Hall of Fame Qualifications

ripwalk · 05-10-2008, 12:41 PM

Hey there,

Quick question .. I have a fictional solo league that is in its 36th season and of course I have people retiring who are HOF-worthy, or close anyway ...

I have had difficulty figuring out what reasonable HOF standards should be for pitchers .... I've inducted a few guys already who have had the all-time lead in saves, etc... But in general I'm having a tough time developing guidelines for who should get in and who shouldn't ..

My league has 4 man rotations, so a healthy starter pitches 25 times a year ... Obviously the 300 win benchmark of real baseball is not applicable, so what kind of numbers would you say in this type of league would make a "sure fire" hall of famer?

For a record my current wins leader all-time has 212 and he's still playing now at the age of 43...

What should be my "auto induction" requirements for a league like this?

Thanks,
Cole

BruceM · 05-10-2008, 12:57 PM

How many games is your schedule?

A 4 man rotation and only 25 starts a year equates to a 100 game schedule.

ripwalk · 05-10-2008, 01:01 PM

Sorry I'm a moron ..

Yes, 100 game schedule ...

Forgot to add that in ...

BruceM · 05-10-2008, 01:07 PM

Personally, I always set the game automatic settings super high so no-one gets elected by the game. Each year at the end of the season when players retire I look at them all and decide myself who gets in.

As for numbers, well, you have to look at your league setup. A 100 game season, average pitcher probably gets 22 starts a year, and 16 wins if he's good. Figure out the avgerage life cycle for your pitchers. If it's say 12 years, then a good pitcher will win 180 games in his career. So set a bench mark of say 160 wins with an Era no higher than?

What's your league avg for Era. Lots of things to consider here.

It's really up to you at the end of the day. You know your league, so what constitutes HOF numbers?

ripwalk · 05-10-2008, 01:16 PM

Well that's the thing ...

I just don't know what to go on ...

I have quite a number of starting pitchers who have amassed 170-180 wins, but with around 3.5-ish ERA's, but I just don't know how to compare that to real life HOFers for pitching..

What's a typical win loss per centage or ERA for a major league HOF? I imagine they are mostly at or around 3-3.5?

I know win-loss record isn't the most useful stat to judge pitchers but it's an okay benchmark ...

You're right it's not the worst problem to have I was just wondering if anyone had any rough estimates or anything they would consider ...

DrSatan · 05-10-2008, 01:55 PM

I have an idea on how to judge ERA. Since you have 36 years, you'll have 72 pitchers of the year. You could use the average ERA of those 72 pitchers as a benchmark for the HOF. If you wanted a larger sample, you could take the top 5 of every year. This works better if your using the same statistical time period for 36 years. Probably not as good if you used 1920's league totals for 10 years and 1990's league totals for the rest. When it comes to my leagues, I like to base selections on how the player performed in relation to his peers. This way guys like Jim Rice and Andre Dawson aren't excluded from the hall just because of the era they played in, and guys like Bert Blyleven are not included just because he pitched for 100 years and managed to get 300 wins. I also consider awards, championships, playoff performance, and fielding% when making selections.

rogmax11 · 05-10-2008, 04:38 PM

Bruce, I have a question:

How do you get the manual selections to "stick"? That is, when the season rolls over to the new year, after Ive done HOF selections, I find that all my *s have disappeared and the nascent HOFers are now unselected.

This has happened now with super-high qualifiers entered, as well as all the fields being blanked out. Obviously Im doing something wrong, or at the wrong time, but I cant find a way to get around the issue. Any help is greatly appreciated.

1998 Yankees · 05-10-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogmax11

Bruce, I have a question:

How do you get the manual selections to "stick"? That is, when the season rolls over to the new year, after Ive done HOF selections, I find that all my *s have disappeared and the nascent HOFers are now unselected.

This has happened now with super-high qualifiers entered, as well as all the fields being blanked out. Obviously Im doing something wrong, or at the wrong time, but I cant find a way to get around the issue. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here's an audit trail of the issue. It was reported a year ago, and seems to have been resolved in a patch last fall.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...hof-issue.html
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...hall-fame.html
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...hall-fame.html
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...hall-fame.html

From the last thread, it would appear that the problem was fixed in the last patch of 2007, or else we would be hearing more about it. So make sure you have the latest patch for whatever game you are playing, 2007 or 8.

Left-handed Badger · 05-10-2008, 06:11 PM

Well, to put a simple version on it. 100 games a year would be about 5/8 of the current 162 game schedule. (10/16=5/8) and for the old 154 game schedule 2/3 (10/15=2/3). I'd say 200 wins could roughly be the equivalent of the real 300. Just add half of their win total extra onto their win total to get a "comparable to real life" mark. ERA, I cant help you much but I'd assume run totals would be similar to real life, so it shouldnt factor in different by much.

Real-life HOF? Well wins vary widely. Koufax only won 165, and is in. But, Blyleven won over 280 without being in (though probably should be, but that is for a whole other topic) For career ERAs, I'd have to look but I am pretty sure that anyone with over 4.00 for their career wont be in.

rogmax11 · 05-10-2008, 09:10 PM

Thanks Yankee-man! I thought I had the latest 2007 but obviously not. Since 2009 is pre-ordered and right around the corner to release ( wink wink ), I'll soldier on with my quirky and antiquated relic.

