Cooperstown Calling?

[boblight24]

Need some help from the community, the following player is borderline for the HOF. I use the Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor as well as his Black Ink Test. This player is on the border and I can't decided whether he should get in or not, take a look:

ELMER STEELE
1906-1921
SP

Year/Team/League 		 Age  G   GS  W  L  SV ERA       IP  HA   R    ER  HR   BB   K   CG SHO WHIP BABIP VORP 
1906 St. Louis (N) Cardinals      20 24   24 14  9   0  2.18  223.1  182  68   54   2   67 116   22   3 1.11 .264 31.4 
1907 St. Louis - ML 		  21 36   36 24 12   0  2.08  325.0  291 104   75   4   49 121   30   4 1.05 .274 45.2 
1908 St. Louis - ML 		  22 35   35 17 18   0  2.25  311.1  281 105   78   4   72 110   32   3 1.13 .271 33.1 
1909 St. Louis - ML 		  23 39   39 21 16   0  1.91  362.1  321 113   77   4   52 131   34   3 1.03 .273 58.4 
1910 St. Louis - ML 		  24 28   28 12 13   0  3.29  240.2  237 120   88   6   72  70   22   1 1.28 .275 17.8 
1911 St. Louis - ML 		  25 22   18  6 12   0  3.33  146.0  153  82   54   4   44  54   14   0 1.35 .294 17.0 
1912 St. Louis - ML 		  26 38   38 18 18   0  3.53  329.0  381 188  129  14   81 127   31   1 1.40 .318 40.5 
1913 St. Louis - ML 		  27 36   36 14 22   0  3.18  305.2  292 156  108   5   91 120   31   2 1.25 .276 27.2 
1914 St. Louis - ML 		  28 25   15 11  7   0  1.96  146.2  133  48   32   0   47  37   14   2 1.23 .268 32.2 
1915 New York - ML 		  29 39   39 14 20   0  3.42  323.2  331 187  123  10   87 106   27   0 1.29 .282 4.6 
1916 Chicago - ML 		  30 34   34 15 18   0  2.27  293.0  255  98   74   5   56 110   29   5 1.06 .257 53.7 
1917 Detroit - ML 		  31 36   36 20 15   0  2.49  314.0  296 115   87   2   48  94   33   4 1.10 .269 45.2 
1918 Detroit - ML 		  32 22   22  9 13   0  3.17  190.1  184  87   67   4   35  49   19   2 1.15 .270 13.0 
1918 New York - ML 		  32 15   15  4 11   0  3.81  127.2  144  73   54   6   22  30   12   0 1.30 .306 0.9 
1918 Total - ML 		  32 37   37 13 24   0  3.42  318.0  328 160  121  10   57  79   31   2 1.21 .285 13.9 
1919 Chicago - ML 		  33 11   11  5  5   0  3.01   92.2   91  37   31   5   11  17    9   1 1.10 .255 14.2 
1919 New York - ML 		  33 18   18  8  9   0  3.87  153.1  142  76   66   7   26  36   15   0 1.10 .255 7.3 
1919 Total - ML 		  33 29   29 13 14   0  3.55  246.0  233 113   97  12   37  53   24   1 1.10 .255 21.5 
1920 Chicago - ML 		  34 27   27 13 11   0  2.99  223.0  223  93   74  12   28  56   21   3 1.13 .263 50.8 
1921 Chicago - ML 		  35 31   31 27  4   0  2.59  271.1  282  98   78  10   20  64   27   4 1.11 .275 88.5 
Total ML 16 yrs. 		     516 502 252 233 0  2.77 4379.0 4219 1848 1349 104 908 1448 422  38 1.17 .276 581.0

Elmer Steele as the following highlights:
1906 NL Rookie of the Year
1907 Gold Glove @ P
1921 American League Most Outstanding Pitcher
HOF Monitor Score: 47.501 (average HoFer ~ 50)
HOF Black Ink Test: 33 (average HoFer ~ 27)

[eriqjaffe]

How does he compare to other pitchers of his era?

[kckid4u]

I'd say no. He was only the league's Outstanding Pitcher once. That's my opinion.

[CHOWDERHEAD]

I would have to say no, but WOW, what a great final season.

[SittingDuck]

all in all, no

[koohead]

what bothers me is the basically .500 career record and average bb/k ratio. the low ERA, WHIP, and high number of CGs seem to be a product of your league settings...or he played for really crappy teams.

Be interested to see statistics from other pitchers with similar HOF monitor and Black Ink scores.

