A problem I see with your "pre-ordering" ....

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

Wow!...uh...could you help me with my algebra???

It isn't a dollars and cents issue for me. 15 bucks is not the issue. It was all about the principle of a game being worth a pre-order, when I was disappointed in the last 2 versions(and pre-ordered it!). I am trying to voice the opinion of wanting the old pieces of the game put back in with the inclusion of what was cool from the newer ones. Buying it sight unseen after being burned by the last two made me feel that i should not trust the game til the demo....which what I am going to do. Was just hoping if the demo was out right away, to keep the price at the pre-order price for a week, not for the money savings, but the principle of not having my faith broken again. Hope that makes sense

Sirhawk

Sounds like you sure do invest a lot of yourself in your faith of video games.

[Who Killed Kenny?]

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

Wow!...uh...could you help me with my algebra???

It isn't a dollars and cents issue for me. 15 bucks is not the issue. It was all about the principle of a game being worth a pre-order, when I was disappointed in the last 2 versions(and pre-ordered it!). I am trying to voice the opinion of wanting the old pieces of the game put back in with the inclusion of what was cool from the newer ones. Buying it sight unseen after being burned by the last two made me feel that i should not trust the game til the demo....which what I am going to do. Was just hoping if the demo was out right away, to keep the price at the pre-order price for a week, not for the money savings, but the principle of not having my faith broken again. Hope that makes sense

Sirhawk

I was just thinking of a way to define the value of pre-ordering.


In regards to the demo: it usually is a full version of the game (for OOTP) with a timelimit. If he releases a buggy demo people will be turned off. If he releases the demo first and waits another month before releasing the game, a lot(!!) of people will be mad. Both of those situations are unfavorable for Markus. The way he does it now is the best way for him.

As I stated previously, if you think you'll get $60 worth of enjoyment then pre-order. Its a risk that only you can take.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

The Roman Empire crumbled? Crap, where was I when this happened?

What!? Crap!

On a completely unrelated topic, I've got two tickets to the Marcus Arelius Gaius gladiatorial combat tonight. Row XVI, right by the vomitorium. I'm letting them go CHEEP! Five cisterces each.

[PeeKay53]

Well, let me try to put a little perspective on this for SirHawk. I was in a similiar boat a year ago. I also have every iteration of the game since OOTP 3, and when I got 2006 I was very disappointed. Disappointed enough that I didn't preorder 2007 when it was at a discounted price and decided to wait to play the demo before purchasing. I got the 2007 demo and it was much improved from 2006 and I felt it was worth the purchase, and I of course bought it for the full price. Now I didn't get the discount pre-order because I wanted to see if 2007 was improved, but that was the risk I took. And to be honest, I've played 2007 so much I've recouped the full price and then some already.

My point is that it's completely up to you if you feel it's worth preordering or not. As consumers we have one sure fire way of controlling price points, and that's by not purchasing at all. As has been said before, pre-ordering is a risk/reward benefit for the consumer and for Markus, so it's a two way street. We can't expect Markus to assume all the risk and for us to assume the full benefit.

[TETCHY]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

Let's think about this mathematically:

****Warning MATH Below!!****

Value of pre-ordering: $25
Value of not pre-ordering: $40
Value of enjoying the game: $E
Value of not enjoying the game: $0
Probability of enjoying the game: 1/2. Lets say theres a 50-50 chance that you'll like the next version.

Expected value = (Value of A)*(Prob of A happening) + (Value of B) * (Prob of B happening)

The Expected Value of pre-order is:
= Value of enjoying the pre-order times 1/2 + Value of not enjoying the pre-order times 1/2
= (E - 25)*(1/2) + (0 - 25)*(1/2)
= (E / 2) - (25 / 2) - (25 / 2)
= (E / 2) - 25

The Expected Value of waiting is a little different since you get to view the demo. Let's say that you will NOT get the game if you do not like the demo. Therefore there is close to 100% chance you'll like the game. The expected value is:
= (E - 40)*(1) + (0 - 40)*(0)
= E - 40

The actual difference in price is $15 so in order for pre-ordering to make sense the difference in the Expected Values should be greater that $15.
So what is the difference in Expected Value of Waiting versus Expected Value of Pre-ordering?
15 <= (E - 40) - ((E / 2) - 25)
15 <= E - 40 - (E / 2) + 25
15 <= (E / 2) - 15

Now we solve for E to find the minimum amount of enjoyment you'll need to make pre-order feasible.