Once again, thanks for the reply.

MadMax58 · 05-11-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Well, to put a simple version on it. 100 games a year would be about 5/8 of the current 162 game schedule. (10/16=5/8) and for the old 154 game schedule 2/3 (10/15=2/3). I'd say 200 wins could roughly be the equivalent of the real 300. Just add half of their win total extra onto their win total to get a "comparable to real life" mark. ERA, I cant help you much but I'd assume run totals would be similar to real life, so it shouldnt factor in different by much.

Real-life HOF? Well wins vary widely. Koufax only won 165, and is in. But, Blyleven won over 280 without being in (though probably should be, but that is for a whole other topic) For career ERAs, I'd have to look but I am pretty sure that anyone with over 4.00 for their career wont be in.

+1 to this approach.

05-10-2008, 12:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
ripwalk All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 765	Hall of Fame Qualifications Hey there, Quick question .. I have a fictional solo league that is in its 36th season and of course I have people retiring who are HOF-worthy, or close anyway ... I have had difficulty figuring out what reasonable HOF standards should be for pitchers .... I've inducted a few guys already who have had the all-time lead in saves, etc... But in general I'm having a tough time developing guidelines for who should get in and who shouldn't .. My league has 4 man rotations, so a healthy starter pitches 25 times a year ... Obviously the 300 win benchmark of real baseball is not applicable, so what kind of numbers would you say in this type of league would make a "sure fire" hall of famer? For a record my current wins leader all-time has 212 and he's still playing now at the age of 43... What should be my "auto induction" requirements for a league like this? Thanks, Cole

05-10-2008, 12:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
BruceM Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,128	How many games is your schedule? A 4 man rotation and only 25 starts a year equates to a 100 game schedule. __________________ It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

05-10-2008, 01:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
BruceM Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,128	Personally, I always set the game automatic settings super high so no-one gets elected by the game. Each year at the end of the season when players retire I look at them all and decide myself who gets in. As for numbers, well, you have to look at your league setup. A 100 game season, average pitcher probably gets 22 starts a year, and 16 wins if he's good. Figure out the avgerage life cycle for your pitchers. If it's say 12 years, then a good pitcher will win 180 games in his career. So set a bench mark of say 160 wins with an Era no higher than? What's your league avg for Era. Lots of things to consider here. It's really up to you at the end of the day. You know your league, so what constitutes HOF numbers? __________________ It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

05-10-2008, 06:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
Left-handed Badger All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 769	Well, to put a simple version on it. 100 games a year would be about 5/8 of the current 162 game schedule. (10/16=5/8) and for the old 154 game schedule 2/3 (10/15=2/3). I'd say 200 wins could roughly be the equivalent of the real 300. Just add half of their win total extra onto their win total to get a "comparable to real life" mark. ERA, I cant help you much but I'd assume run totals would be similar to real life, so it shouldnt factor in different by much. Real-life HOF? Well wins vary widely. Koufax only won 165, and is in. But, Blyleven won over 280 without being in (though probably should be, but that is for a whole other topic) For career ERAs, I'd have to look but I am pretty sure that anyone with over 4.00 for their career wont be in. __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

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05-10-2008, 01:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
ripwalk All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 765	Sorry I'm a moron .. Yes, 100 game schedule ... Forgot to add that in ...

05-10-2008, 01:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
ripwalk All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 765	Well that's the thing ... I just don't know what to go on ... I have quite a number of starting pitchers who have amassed 170-180 wins, but with around 3.5-ish ERA's, but I just don't know how to compare that to real life HOFers for pitching.. What's a typical win loss per centage or ERA for a major league HOF? I imagine they are mostly at or around 3-3.5? I know win-loss record isn't the most useful stat to judge pitchers but it's an okay benchmark ... You're right it's not the worst problem to have I was just wondering if anyone had any rough estimates or anything they would consider ...

05-10-2008, 01:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
DrSatan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 251	I have an idea on how to judge ERA. Since you have 36 years, you'll have 72 pitchers of the year. You could use the average ERA of those 72 pitchers as a benchmark for the HOF. If you wanted a larger sample, you could take the top 5 of every year. This works better if your using the same statistical time period for 36 years. Probably not as good if you used 1920's league totals for 10 years and 1990's league totals for the rest. When it comes to my leagues, I like to base selections on how the player performed in relation to his peers. This way guys like Jim Rice and Andre Dawson aren't excluded from the hall just because of the era they played in, and guys like Bert Blyleven are not included just because he pitched for 100 years and managed to get 300 wins. I also consider awards, championships, playoff performance, and fielding% when making selections.

05-10-2008, 04:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,202	Bruce, I have a question: How do you get the manual selections to "stick"? That is, when the season rolls over to the new year, after Ive done HOF selections, I find that all my *s have disappeared and the nascent HOFers are now unselected. This has happened now with super-high qualifiers entered, as well as all the fields being blanked out. Obviously Im doing something wrong, or at the wrong time, but I cant find a way to get around the issue. Any help is greatly appreciated.

05-10-2008, 09:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,202	Thanks Yankee-man! I thought I had the latest 2007 but obviously not. Since 2009 is pre-ordered and right around the corner to release ( wink wink ), I'll soldier on with my quirky and antiquated relic. Once again, thanks for the reply.