[Long_Long_Name]

Seems like a yes to me (at leat from the monitor and black ink), but it really depends on your settings.

[boblight24]

			HOF Monitor	  W	  L	  ERA	    K	BB/9IP	H/9IP	    IP	          CG	ShO
Elmer Steele(1906-21)	 47.501 	 252 	 233 	 2.77 	 1,448 	 1.86 	 8.67 	 4,379.0 	 422 	 38 
Red Ames(1903-25) 	 47.759 	 275 	 265 	 3.01 	 2,395 	 3.31 	 8.42 	 4,755.2 	 349 	 28 
Cy Falkenberg(1902-19)	 48.813 	 257 	 223 	 2.80 	 1,804 	 3.08 	 8.04 	 4,387.2 	 420 	 33 
Deacon Philippe(1899-13) 47.879 	 214 	 154 	 2.39 	 1,081 	 1.59 	 8.47 	 3,312.2 	 295 	 27 
Amos Rusie(1889-02)	 47.074 	 245 	 173 	 3.04 	 1,933 	 4.08 	 8.02 	 3,768.0 	 390 	 30 
Jim St Vrain(1901-16)	 43.163 	 238 	 248 	 2.80 	 2,375 	 2.69 	 8.31 	 4,538.1 	 396 	 31

Here are a handful of pitchers from Steele's era that have similar HoF Monitor numbers, I don't have all the black ink tests scores, as I am at work. But some of you mentioned that you wanted to see the teams that Steele played on and they did,

		Elmer Steele's Record		Team Record		
			W	L	 W	 L	Pos
1906	St Louis (N)	14	9	 78	76	4
1907	St Louis (N)	24	12	 73	81	5
1908	St Louis (N)	17	18	 81	73	3
1909	St Louis (N)	21	16	 80	74	3
1910	St Louis (N)	12	13	 80	74	4
1911	St Louis (N)	 6	12	 79	75	2
1912	St Louis (N)	18	18	 79	75	3
1913	St Louis (N)	14	22	 84	70	3
1914	St Louis (N)	11	 7	 78	76	4
1915	New York (N)	14	20	 69	85	7
1916	Chicago (N)	15	18	 74	80	5
1917	Detroit		20	15	 89	65	AL CHAMPS
1918	Detroit		 9	13	 80	74	3
	New York (N)	 4	11	 57	97	8
1919	New York (N)	 8	 9	 65	75	6
	Chicago (A)	 5	 5	 95	45	AL CHAMPS
1920	Chicago (A)	13	11	 91	63	WORLD CHAMPS
1921	Chicago (A)	27	 4	107	47	AL CHAMPS
		252	233			
	* 1918 - traded on 7/25					
	* 1919 - traded on 7/27

Keep in mind that none of the players listed above are in the HoF, yet. One that is an enigma is Jim St Vrain. He has an overall losing record, but in his first 6 seasons in the big leagues, he won 3 Most Outstanding Pitcher Awards, then all of a sudden his loss totals skyrocketed to 22+ for a few seasons. After that he bounced from team to team getting a handful of starts, but mainly worked as a reliever. Tough call, some of the others have incredible stats, but short careers (like Koufax IRL). Take a look, let me know.

[Markus Heinsohn]

I like the VORP scores... so he gets a YES from me

[Manny 14]

No for me

[boblight24]

I swear something else everyday makes me love this game.

I am running a replay from 1901 through 1969, when I take over the Royals. I am not assigning rookies to teams, therefore there is a draft. I'm, as you know, going back and tweaking the HoF. I am looking at the Chicago White Sox, in particular their catchers. It's so freaky how this mirrors real life. The White Sox have Bill Dickey as their primary backstop, he is doing well, but as most catchers do he begins to wear and his attributes suffer. The White Sox have a number of catchers in the minors and they pick one to bring up and soon he replaces Dickey in the line-up. Not long after that Dickey retires. The catcher's name....Yogi Berra.

[Matches]

I too like the VORP numbers. Are there many others currently in the hall with smaller career pitcher VORPs?

If this is a historical-type league with just 16 total teams, I think he's hurt by only winning one WS ring. I personally don't like to hold it against guys for unluckiness of being on poor teams, but if I'm mimicking a HOF voter, they seem to go for that. While he played 16 seasons and by the law of averages in a 16-team league he should win one ring, that doesn't push an otherwise borderline guy over the top.

He gets my vote if there are a couple pitchers with lesser VORPs already in the Hall. Had he won the WS in that final year it would have been hard to say no.