15 <= (E / 2) - 15
30 <= E / 2
60 <= E

Therefore, if you think that you'll get at least $60 worth out of the game based on a 50-50 chance that'll you enjoy it, pre-ordering is the best option.
QED.

Ummmm.......wha? OH WAIT!! I think I get it.....errrrrr

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

Let's think about this mathematically:

****Warning MATH Below!!****

Value of pre-ordering: $25
Value of not pre-ordering: $40
Value of enjoying the game: $E
Value of not enjoying the game: $0
Probability of enjoying the game: 1/2. Lets say theres a 50-50 chance that you'll like the next version.

Expected value = (Value of A)*(Prob of A happening) + (Value of B) * (Prob of B happening)

The Expected Value of pre-order is:
= Value of enjoying the pre-order times 1/2 + Value of not enjoying the pre-order times 1/2
= (E - 25)*(1/2) + (0 - 25)*(1/2)
= (E / 2) - (25 / 2) - (25 / 2)
= (E / 2) - 25

The Expected Value of waiting is a little different since you get to view the demo. Let's say that you will NOT get the game if you do not like the demo. Therefore there is close to 100% chance you'll like the game. The expected value is:
= (E - 40)*(1) + (0 - 40)*(0)
= E - 40

The actual difference in price is $15 so in order for pre-ordering to make sense the difference in the Expected Values should be greater that $15.
So what is the difference in Expected Value of Waiting versus Expected Value of Pre-ordering?
15 <= (E - 40) - ((E / 2) - 25)
15 <= E - 40 - (E / 2) + 25
15 <= (E / 2) - 15

Now we solve for E to find the minimum amount of enjoyment you'll need to make pre-order feasible.

15 <= (E / 2) - 15
30 <= E / 2
60 <= E

Therefore, if you think that you'll get at least $60 worth out of the game based on a 50-50 chance that'll you enjoy it, pre-ordering is the best option.
QED.

The answer is = PIE (Then again, "pie" is always the answer for some. Just look at Christy Alley.)

[TETCHY]

Originally Posted by kckid4u

The answer is = PIE (Then again, "pie" is always the answer for some. Just look at Christy Alley.)

Christy Alley? Thats a lot of pie!! I'm not sure I'd want to eat it....

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

Let's think about this mathematically:

****Warning MATH Below!!****

Value of pre-ordering: $25
Value of not pre-ordering: $40
Value of enjoying the game: $E
Value of not enjoying the game: $0
Probability of enjoying the game: 1/2. Lets say theres a 50-50 chance that you'll like the next version.

Expected value = (Value of A)*(Prob of A happening) + (Value of B) * (Prob of B happening)

The Expected Value of pre-order is:
= Value of enjoying the pre-order times 1/2 + Value of not enjoying the pre-order times 1/2
= (E - 25)*(1/2) + (0 - 25)*(1/2)
= (E / 2) - (25 / 2) - (25 / 2)
= (E / 2) - 25

The Expected Value of waiting is a little different since you get to view the demo. Let's say that you will NOT get the game if you do not like the demo. Therefore there is close to 100% chance you'll like the game. The expected value is:
= (E - 40)*(1) + (0 - 40)*(0)
= E - 40

The actual difference in price is $15 so in order for pre-ordering to make sense the difference in the Expected Values should be greater that $15.
So what is the difference in Expected Value of Waiting versus Expected Value of Pre-ordering?
15 <= (E - 40) - ((E / 2) - 25)
15 <= E - 40 - (E / 2) + 25
15 <= (E / 2) - 15

Now we solve for E to find the minimum amount of enjoyment you'll need to make pre-order feasible.

15 <= (E / 2) - 15
30 <= E / 2
60 <= E

Therefore, if you think that you'll get at least $60 worth out of the game based on a 50-50 chance that'll you enjoy it, pre-ordering is the best option.
QED.

I'm not sure, but I think you're telling me to buy two at the regular price to insure myself of a 120% chance of enjoying the game?

Guess I could buy three at the discounted price to get a bit better odds.

**runs off to buy three copies at the discounted rate**

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

Wow!...uh...could you help me with my algebra???

It isn't a dollars and cents issue for me. 15 bucks is not the issue. It was all about the principle of a game being worth a pre-order, when I was disappointed in the last 2 versions(and pre-ordered it!). I am trying to voice the opinion of wanting the old pieces of the game put back in with the inclusion of what was cool from the newer ones. Buying it sight unseen after being burned by the last two made me feel that i should not trust the game til the demo....which what I am going to do. Was just hoping if the demo was out right away, to keep the price at the pre-order price for a week, not for the money savings, but the principle of not having my faith broken again. Hope that makes sense

Sirhawk

It not only makes sense, it is perfectly logical to wait on the demo. The only people that should pre-order are those that are perfectly comfortable with OOTP 2007 / OOTP 8, or taking a risk based on past performance. Anyone else should wait for the demo.

