More innings for closers?

[Kemp]

I've been playing with my league settings in order to get closers (theoretically the best RP on a given team) more innings. What I'm seeing is that the AI tends to wait for save situations for closers and, as such, they're often throwing much fewer innings that mediocre pitchers in the pen.

For example, in the last test sim I ran the best RP in the league threw a total of 60 innings on the season while rp's on the same team threw:
102 ip, 3.03 era
99 ip, 5.35 era
66 ip, 5.48 era

The current settings (after much tinkering):
Use or relievers - Normal (does "relievers" include closers? I had this set lower but my SP's were throwing too many innings)
Use of closers - Very Often
Pitcher endurance - Normal (I fooled around with this setting a lot as well)
PH for pitchers - Rarely (did this to try to get the SP's to go longer hoping the AI would go straight to the closers later in the game)

Has anyone had any luck with getting the computer managers to use their closers more often??

[ctorg]

I do wish the game had different settings for closer usage. I'd like to see it where you can set closer usage to emulate various periods. Bill James came up with a few distinct ways of using closers in his Historical Baseball Abstract. It would be cool to be able to set it so that you could have a 1970s-like closer who comes in more often and pitches longer, for instance.

[Long_Long_Name]

I've been calling for a remodeling of bullpen for a while, and even suggested my own way of having it be done. Anyway, I don't know how to do it for computer teams - for my own team, I put my best reliever in the #1 spot for middle relief, setup and closer. That way, he doesn't improve his efficient use rate, but in raw numbers he does pitch in important situations more often.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Kemp

I've been playing with my league settings in order to get closers (theoretically the best RP on a given team) more innings. What I'm seeing is that the AI tends to wait for save situations for closers and, as such, they're often throwing much fewer innings that mediocre pitchers in the pen.

For example, in the last test sim I ran the best RP in the league threw a total of 60 innings on the season while rp's on the same team threw:
102 ip, 3.03 era
99 ip, 5.35 era
66 ip, 5.48 era

The current settings (after much tinkering):
Use or relievers - Normal (does "relievers" include closers? I had this set lower but my SP's were throwing too many innings)
Use of closers - Very Often
Pitcher endurance - Normal (I fooled around with this setting a lot as well)
PH for pitchers - Rarely (did this to try to get the SP's to go longer hoping the AI would go straight to the closers later in the game)

Has anyone had any luck with getting the computer managers to use their closers more often??

Closers averaged 67 innings in the NL in 2007. High of 84 low of 57. More than half the closers pitched in other roles adding to their total innings pitched.

Only 6 of 17 (one team had an even split = 2 closers), closers led their bullpens in innings.

Of these 3 were part time closers who pitched in non-save situations. Typically closers were the 3rd or 4th reliever based on innings pitched. That seems to fit what you posted above.

I took a quick look at my solo league and closers fit the pattern above. Seems like Markus got it pretty close for modern MLB leagues.

I think set up men for the last decade have typically pitched more innings than closers. Even if the closer is the best RP (questionable IMO), it seems that they are underused.

This may be a media thing, managers will avoid tiring out their closer so that they never have to answer questions about why the guy was not available.

[Scott Vibert]

In previous versions, the number of innings depended heavily on role. The #1 Setup guy seemed to be a good bet to get the most innings out of the pen (particularly if there wasn't a #2 guy).

[lencombs]

I cringe when my middle releivers have to come in.. I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum..leave my starters in.. my relievers always blow the game....

I can get 6 or 7 innings from my starters...and a lock down in the 9th...bum,bling idiots between there vost me a dozen losses...

[rwd59]

Originally Posted by RchW

I took a quick look at my solo league and closers fit the pattern above. Seems like Markus got it pretty close for modern MLB leagues.

Modern leagues yes. Historical leagues no.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by rwd59

Modern leagues yes. Historical leagues no.

The problem, as far as I see it, is not that it can't mirror real life properly, but that the underlying system isn't malleable. It's one thing to be able to tell OOTP to use my relievers using Historical Option A, but if I want to use my relievers in a way that just happens never to have been used in MLB, well, I'm screwed.

