[MojaveNC]

Anyone have any thoughts on how to best run relegation/promotion scenarios?

I'm 13 seasons into a self-built relegation scenario, setup as follows:

MLB: 40 teams, plus AAA, AA and Single-A feeders. Worst team from AL and NL go down.
AAA PLB: 40 teams, plus AAA and AA feeders. Best team from PCL and IL go up (with a one-season grace period where they can't be relegated, although this surprisingly doesn't come into play very often) and worst team from PCL and IL go down.
AA Intermountain League: 24 teams, no feeders. Best team goes up with a one-season grace, worst team goes down.
AA Great River League: 24 teams, no feeders. Best team goes up, worst team goes down.
Single-A: 32 teams, no feeders. Best two teams go up with a one-season grace.

Outside of this universe I have college, Japan+one feeder and Venezuela, although I may get rid of the college league soon.

It worked great until I quit my successful MLB team and took over a PLB team. When I got promoted to the majors, I lost all my minor league affiliates —*and the players that were on them. Had to go into commissioner mode and give me my prospects back!

Anyone else have experience running promotion/relegation scenarios? Any thoughts, feedback or suggestions?

[Who Killed Kenny?]

I don't run a promotion/relegation league (nor will I until the game supports it). But here is a suggestion: Make the lower leagues independent, not AAA-AA-A. Then instead of feeder leagues use minor leagues. I did, once, move minor league teams from one league to another with out losing affiliation. I don't know what happens to affilation if you move the parent team. Resolving the indy league problem may fix it, but I'm not sure. Let us know!

[MojaveNC]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

But here is a suggestion: Make the lower leagues independent, not AAA-AA-A. Then instead of feeder leagues use minor leagues.

Don't understand what you mean by independent. Are you saying, make them all at the major league level in the league setup screen?

[Who Killed Kenny?]

Isn't there a category for "Independant" or maybe its "International"? I can't remember and I'm at work where, alas, there is no OOTP.

[theasfl]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

Isn't there a category for "Independant" or maybe its "International"? I can't remember and I'm at work where, alas, there is no OOTP.

Theres an international category, no independent. For the system to work best they need to be at the same level one way or another. You can set the league settings accordingly to get the quality of the league to a lower-tier status.

[Who Killed Kenny?]

The reason I say put it at International is because Free Agents will value a Major League team higher than an International team. Yet they would still be "top" leagues.

[dim13]

I use promotion/relegation. I am really glad Markus gave us this option in the game. I did it manually in OOTP65 and it was kind of a pain. Now it's not much of a chore.

I have 10 Levels in my Baseball Universe.

Level 1 (20 teams) - 2 leagues with 10 teams each league (plus 1 wild card each league).
- the 2 10th place teams play in a relegation game at the end of the season - loser relegated. I schedule the game as an exhibition game after the season.

Levels 2-10 (10 teams each level). Playoffs - 1 wild card, best of 5 series, winner promoted. 10th place team automatically relegated.

Level 10 - 10th place team is replaced with a brand new team. This keeps the game fresh with new blood added each year.

At first I deleted the 10th place team in level 10 and recreated a new team - but after playing 45 years, the new team always finished last and only lasted 1 season. I restarted my game and now just replace the team name, logos, etc. with the new team coming in the league - all players are kept.

I have the league paramters/attributes set up perfectly in each league so the players are better at each higher level. The team promoted usually finishes near the bottom the next year at the higher level, and the team relegated usually finishes near the top in the lower league the following year.

I started with my team in Level 10 and it's a real challange to get promoted each year and avoid relegation once promoted.

[johnnybourbon]

Originally Posted by dim13

I use promotion/relegation. I am really glad Markus gave us this option in the game. I did it manually in OOTP65 and it was kind of a pain. Now it's not much of a chore.

I have 10 Levels in my Baseball Universe.

Level 1 (20 teams) - 2 leagues with 10 teams each league (plus 1 wild card each league).
- the 2 10th place teams play in a relegation game at the end of the season - loser relegated. I schedule the game as an exhibition game after the season.

Levels 2-10 (10 teams each level). Playoffs - 1 wild card, best of 5 series, winner promoted. 10th place team automatically relegated.

Level 10 - 10th place team is replaced with a brand new team. This keeps the game fresh with new blood added each year.

At first I deleted the 10th place team in level 10 and recreated a new team - but after playing 45 years, the new team always finished last and only lasted 1 season. I restarted my game and now just replace the team name, logos, etc. with the new team coming in the league - all players are kept.

I have the league paramters/attributes set up perfectly in each league so the players are better at each higher level. The team promoted usually finishes near the bottom the next year at the higher level, and the team relegated usually finishes near the top in the lower league the following year.

