Purity...ha!

[senorcoo]

It's funny. I just read that someone didn't want to include minor Micro League type animation because it would ruin the purity of OOTP. Sorry, but adaptability is a VERY important attribute for any product and any person, for that matter. If you keep something the same, just because it's always been that way, that's a good way to become extinct. An example? If you are a little brown bunny and your environment suddenly becomes snowy and white, you pretty much have two options. Either adapt and your fur turns white or stay the same (for purity's sake) and become some other critter's lunch. Baseball purists didn't want the wild card when it first came out. "It'll ruin the purity of the game!" they said. Well, guess what? It was one of the greatest things ever to happen to baseball. Keeps many more fans interested as more fans have the perception that their team is still in it. Change simply for the sake of change is pointless, but change for the sake of improvement is ALWAYS good! ADAPT!!

[ripwalk]

And the reason this is its own thread?

[silvam14]

I would love a microleague style graphical representation!

[The Wolf]

I don't care about it one way or the other, but it sure wouldn't do anything to the "purity" of the game. It might be garish, or it might be gorgeous, but it sure wouldn't make the game "impure" unless you're some kind of super text-game fanatic. And if that was the case, OMG, the game already has...graphical logos! Unclean! Unclean!

Give us a break. "Purity"?

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by senorcoo

It's funny. I just read that someone didn't want to include minor Micro League type animation because it would ruin the purity of OOTP. Sorry, but adaptability is a VERY important attribute for any product and any person, for that matter. If you keep something the same, just because it's always been that way, that's a good way to become extinct. An example? If you are a little brown bunny and your environment suddenly becomes snowy and white, you pretty much have two options. Either adapt and your fur turns white or stay the same (for purity's sake) and become some other critter's lunch. Baseball purists didn't want the wild card when it first came out. "It'll ruin the purity of the game!" they said. Well, guess what? It was one of the greatest things ever to happen to baseball. Keeps many more fans interested as more fans have the perception that their team is still in it. Change simply for the sake of change is pointless, but change for the sake of improvement is ALWAYS good! ADAPT!!

So what if your team is in the wildcard hunt. I never saw it as any great feat to get into the playoffs in any sport as a wildcard team. IMO it means the incentive to win a division is gone, there really is no great advantage to winning a division, especially in baseball. If you can be 2nd best that's good enough. Then you start seeing ridiculous things like sub-.500 teams in the playoffs. Yeah, that makes for excitement.

To go even further, why bother with a world series? There already is interleague play. Same with all-star games. What's the point?

The reason I always heard for interleague play was that many fans didn't like the fact they didn't get to see the stars of the other league. Really?? Must not have TV's. That would have been a more legitimate excuse before TV.

It's all about money. Stupid fans thinking their team has a serious chance at being a champion just because they are in the hunt for a wildcard slot so they will go to games later in the season. Never mind the fact the team is a .500 team, or worse.

From the sport's perspective, it does bring in more money, and that's all this junk is for. Has nothing to do with improving the game, and it hasn't.

This thing of people calling someone a "purist" as if "purist" is some kind of bad thing.

Quite frankly, from what I've seen of baseball, they quality of play is bad. I have seen plays we used to do on the schoolyard ballfield when were were 12 years old. One example is when a PROFESSIONAL pitcher holds onto the ball while arguing something, and a baserunner scores because the ball is still in play. That wasn't a one-time occurrence either in the major leagues. That was a play that happened in our pick-up games during the summer.

Announcers saying that because someone hit a cutoff man, that was a great play. Really?

Yes, baseball is such a great game. It's the non-purists that have no idea what baseball is about. They think it's all about homeruns. Defense, what little of it there is, isn't appreciated. Things like hit & run and bunting are frowned upon by these "fans". I give LaRussa credit. He showed the Detroit team and it's fans that there are other ways to win besides a homerun derby.

