Disappointed

[Dactyl]

I must say I'm disappointed in OOTP Developments. When I purchased OOTP8, I didn't realize that I was basically purchasing a beta version, and that's just what it is because there are some obvious bugs that are not being addressed. I've reported a few of them in the past. Another one, by way of example. In my most recent game, it's June. I have a young, star player who is becoming eligible for free agency. He wants a two-year deal that will pay him $12 million and I have $24 million available for player and staff signings according to the Finance screen but I'm told that I have no more funds available for contract extensions when I try to extend the player. And, no, I don't have any ballooning contracts in future seasons that might impact this signing.

Here's another bug. When you begin a Quick Start game, major league option, there will be players who have been designated for assignment and have zero days left on the waiver wire. The program won't let you remove the players or keep them on waivers. You're forced to release them. I could go on, but I've made my point. The only way to get these fixed is to buy OOTP9. In other words, I will have to pay to have the bugs in my current version fixed. I feel like I've been ripped off. Not in a major way, but ripped off nonetheless.

[ctorg]

The first issue you mentioned probably has to do with the non-straightforward way in which the game calculates how much money you have for things. Having enough money for player and staff signings is different than having enough money for extensions. I won't pretend that I can fully explain it, though.

The second one is a problem with the quickstart, which I don't know much about.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by ctorg

The first issue you mentioned . . .

Under League Setup, Financial Rules, Team Owner Controls Budget, do you have it set for the owner or yourself?

Team Owner Controls Budget?

Determines whether or not the team owner controls the budget. Either the team owner controls the budget, and the general manager has limited use of money, or the team’s entire revenue is available to the general manager.

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

I must say I'm disappointed in OOTP Developments. When I purchased OOTP8, I didn't realize that I was basically purchasing a beta version, and that's just what it is because there are some obvious bugs that are not being addressed. I've reported a few of them in the past. Another one, by way of example. In my most recent game, it's June. I have a young, star player who is becoming eligible for free agency. He wants a two-year deal that will pay him $12 million and I have $24 million available for player and staff signings according to the Finance screen but I'm told that I have no more funds available for contract extensions when I try to extend the player. And, no, I don't have any ballooning contracts in future seasons that might impact this signing.

Here's another bug. When you begin a Quick Start game, major league option, there will be players who have been designated for assignment and have zero days left on the waiver wire. The program won't let you remove the players or keep them on waivers. You're forced to release them. I could go on, but I've made my point. The only way to get these fixed is to buy OOTP9. In other words, I will have to pay to have the bugs in my current version fixed. I feel like I've been ripped off. Not in a major way, but ripped off nonetheless.

On the first one, you're looking at the current year's budget to calculate next year's money. The extensions screen is using next year's money. It sounds like you have some backloaded contracts that are coming to roost, or you've already signed some extensions. When it comes to extensions, the informations on the front office screen is moot, because that's information for the present while extensions affect your future.

[Dactyl]

I definitely don't have any backloaded contracts. I don't offer such contracts and I don't trade for players who have them. As for the financial settings, that's well and good. Whatever the settings are, it should be clear just how much money I have to work with.

That isn't really the issue though. I cited those two problems as examples. I could give more. The point is that the bugs in OOTP8 aren't being addressed by the developers. I can understand that there will be problems in software when it is released to the public, but a developer is ethically bound to remedy those problems. That's part of the implicit contract I make with him when I purchase his product.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

I definitely don't have any backloaded contracts. I don't offer such contracts and I don't trade for players who have them. As for the financial settings, that's well and good. Whatever the settings are, it should be clear just how much money I have to work with.

That isn't really the issue though. I cited those two problems as examples. I could give more. The point is that the bugs in OOTP8 aren't being addressed by the developer. I can understand that there will be problems in software when it is released to the public, but a developer is ethically bound to remedy those problems. That's part of the implicit contract I make with him when I purchase his product.

Depending on when you got the product, once Markus said Final patch, that pretty much ended any development of the product, if you somehow made a diffrent contract that what the rest of us got, then you should take it up with him the same way you got that implicit contract. Markus was either happy with the game he put out or desided it was time to move on, and no more work will be done on it. If you somehow hired Markus to be your personal programmer to fix the game to your liking can you get him to put in more customizable playoffs?

[jm47048]

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but the problems that you mention are minor. The game functions, has reasonable realisitc performance, and depth not seen in any competition. Now... read your license agreement. I am positive that ther is a quote in there that reads something like the following:

"The developer makes no warrenties as to the performance of the computer program, any damange it might do to your system, and shal not be held responsible for any such damage."

I work in software. To say that there is such a thing as bug-free software is a bogus and illogical statement. It doesn't exist. Get over it. Or don't by the next one. But, I can tell you from experience, you won't be happy with any other product.

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by jm47048

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but the problems that you mention are minor. The game functions, has reasonable realisitc performance, and depth not seen in any competition. Now... read your license agreement. I am positive that ther is a quote in there that reads something like the following:

"The developer makes no warrenties as to the performance of the computer program, any damange it might do to your system, and shal not be held responsible for any such damage."

I work in software. To say that there is such a thing as bug-free software is a bogus and illogical statement. It doesn't exist. Get over it. Or don't by the next one. But, I can tell you from experience, you won't be happy with any other product.

Well put.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by jm47048

To say that there is such a thing as bug-free software is a bogus and illogical statement. It doesn't exist.

May be true in the software you have.