I started with my team in Level 10 and it's a real challange to get promoted each year and avoid relegation once promoted.

gosh. thats a doozy of a universe. I would never be able to keep it up. Just one question...do you have any outstanding players that don't make the leaderboards/HOF b/c their team doesnt consistently stay at a single level?

[dim13]

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

gosh. thats a doozy of a universe. I would never be able to keep it up. Just one question...do you have any outstanding players that don't make the leaderboards/HOF b/c their team doesnt consistently stay at a single level?

I usually only pay attention to stats at Level 1, or the level where my team is currently playing at. I wrote a VB.NET application to load all stats into an Access .mdb. It deletes all players that never make it to Level 1 after they retire. I usually only view Level 1 League Leaders, all-time stats/records, etc using my VB.NET program, only view stats in the OOTP game during the season. I also have the program generate an Excel spreadsheet after each season with tons of stats, records, history, upcoming draft order to aid me, and manual changes I need to make the following year regarding promotion/relegation.

I forgot to mention each team has a AAA, AA, A minor league system, which are kept intake as they are promoted/relegated. I don't believe in promoting/relegating a minor league team. The minor leagues are there to help the parent club only, not to function as an independant team, otherwise you'd be able to manipulate the outcome and future of other indepenedant ("minor league") teams by moving your promising young talent up to your team and demoting an your aging player.

[johnnybourbon]

how do you do ammy drafts?

[dim13]

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

how do you do ammy drafts?

Is ammy draft the amateur draft ?

My preference is to have the draft on March 1st instead of during the season. FAs can not sign with teams outside of the league - this restricts FA players and draftees to stay within their own level. Each level has their own draft pool.

There is a place in the league setup to adjust newly created player's attribute levels. I setup the league adjustments so the higher levels will have better players in the draft pool. Level 10 has really bad players in the draft pool, which is comparable to Level 10.

I have a reverse draft order from pro sports. The higher you finish in the standings, the higher your draft picks. In a level with 10 teams (Levels 2-10), the newly promoted team into the level drafts 10th, the team relegated into the level drafts 9th (the brand new team in Level 10 has the 10th pick). Picks 1-8 are based on how the teams finished in the standings.

For Level 1, the team that wins the "World Series" will draft 1st (even if team was the WC), the loser drafts 2nd, followed by the other 2 playoff teams, then followed by how the teams finished in the standings - ties are broken by teams finishes in prior years, not by WL record. My goal is to create dynasties vs parity, and to make it harder for promoted teams to thrive in the new league. After about 10-15 years or so, dynasties are created. My opinion of the draft order, you shouldn't be punished for doing better than other teams in your league/level, and vise-versa. I don't care for parity in my baseball universe. Higher draft picks are the team's reward for a good season. (Note: I have financials turned off, otherwise I might reward cash to the WS winner).

I don't remember if I have 5 or 10 rounds. I usually autopick after the 2nd or 3rd round. FAs do not move between levels and teams can not trade with a team in another level.

[MojaveNC]

Originally Posted by dim13

I use promotion/relegation. I am really glad Markus gave us this option in the game. I did it manually in OOTP65 and it was kind of a pain. Now it's not much of a chore.

Level 10 - 10th place team is replaced with a brand new team. This keeps the game fresh with new blood added each year.

At first I deleted the 10th place team in level 10 and recreated a new team - but after playing 45 years, the new team always finished last and only lasted 1 season. I restarted my game and now just replace the team name, logos, etc. with the new team coming in the league - all players are kept.

Have you considered the grace period of maybe 1 year to give them a chance?

As I said, it's rarely come into play with my scenario, but it has been an important buffer in some cases.

Incidentally, I'm in season 14 of my scenario... for the first time, I relegated a franchise that started at MLB (Cincinnati Reds) down to Double-A. I've had a couple drop from Triple-A to Single-A, but the Reds have the dubious distinction of the greatest fall from grace.

Overall, we've had the following movement between MLB and PLB:


Down* Denotes the team has successfully played its way back to MLB after relegation)

Boston*, Cincinnati, San Diego*, St. Louis, Atlanta*, Arizona*, Kansas City*, Santo Domingo*, LA Angels*, Seattle, Toronto, Connecticut, Minnesota*, Charlotte*, Colorado*, Chicago Cubs*, Inland Empire*

Up: (* Denotes the team has been relegated back to PLB at some point after promotion, ** team started scenario in Double-A)

Fresno, Provo**, Birmingham**, Indianapolis, Rochester*, Greensboro, Tacoma, Midland-Odessa**, Portland

What's been interesting to note is the difficulty some large-market teams, such as Monterrey, Tijuana, Mexico City, and Brooklyn have had in getting promoted (or in Toronto's case, brought back up). I have set all the market sizes proportionally, although things are evened out by setting the New York and LA teams' market size to a 5 or 6 to account for the respective five and three teams in the area.