Doesn't seem fair, though, because if you use the warmup rule, you're "notifying" the AI manager, right? It's been years since I've played it, but I think Diamond Mind gives that advance notice, at least about pitchers warming up; either way, I don't know what kind of effort it'd take to add this functionality. Also, it does occur to me that if I don't have to place a guy in the on-deck circle, the AI guy shouldn't either. Me: The option for teams to have home and road uniforms and (perhaps) variations thereon. You: That'd be really good. I agree with both of us. The whole thing with uniforms and faces is a ball, and it'd be fun to see it put to use on a home/road basis -- but then, I don't know what kind of programming this would take, especially with the faces, because I'm envisioning slightly different pictures (as opposed to the exact same pose and expression, but different uniforms, on both home and road pictures). What made me think of this part was the fact that, when approached by the AI, I traded my 37-year-old "ace" (who'd been pitching miserably for two months) for a 34-year-old first baseman of the post-1999 Will Clark variety plus about half a dozen good prospects.(I mean, I figure I cleaned up on the deal, because with about 50 games left in the season, I'm not gonna make up a 15-game deficit, and that pitcher won't be an "ace" for long.) Once the trade went through... well, I won't even mention that the pitcher threw seven innings of shutout ball in his first start for the new team, so instead I'll say that while he was on my team, his picture had this really sour, sort of crazed expression, but in the new picture, he's beaming... while my first baseman's picture went from smiling to just sort of looking at the camera. Me: A "show bunt" option. You: That would also be cool. Pretty intricate strategy options there. I think that may be another Diamond Mind thing. It's not as though it always pays off, but sometimes you wanna bring in the other team's third baseman. Another thing I noticed is that, unless I'm forgetting something, you can't attempt to bunt for a hit with runners on. I don't know if that's a big deal, though.