[Kemp]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

The problem, as far as I see it, is not that it can't mirror real life properly, but that the underlying system isn't malleable. It's one thing to be able to tell OOTP to use my relievers using Historical Option A, but if I want to use my relievers in a way that just happens never to have been used in MLB, well, I'm screwed.

Right. I didn't come out and say, "OOTP is messed up", I'm simply trying to figure out a way to get the closers in the league to throw more innings. I'm seeing too many guys with 5.50 era's throwing 100 innings while relief aces are throwing 55 innings with a 2.20 era.

I was just hoping that maybe with some combination of settings, people were able to replicate the 70's/80's type usage of "closers".

[YankeePride]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

I've been calling for a remodeling of bullpen for a while, and even suggested my own way of having it be done. Anyway, I don't know how to do it for computer teams - for my own team, I put my best reliever in the #1 spot for middle relief, setup and closer. That way, he doesn't improve his efficient use rate, but in raw numbers he does pitch in important situations more often.

This is what I would like to do as well but the issue I've had is the lack of Middle Relief spots in the Pitching Screen.

If I run with a 11 man bullpen and place my Closer in the Top Relief, Setup, and Closer spot then I decrease the number of spots I have for my other relievers and their importance to my team. It gets even worse if my setup is like this:

Long Relief
1. Long Reliever
2.

Middle Relief
1. Setup Man
2. Closer
3. Top MR
4. Next Top MR

Setup
1. Closer
2. Setup Man
3.
4.

Closer
1. Closer
2. Setup Man

What do I do with my other reliever? How am I assured that he'll get innings? I don't want him to be a setup man so where do I put him? It's limiting.

I think it would be better if instead of having slots we can just assign the position on that screen.

So I can look at my the names of my pitching roster and place a S1 next to the top starter. S2 next to the next starter. MR1 for whoever I want as the first option as a middle reliever. And with this system we could have that number go all the way up to infinity. It'll just add +1 to the guy you list as the next highest MR or Starter, etc.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Scott Vibert

In previous versions, the number of innings depended heavily on role. The #1 Setup guy seemed to be a good bet to get the most innings out of the pen (particularly if there wasn't a #2 guy).

Wasnt usually a need for a #2 setup guy. Everytime, what I see, if a guy is the #2 setup only, he gets about 3-5 IP a MONTH. I always put the #2 setup man as either #1 or #2 at MR, just to make sure he gets actual IP.

[spark240]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I do wish the game had different settings for closer usage. I'd like to see it where you can set closer usage to emulate various periods.

I'd like to just throw away the "closer" position entirely, and have fully flexible patterns for using all my relievers.

[karadur]

A slider setting similar to the strats for specific innings and situations would solve these problems.
7-8th inning/Close Set Up #1
7-8th inning/3-4 runs MR #2
etc.

[voxpoptart]

Until the RP usage improves, I have found exactly one way to get the best relievers in the league pitching a good amount of innings. I use it, but you probably won't want to. The way is this:

I frequently -- dozens of times per season, since my work is automatically undone within days -- fix each team's bullpen usage so that, if the best relievers are rested, they are given multiple roles: the Closer as #1 Setup person, the Setup men doubling as top middle relievers. Actual middle relievers who are tired, I remove from each team's staff assignments altogether.

It works pretty well: the IP leaders among relievers will usually consist of a few very good pitchers tossing 90+ IP each, and the closers, if at all durable, will end up around 75IP. The best relievers also tend to get higher-leverage situations this way (although sometimes they'll be called in to pitch the final innings of 10-1 blowouts -- i don't think that's a fixable side effect).

For the record, I also fiddle with teams' pitching rotations so that sometimes they rush their best starters on three days' rest, if the starters are durable and the bullpen can take it. It's a compromise: I kind of accept the 5-man rotation, but don't see why no one wants a Tom Seaver or Steve Carlton anymore. Several pitchers a year barrel past the 36GS and 250 IP marks.

Is this time-consuming? Of course. It promotes a high level of involvement and familiarity with all the teams in the league, and to me that's a good thing; I've noticed a lot of threads asking "How can I get to know my league better?", and this is one answer. But if OOTP9 allows me to just set every team for 1970s "stopper"-style bullpen usage, I'll give this habit up in a heartbeat.