[Qrusher14242]

the only bug i have i cant import any games from the old versions, just crashes everytime. Other than that it works fine

[DreamTeams]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

the only bug i have i cant import any games from the old versions, just crashes everytime. Other than that it works fine

Same here.

[BusterKing]

Lets be honest here, declaring that it is a "final" patch for a version just means more money coming for the following release which is really the very same game with some bugs fixed and sometimes a face lift. In this game, there is so much that needs to be fixed that it can go on for years and without a "final" patch it would only mean no new money coming in.


But I don't really care, I buy every version anyways.

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by jm47048

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but the problems that you mention are minor. The game functions, has reasonable realisitc performance, and depth not seen in any competition. Now... read your license agreement. I am positive that ther is a quote in there that reads something like the following:

"The developer makes no warrenties as to the performance of the computer program, any damange it might do to your system, and shal not be held responsible for any such damage."

I work in software. To say that there is such a thing as bug-free software is a bogus and illogical statement. It doesn't exist. Get over it. Or don't by the next one. But, I can tell you from experience, you won't be happy with any other product.

Game crashes due to the quickstart isn't a minor issue, and it's happening to alot of people who try to use it. Makes me wonder if the quickstart was play tested at all.

Yada yada yada.

[ctorg]

The thing with OOTP is that it isn't really any more buggy than most other games (at least complex ones), but it offers a lot more.

[SamP]

If you're still paying attention to that second problem, you don't need to release those players. You have to mess around with it for a little while but basically all you have to do is put another person on the waivers/designated for assignment giving you an opening spot on your roster, or setting your regular roster size to 26 players, hence still giving you one open roster spot. Then you take the player who has no days left for assignment/waivers and move them onto your major league roster and then right back onto designated/waivers. After you do this you will have an open roster spot again and you can do this with all players who you need to reset on the waivers/designated for assignment, then, when all players are good and dandy you can bring that player you had to move onto designated for assignment back on your team or set the roster size back to 25 players.

[Dactyl]

I have to concur that there are major problems with OOTP8. Just try playing a Quick Start major-league game. Or, for another example, go to a team's BA Top Prospects report and click on one of those prospects names. That will cause a crash to the desktop. Those kinds of things should be fixed. I'm sorry, but that's a poor way to treat your customers. I'm a software developer as well and it has been the practice everywhere that I've worked to fix significant bugs. Anything else is poor practice and there are any number of texts on software development practices that will tell you so.

I'm not saying that I don't like OOTP's sim and I can understand that they are basically just a couple of guys working on a product that would likely employ several elsewhere. However, the customer should be considered. If they want to operate the way they're operating now, they might do better with a annual subscription model. You pay X amount each year and get all patches, updates and new versions that come out during that time period. That way their customers wouldn't feel cheated when one version is just abandoned in favor of a new one. I for one wouldn't mind paying such a subscription.

[Who Killed Kenny?]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

If they want to operate the way they're operating now, they might do better with a annual subscription model. You pay X amount each year and get all patches, updates and new versions that come out during that time period. That way their customers wouldn't feel cheated when one version is just abandoned in favor of a new one. I for one wouldn't mind paying such a subscription.

I recall MH saying that e-license won't allow subscription based licenses. If they did then I would strongly concur with you on that facet.

But I don't blame them for not being able to fix all bugs. Anytime you add complexity to a program the likelihood of bugs increase. And since OOTP is only a 2.5 person shop its hard to catch and fix every bug. I actually think they do an excellent job. Over the past year they've given us 3 patches (for 2007) and OOTP 8 (which I didn't get). IMHO the game is very stable, and the problems I do have are minimized by my care to save and backup frequently (as one should do any time they have "critical" information on one's computer, be it OOTP or pictures of one's last vacation).

Markus and Andreas have to pay their bills by selling games. They can't be patching the 2007/8 game when they need to coding 9. They have to draw the line somewhere and they were very clear that there would be no patches after 8. After all, how will they pay the bills or take their girlfriends out for dinner? So until the licensing company that they use supports subscriptions we will have to make do with what we have. In my opinion its really not that bad.

[BaseballMan]

well arent the patches and updates pretty much free anyway?
And as for new versions whats the difference between buying a new version and having a yearly subscription? The price might be a little lower but they usually offer a discount.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

well arent the patches and updates pretty much free anyway?
And as for new versions whats the difference between buying a new version and having a yearly subscription? The price might be a little lower but they usually offer a discount.

All patches offered by OOTP have been free. As for why they have us pay for updates, that's not something I can answer.

I don't think OOTP has the responsibility to offer previous customers a discount. It would be nice, for sure, though, if the pre-ordering price was permanent with a valid license of the previous version. But, they could buy me lunch, too, and I'd be happy - I'm just not expecting it.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

All patches offered by OOTP have been free. As for why they have us pay for updates, that's not something I can answer.

I don't think OOTP has the responsibility to offer previous customers a discount. It would be nice, for sure, though, if the pre-ordering price was permanent with a valid license of the previous version. But, they could buy me lunch, too, and I'd be happy - I'm just not expecting it.

yeah thats what i was thinking. I just didnt get the idea of a subscription
since the only thing your paying for is a new game, theres nothing that you
would be getting cheaper with a subscription. Thank God Markus isnt like some companies and charge you to edit players or for a historical roster.
But as far as i know the only update i can remember paying for was 6.5 and that was worth the money. I dont really count ootp8 because i got the discount and it was only like $8.00.