I used to build and manage teams in these type of games for the long ball. One thing OOTP has taught me, especially when playing teams earlier in the century, is how much fun it is to have to manufacture runs. To me, sitting back and waiting on the longball is boring as a manager. If the longball doesn't come, you lose because you have no other way to get runs. The other aspect is, the more you can do offensively, the harder it is for the other team to defend against you.

But, the purist idea of baseball is boring.

[senorcoo]

Well, first off, saying that there will be sub-.500 teams in the MLB playoffs is virtually impossible so long as you have an unbalanced schedule and leave it as 4 playoff teams per league. Not to mention the fact that in MLB only 27% of the teams make the playoffs as opposed to 53% for the NFL and NBA (if they have 30 teams - don't follow them). In the latter two there can be sub-.500 teams since such a vast percentage of the league makes the playoffs. Don't even get me started on the MLS where all but 4 teams make the playoffs. An absolute joke. Of course it's about money with MLB - it is a business you know. The dynamic is this - keeping more fans interested because their team is in the hunt, keeps more people tuning in and going through the turnstiles. Sure MLB has it's problems (the DH being the most glaring in the fact that half the World Series is played according to different rules than teams played with all year), but at least there is a point to playing the season unlike the NBA and MLS. And as far as sitting back and waiting for the longball goes - play with no DH, that's baseball. AL managers do nothing except manage the pitching staff. They set their lineup and that's pretty much it. How many pinch-hitters do you see? VERY few. No double-switching, no worrying about when the pitcher is coming up, not to mention that when a pitcher throws at someone in the NL, they have to remember that they are gonna have to stand up there too.

[Ramzavail]

I loved in Microleague when you can tell you had gotten a hit from the speed of the batter running.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

I loved in Microleague when you can tell you had gotten a hit from the speed of the batter running.

Okay, so maybe not exactly like Microleague.

To go even further, why bother with a world series? There already is interleague play. Same with all-star games. What's the point?

This has to be a troll because this point is too bizarre to be made in seriousness.

[DerekT]

Question: Am I correct in thinking that the only time a team close to sub .500 has made the playoffs in baseball, it was due to a weak division in which the division winner was sub 500.

I know this much in the American League its typically New York and Boston winning the division and wildcard, and neither of those two teams have entered close to a losing season those years.

[kckid4u]

Originally Posted by ripwalk

And the reason this is its own thread?

For a "change."

[Long_Long_Name]

As The Wolf said, this game's been devirginized long ago. A true text purist wouldn't be a fan of the way OOTP currently is.

[damonrusst]

I'm up for MicroLeague as long as the exact same sound effects are used. Especially the song they'd play when you visited the mound the second time in a inning.

Also, in addition to the speed of the runner tipping you off to whether it will be a hit, I'd like to see strikeouts tipped off by the timing of when the text disappears.

Man, I played so much microleague as a kid, it was ridiculous. Anyone know a downloadable version of this game that would play on a current PC? would be a good laugh to see it again.

[Jose Cardenal's Afro]

I would be up for any graphics they want to throw in...as long as the trade AI is improved. There are areas that could be better spent with programming time than graphics. imho.

[Matches]

Not for nothing, but yeah - I hated the wild card then and I still hate it now.

I refer to this paragraph from my historical sim:

The Angels were tied for the 8th best record in the 14-team American League. Yet the league’s three-division format, installed in 1994, meant that the geographically lucky Angels had to win just 11 more games and they would be crowned champions. And win 11 games they did, beating the Devil Rays in 5 in the Division Series, the wild-card Yankees in 7 in the ALCS, and the Phillies in 6 in the World Series. The Angels overall record in the regular season plus the playoffs was 88-92, making them the first team to win fewer games than they lost and still considered champions of anything other than mediocrity.

The Angels went 77-85 during the regular season and made the playoffs. This is due to the asinine concept of a division with 4 teams. Someone says "unbalanced schedule", I laugh. Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds- unbalanced schedule". It inherently means an unfair schedule.