That sort of faith gets rewarded with a discount. The reward for the skeptic is that they get to keep their cash in pocket if they test the demo, and find it lacking.

[cbbl]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

It not only makes sense, it is perfectly logical to wait on the demo. The only people that should pre-order are those that are perfectly comfortable with OOTP 2007 / OOTP 8, or taking a risk based on past performance. Anyone else should wait for the demo.

That sort of faith gets rewarded with a discount. The reward for the skeptic is that they get to keep their cash in pocket if they test the demo, and find it lacking.

You make it sound so simple.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by cbbl

You make it sound so simple.

It is simple, and with that said also very surprising that a forum for a game dealing with strategy, statistical analysis, and overall baseball smarts has people every year that need to have this whole pre-order deal spelled out for them.

[whitesocks]

I was wondering what is the time limit to the pre-order period? I want to buy it but have to wait til I get paid...Don't want to miss it.

[ajsas01]

Originally Posted by TETCHY

Christy Alley? Thats a lot of pie!! I'm not sure I'd want to eat it....

I about fell out of my chair when I read this sentence

[Andy]

Originally Posted by whitesocks

I was wondering what is the time limit to the pre-order period? I want to buy it but have to wait til I get paid...Don't want to miss it.

Up until release day, which has not been announced yet.

[PeeKay53]

Originally Posted by whitesocks

I was wondering what is the time limit to the pre-order period? I want to buy it but have to wait til I get paid...Don't want to miss it.

Per the newsletter, it should be good until the full version of OOTP9 comes out which is sometime in Spring 2008.

[OldeTowneTeam]

Originally Posted by Bobble

On a completely unrelated topic, I've got two tickets to the Marcus Arelius Gaius gladiatorial combat tonight. Row XVI, right by the vomitorium. I'm letting them go CHEEP! Five cisterces each.

Thanks for the offer, Bobble, but what with the price of horse feed these days I just won't be able to scrape together even a measly V cisterces for the tickets.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by PeeKay53

Per the newsletter, it should be good until the full version of OOTP9 comes out which is sometime in Spring 2008.

Keep in mind that the last official day of spring in 2008 is June 19th. So there is something of a large window of time in which "Spring 2008" can refer to...

[ripwalk]

Originally Posted by Sirhawk

I propose that the pre-order discount should stick around for a week after the demo. It isn't about the money more than about the principal....why should I be charged more for a product when the last two versions weren't up to snuff?

I didn't read the rest of the thread yet, so I'm sure someone mentioned this as well.. But last two iterations not up to snuff? Granted, 2006 was a bit botched, but... uhhh, OOTP 2007, Game of the Year? Widely considered by *most* to be a very, very sold game of sim baseball.

It's too bad it's not personally what you are looking for in your perfect baseball simulator, but saying it's not a great game is a bit much.

Also keep in mind this is a business. This is what Markus does for a living. He is giving us all a very good deal here and it's kind of counterintuitive to have a PRE order offer extend after the game has been released, etc.

[Sirhawk]

Originally Posted by ripwalk

I didn't read the rest of the thread yet, so I'm sure someone mentioned this as well.. But last two iterations not up to snuff? Granted, 2006 was a bit botched, but... uhhh, OOTP 2007, Game of the Year? Widely considered by *most* to be a very, very sold game of sim baseball.

It's too bad it's not personally what you are looking for in your perfect baseball simulator, but saying it's not a great game is a bit much.

Also keep in mind this is a business. This is what Markus does for a living. He is giving us all a very good deal here and it's kind of counterintuitive to have a PRE order offer extend after the game has been released, etc.

Well, it comes down to how you play the game. I like to play the games out. The play by play was just not nearly as good.

Consider this:

Play by play hitting streaks, top 10 in batting pitching catagories, not included. (as in 6.5 and below)
No way to tag up from 2nd or 3rd. (as in 6.5 and below)
No sound. (as in 6 and below)
And just a feel I felt was missing.
Those are all things I liked that used to be here and are not anymore. If those and a few more bells/whistles are put back in, then atleast I get back what I thought made the game much more personal. I guess most people don't play the games out....

Sirhawk

[The Wolf]

I'm going to wait until I am sure from user feedback that OOTP9 isn't the new OOTP2006. At that point I'll buy it.