OOTP 10 - Graphics/animation

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Eumel

This is something that can be avoided, though. For instance, you could allow a certain random variation for each play type (i.e. groundout 6-3). For a play type you would then not have a handful of graphical representations, but many many more, by randomly modifying small details. For instance, you could apply some random modification to the hit direction, ball speed, fielder movement, throw velocity, throw accuracy, et cetera. Even player ratings can be included to modify the graphical representation, making the throws of an outfielder with a bad arm look slower, or so. This would give you hundreds of play graphics for one play type already.

Such a 2D representation is a lot of work (especially for such a small team!), but with careful planning, these pitfalls can be avoided. For baseball it is certainly much much easier than for soccer, which cannot be broken up into discrete plays at all. For baseball, you can determine the result of a play first, and then generate a graphical representation that fits. In soccer there are no "plays".

Oh, sure, absolutely. I wasn't raising these objections as a way of saying "no, the game will never work like this. Dump the idea," I was pointing out potential flaws before the design even got started in order to (hopefully) influence the direction it takes.

Anyway, I think that a physics-based engine that uses the data mined by the guys who do The Hardball Times is probably the long-term future of the genre. Adding some semblance of a graphics engine now (and by now I mean next year) should help with some of the inevitable whinging by the "purists" who complain any time a feature is changed or something is added that they don't like. At the very least it would spread the "OMG THE OOTP IS FALLING" posts out to two separate years instead of them all coming at once.

[Base Stealer]

I voted for YES - MicroLeague-type ball flight and little guys would be great. (will allow for toggle on/off)...that would be a great addition to OOTP in my opinion....

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

What we'd do is a view very similar to FM. 2D with circles in the colors of the team + the jersey number. Then a ballpark background image that is generated using the wall distance & heigh information, or a customized image.

That is definitely something for the future, but if we're all lucky then it's for OOTP 10

But little guys are so much cooler than little circles.

But at least there'll be so kind of movement on the screen, I guess. :/

[damonrusst]

CM type graphics sound good as well. I was amazed how much that added to the game when i played their demo, even though it's just dots.

[Charlie Hough]

I'd much rather see the MicroLeague style players than the Football Manager style dots. But I would take ball flight against a static stadium backdrop. I don't necessarily need players.

I love the 2D match engine in FM, and it makes perfect sense for rendering a football match, but I don't think it would be good for baseball. The industry standard for baseball has been to use the MicroLeague method. And I'd be pretty disappointed if we had to settle for dots in OOTP.

Also, Markus, please DO NOT use the uniform numbers on the circles, or at least make this optional. I would rather see player last names and positions or something similar. In historical play, the uniform numbers don't correspond to the players unless you do a lot of manual editing.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by HolyCow98

In a perfect world, sure it would be awesome to have amazing graphics PLUS solid gameplay and customization etc etc that have been the strengths of the OOTP series IMO....but I don't think its realistic.

It isn't realistic yet. In my opinion it will be possible in the next generation of computers (multi terabyte HDs, 16GB Ram, etc.). As to whether it's feasible for ootp, not unless Markus has himself cloned lol.

[HolyCow98]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

It isn't realistic yet. In my opinion it will be possible in the next generation of computers (multi terabyte HDs, 16GB Ram, etc.). As to whether it's feasible for ootp, not unless Markus has himself cloned lol.

From a technical standpoint, even today it is possible to have amazing graphics for a game such as this. But it comes with a few drawbacks that make it unrealistic. One, they'd have to spend a lot more in resources and time to develop something like that. Two, as a gaming enthusiast, I upgrade my video card 1-3 times a year and my motherboard/CPU about once every 12-15 months just to keep up with the games. Of the current customer base, I do not think the majority care to keep a cutting edge computer for gaming.

Even a game with current video standards would drive the system specs of a game such as OOTP to high to the point it would alienate some of its customer-base thus costing the company some sales. Now they could generate new customers of course, but that would take a lot more money invested in marketing and distribution into retail outlets. Also, of potential customers that would be drawn to the graphics, how many of them would "stay" customers because they realize the quality of whats under the hood so to speak. In my experience from trying to play certain graphical sports game multiplayer online....the people are quite immature and usually of the younger generation. Basically, not the most stable of customers to add to a customer base.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see any of the indy developers (OOTP Developments, Wolverine Studios, Greydog Software, Solecismic Software to name a few), taking the steps financially to even attempt to try a game with cutting edge or even just using one of the standard current 3D engines out there now. Its not practical business wise. In a perfect world where the negatives didn't exist, I'm sure they and others certainly would.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by thomamon

Something similar to ESPN Gamecast would be awesome!