Anyway - for me, I'm not enamored with resources going to graphic representation because I rarely go into single games. Would I do it more if there were some graphics? Not unless they felt real. More important to get a better feel to the text pbp in my opinion. And even that takes a distant back seat to improving player development, the way pitchers exist, etc.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Matches

Someone says "unbalanced schedule", I laugh. Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds- unbalanced schedule". It inherently means an unfair schedule.

On the other hand, using a balanced schedule with a multidivision structure renders those divisions arbitrary and meaningless.

If you're going to use a balanced schedule, the proper way to do so is to arrange the league into one big division and take the top whatever number of teams into the playoffs.

[senorcoo]

Heh, yeah the BRRRRRR strikeout noise was the greatest in Micro League. The 2nd visit to the mound music was also AWESOME :-) I also played enough Micro League back in the day.

[treedom]

Maybe we could get some sort of Immaculate Animation in the next version. That way OOTP could have graphics while still remaining virginal and pure.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

As The Wolf said, this game's been devirginized long ago. A true text purist wouldn't be a fan of the way OOTP currently is.

Well, I'll have to respectfully disagree. OOTP, as far as graphics goes, isn't much different now than it's virgin state. Yes, it has far more images, but that's all it has, is images. What it doesn't have now, any more than it did way back when, is animated graphics.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Well, I'll have to respectfully disagree. OOTP, as far as graphics goes, isn't much different now than it's virgin state. Yes, it has far more images, but that's all it has, is images. What it doesn't have now, any more than it did way back when, is animated graphics.

Well, I'd imagine a pure text simmer wouldn't be too happy with OOTP ever since at least OOTP3 (I wasn't playing before that), really, with logos, player pictures and the stadium diagrams. He'd probably not be too happy with the addition of facegen and automatic logos. Facegen or animated graphics would both piss me off if I was a text purist, I think.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

As The Wolf said, this game's been devirginized long ago. A true text purist wouldn't be a fan of the way OOTP currently is.

The idea of "purity" came from the poll that was posted a little before this... I'm not a "text purist" but I see no point in animated graphics of where the ball went or see my little fielders run around the field.

First, it doesn't matter. The game will decide what happens... you just get a cute little scene to watch while it does so. Now, people are going to freak out and hate me over this but I have to say it... use your imagination! It's like buying my daughter this $100 baby doll that can talk and giggle and crap... then she gets ticked off because it only does certain things. Use your imagination! I never had a freaking GI Joe that talked to me, I never had lego's that were remote controlled... it's pathetic, but I digress a bit.
The game will decide what happens, that's not going to change. Do you really need graphics to turn "flyball to the gap in right center" into a vision of where the ball is going???? If so, there's bigger problems with people's imagination than I thought.

Second, it'll be OOTP 2006 all over again, just new and different. I refer to the text and the cute little graphical scene. Great, now we'll see a "deep" drive to right field that is caught about 20 feet past the infield. Although we will get to see the occasional, and apparently well hidden bug, where the 2B somehow occasionally rushes down the line in left field and makes the catch.... might be interesting to see that though.
A lot of the HUGE amount of work that has gone into the pbp in order for the game to make sense will have to be tweaked or completely redone, and even then it'll be three or four versions before it actually syncs correctly.
Does anyone remember the pbp from 2006? The vast improvement to 2007? It's set to take another huge step forward this version... now we want graphics so we get thrown back to 2006 again?
What graphics there are now don't even work! I can't mention something simple in the pbp such as "that pitch drilled him in the knee" because the freaking game doesn't actually HIT the batter!!! The pitch shows up inside... he isn't even HIT! And what I have so I might be able to mention where he's hit (ignoring that the graphic doesn't show him HIT) doesn't work right... it can be anywhere from his butt to his feet for a low hbp, possibly nowhere near his knee.

I can't go any further in why this is a very bad idea (nor would I want to), but I'll just leave it that it is a very bad idea for the reasons above and be done with it. Has nothing to do with being a "text purist," but has everything to do with how little everyone understands the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes. Practice the long forgotten art of using your imagination, I guarantee it's many times better than any graphics would be anyhow.