L/R Splits disappear in fictional leagues, fixed for 2009?

[BadluckinOOTP]

This was really a game killer for those fans of simming 25 or so years and then taking a team over. When you go into the free agency pool looking for that low budget lefty masher to take the 25th spot on your roster, you're appalled to find that there is no such thing! Every player hits lefties just as well as they do righties!

The statistics seemed to match up at times (L/R platoon splits), but cosmetically it was frustrating to see absolutely NO discrepiancy in a batter or pitchers rating, when facing left or right handed opponents.

I really hope this is fixed in the next version!

[kckid4u]

Yeah, that would be nifty for sure. That's a big part of baseball.

[1998 Yankees]

It took some jumping up and down, but the issue was finally officially recognized in post #76 in this thread:

Left/Right Spits in fictional league (an unfortunate mispelling in the thread title, but that's what I felt like doing over the issue at times )

BETA TESTERS: I know you are lurking out there. Could you focus in on this and nip it? It seems to have crept into the patch process for OOTP 2007 and it got noticed and posted late in the year, perhaps accounting for why it had to be held over to OOTP 9.

Thanks. Love you guys.

[BadluckinOOTP]

With Markus around a little more often, I'd love to read a , "All gone" or something like that.

I mean, if this sticks around I'll not be buying the game. I quit playing 2007/8 because of it.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

With Markus around a little more often, I'd love to read a , "All gone" or something like that.

I'm a bit hopeful of that too. He said in another thread that he had fixed certain bugs held over from the 2007/8 and I was wondering if this was one of them.

[Markus Heinsohn]

I am looking into this

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am looking into this

Well, that answers that, for the most part. You're a good man, Markus.

[myasu]

Thank you very much for looking into the problem, Markus.
I agree with the posters here that this is an area which could certainly improve a lot.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

With Markus around a little more often, I'd love to read a , "All gone" or something like that.

I mean, if this sticks around I'll not be buying the game. I quit playing 2007/8 because of it.

That may be an overreaction. If you read RonCo's posts in the "Spit" thread, he suggested the problem was difficult to pin down but not a show stopper. At the time I wanted large visible ratings splits but now I see that from a realism pov the manager of the team has no such device. The manager has stats and his observations of who hits same hand pitching (and vice versa for pitching). So, if the stats are right then visible splits are not needed. Are the stats right? That is the question.

However that leads to another problem where the AI seems to rely on ratings overwhelmingly even when the AI player evaluation is set to stats.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am looking into this

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by endgame

Well, that answers that, for the most part. You're a good man, Markus.

"

Originally Posted by RchW

That may be an overreaction. If you read RonCo's posts in the "Spit" thread, he suggested the problem was difficult to pin down but not a show stopper. At the time I wanted large visible ratings splits but now I see that from a realism pov the manager of the team has no such device. The manager has stats and his observations of who hits same hand pitching (and vice versa for pitching). So, if the stats are right then visible splits are not needed. Are the stats right? That is the question.

I beg to differ. A manager certainly has access to reports that are not strictly statistical but judgmental as well. I rely on scouting assessments of how well a player does against lefty and righty opponents and while I would like stats to follow and assume that they generally would, I want as quick a reference (accurately or not depending on scouting proficiency) as I can get at certain times in the course of a game, draft, trade negotiation, what have you.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I rely on scouting assessments of how well a player does against lefty and righty opponents and while I would like stats to follow and assume that they generally would, I want as quick a reference (accurately or not depending on scouting proficiency) as I can get at certain times in the course of a game, draft, trade negotiation, what have you.

I'm a big advocate of the quick reference as well. Going slightly OT here, I have suggested that in some future version we change, in-game, the way the batter vs. pitchers list is presented. During a game, it'd be a grand and welcome filter to be able to click on a bench player- or a player who is on deck- call up his batter vs. pitcher screen and just see the pitchers on the team we are playing. Ideally, just the pitcher on the mound and its available pitchers. Talk about being able to utilize a tool that provides for subjective judgment (the hunch) and a statistical performance history!

The only reason I mention that in this context is that it'd be a short and sweet way to not only take L/R splits into consideration, but how a batter has faired, historically, against specific L/R pitchers when faced with that decision in the heat of the moment.

[Curtis]

I should probably go back and read the original Spit thread for the answer to this question, but I'm a lazy bugger, so I'll just ask here: Is the same problem being seen for pitcher L/R splits?