I'm with you... I love how far Gamecast has come the past few years.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I would like some kind of simple animation, but only if it is done well.

Leave it off until it can be done right.

.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

And I'd be pretty disappointed if we had to settle for dots in OOTP.

Also, Markus, please DO NOT use the uniform numbers on the circles, or at least make this optional. I would rather see player last names and positions or something similar. In historical play, the uniform numbers don't correspond to the players unless you do a lot of manual editing.

I would rather see a picture of the player's face, numbers and dots don't appeal to me either.

[PSUColonel]

You could have the photos where you do currently in the broadcast screen. Photos all over the field start to look cluttered.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Also, Markus, please DO NOT use the uniform numbers on the circles, or at least make this optional. I would rather see player last names and positions or something similar. In historical play, the uniform numbers don't correspond to the players unless you do a lot of manual editing.

Optional would be best as I would think most of us non-historical players would love to finally have a use for jersey numbers.

[rob_banzai]

Any time I see a reference to my beloved Microleague all I can think of is "IT'S OFF HIS GLOVE... IT'S ROLLING ALL THE WAY TO THE WALL!"

[PSUColonel]

I have news for a lot of you folks....Microleague is over, and it's time has well passed. Also, this is NOT Microleague, and frankly I hope there is never anything about it that reminds me of Microleague.

[Ambermonk]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Optional would be best as I would think most of us non-historical players would love to finally have a use for jersey numbers.

Agreed.

[Giants44]

One key point here and I think it is obvious but has not been said.

games like Microleague, LaRussa, Weaver, etc all determined the play result first and then showed the graphical representation.

new gen games like the show, MLB2k8 and the like allow the "physics engine" to determine the results.

clearly for a simulation game like OOTP it is an absolute MUST that the same process (or a similarly but improved one) determine the results and the graphical representation follows.

any attempt at a Physics engine is doomed to produce unrealistic results and ultimately steer the game from simulation to arcade.

as far as the if they do "this" then they won't have time to do "that" is misguided IMO. I frequently read people who have ask for features or changes that are very important to them, that mean nothing to me. I have also seen people complain that things that I think are important are a waste of time. All of this leads me to the fact that Markus has a really tough job - no matter what decisions he makes, he is sure to alienate some people - you simply can't please everyone. His only choice is to make the game the best he sees fit. Are you going to like every decision he makes - of course not. enjoy the ones you do, add your feedback where necessary - but the "i will never buy the game again" type comments add nothing.

[PAtricapillus]

My preference would be a one-pitch mode, graphical representation similar to FrontPageSports BB 98, or even Earl Weaver BB, which was similar to MicroLeage.

I don't play through every game, but when I do, I find that I do miss the graphical aspect. There is something different, more suspenseful, about watching the plays unfold vs. reading text, IMO. You immediately know the possibilities when the ball is hammered somewhere and you see it on screen. You know, if you have a guy on first, that a scorcher into the RF corner might result in a close play at the plate.

I played the new Baseball Mogul demo, and they are using a bare-bones, physics depicted graphics window and that is a nice start. It stunk when a low line-drive to left was called a HR in Fenway, though. It would also be nice to see players moving around the field.

I love the simulation aspect of OOTP, but I have to be honest, I grew up with baseball graphics and the game I would want above all others is a FPS BB graphical engine (or variation thereof) merged with OOTP.

[Ambermonk]

And I would like to see little base runners also - with their icon perhaps changing to a sliding runner when appropriate.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by rob_banzai

Any time I see a reference to my beloved Microleague all I can think of is "IT'S OFF HIS GLOVE... IT'S ROLLING ALL THE WAY TO THE WALL!"

I forgot all about that one. Greatness!

[Beach23BoyP]

I contend that EXPANDED "play by play text" -- not little bitty dots and ball flight is what we need. Real live play by play text that is full of rare plays and tons of different outcomes. (BTW, I'm a huge fan of FM, but baseball is not football or soccer).

An HTML file that we can edit, that we can build upon, etc, etc.