One of the things I enjoyed from the Strat-O-Matic game was the 'reverse' batters and pitchers — the batters who did better against pitchers of the same hand and pitchers who did better against batters of the opposite hand. These were the guys who even the other human managers usually didn't take proper account of when deciding lineups, pinch hitters and relief pitchers, and often they earned me excellant matchups. As late as the 2007 version of this game, I have yet to see a 'reverse' player.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Thanks again.

"

I beg to differ. A manager certainly has access to reports that are not strictly statistical but judgmental as well. I rely on scouting assessments of how well a player does against lefty and righty opponents and while I would like stats to follow and assume that they generally would, I want as quick a reference (accurately or not depending on scouting proficiency) as I can get at certain times in the course of a game, draft, trade negotiation, what have you.

All things being equal would you let subjective criteria determine who would hit in high leverage situations? Except for the pressure due to situation, or a superstar player, why would you not bat the guy with the better stats? IRL how long would it take before you were asked why you were not utilizing your bench better.

Based on that would you agree with the AI pinch hitting a guy hitting 0.180 for a guy hitting 0.320 (and is 3 for 4) just because his ratings are higher? It happens all the time and it is not realistic IMO.

[ootp3to6]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am looking into this

Thank you. The L/R platoon splits need to be there for review.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Curtis

I should probably go back and read the original Spit thread for the answer to this question, but I'm a lazy bugger, so I'll just ask here: Is the same problem being seen for pitcher L/R splits?

You be the judge, Curtis. This goes on for page after page in my game. A top-flight scout is involved, but shouldn't that be all the more reason for finding some differential in lefty/righty ratings? In some players at least?

Markus has said he is looking into this and I trust that he will find what is wrong and fix it. Or else remove lefty-righty ratings from the game altogether because at this stage in my game, they are useless.

[Markus Heinsohn]

I already know the problem... I just need to find a proper fix for it

[Syd Thrift]

IIRC Bill James looked at platoon splits 20+ years ago and determined that for the most part they stay the same throughout a player's career. Perhaps as a fix you could tie ratings growth into a player's "dominant" handedness (i.e. for a right-handed batter, growth could be tied to his hitting abilities vs. left-handed pitchers, whereas a right-handed pitcher's growth would be attached to his numbers vs. RH batters) and then the "off-hand" behind the scenes could be a constant number that you'd subtract from the "dominant" side. That would still leave switch-hitters as an issue, but you could get around that by assigning growth to their throwing hand (so a switch-hitter who throws right would have his growth tied to his numbers vs. LHPs).

That looks confusing even to me so maybe it'll make more sense if I demonstrate it:

Bob Johnson is a right-handed batter. His BABIP-AvoidK-Gap-HR-Patience skills are as follows:

110/80/70/70/50

Those are also his base skills vs. left-handed pitchers. Behind the scenes, the game keeps track of these numbers for RHPs:

-10/-20/-10/-10/-5

So initially his numbers vs. LHPs look like this in the game:

100/60/60/60/45

5 years from now, good old Bob has metamorphosed into a pretty decent hitter. Here are his numbers vs. LHPs:

100/120/130/150/110

His splits remain unchanged, so this is what his numbers look like vs. RHPs:

90/100/120/140/105

I don't know how hard this would be to code, but it's the first thing I can think of.

[Mike Donlin]

I would just urge here that very few players, it turns out, have a pronounced split one way or the other. Rather, most lefties hit righties slightly better and some righties hit lefties slightly better. The thing to avoid, I think, is players who are superstars versus some-handed pitchers and scrubs versus the other-handed sort. Those players just don't exist. Baseball by the Numbers had a great chapter on platoons, quantifying the average advantage and disadvantage (or lack thereof).

[Syd Thrift]

That's a great point, Mike. At least for this version, another workaround might be to introduce some sort of generic bonus/penalty when working with or against platoon matchups. Having some sort of platoon differential is more important than having different ones for every player that nonetheless keeps the game realistic.

[Mike Donlin]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's a great point, Mike. At least for this version, another workaround might be to introduce some sort of generic bonus/penalty when working with or against platoon matchups. Having some sort of platoon differential is more important than having different ones for every player that nonetheless keeps the game realistic.

Right, with the exception of perhaps a rare outlier, I would rather have generic platoon splits, or generic platoon splits with a very small band of potential difference .