Multinational league questions

[RMc]

Let's say I have a Euro League with teams in London, Berlin, Paris and Rome. Using the new MN option, the London team would be 100% English, the Berlin team 100% German, and so on.

A few questions:

(1) What about the ammy draft? What players will be in the pool? Will (for instance) the Paris team draft only Frenchmen?

(2) If you set "Foreigner Limit", at, say, 3 players, will the Rome team have 3 non-Italians and the rest Italians?

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by RMc

Let's say I have a Euro League with teams in London, Berlin, Paris and Rome. Using the new MN option, the London team would be 100% English, the Berlin team 100% German, and so on.

A few questions:

(1) What about the ammy draft? What players will be in the pool? Will (for instance) the Paris team draft only Frenchmen?

(2) If you set "Foreigner Limit", at, say, 3 players, will the Rome team have 3 non-Italians and the rest Italians?

Unless it's been changed in 9, (2) won't work like that. Because a league has to have a base nationality the foreigner limits work on that nationality. What is needed is for leagues not to have a nationality and then have two sets of foreigner limits - one for the entire world and one for the nations represented in the league.

So, an MLB setup could have a limit of 10 players from elsewhere in the world (ie non US and non Canadian) which would apply to all the teams and then have a limit of 5 players from nations within that league (so 29 of the teams would be limited to 5 Canadians, and the Blue Jays would be limited to 5 Americans)

[Markus Heinsohn]

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

[jetking]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

Count me in for limits based on team nationality. Oh, and thanks for asking

[Who Killed Kenny?]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

Can we have it both ways? League foreigners AND team foreigners?

If given an opportunity I'd choose on a per team basis. This would allow for national teams, which would be a fantastic option.

Now if only we could have superstars from other leagues play on the national teams...

[Tyke]

Per team, please

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

Well, if it is set per team then essentially you could have National or Country teams within one leage structure and this can be maintained from season to season. Per team would be a huge improvement and essentially allows a World Cup league.

[RMc]

To remind everybody for the gazillionth time , here's what I originally proposed:

Ever want to create a continent- or region-wide league representing several countries at once? I think I have a solution: the multinational option.

Here's how it would work: let's say you want to create a four-team Euro League with teams in London, Paris, Rome and Berlin. Under "League Nation," instead of one nation, there would be an option called "Multinational." This would restrict the league to creating players only from the countries where the teams are; in this case, England, France, Italy and Germany.

Want to slip in a few players from outside Europe? There would be another option: "Multinational Percentage" (MN%), sort of like "Foreigner Percentage" in reverse. An MN% of 100 means no players outside the four-country group; 50 means half the players created would be English, French, Italian and German, while the other half would be from other countries, with the "big baseball" nations (US, Japan, Korea, etc.) getting the lion's share.

What about individual teams? You'd have two options: "Nation percentage" (players from the team's own nation, or N%) and "Group percentage" (players from the other countries in the league, or G%). Let's say you wanted all the players on the team from Rome to be Italian; that's a N% of 100 and a G% of 0. If you set, say, the Berlin team at N% of 50 and G% of 30, you'd get half your players from Germany, another 30% from England, France and Italy, and the remaining 20% from outside the four countries in this league.

It looks confusing, I know, but it would solve the problems of pan-European or pan-Asian leagues. Or what if, say, your version of MLB expands to Tokyo, but they would prefer to have a larger percentage of native Japanese players on their roster? Now, it would be possible.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

Can we have it both ways? League foreigners AND team foreigners?

If given an opportunity I'd choose on a per team basis. This would allow for national teams, which would be a fantastic option.

Now if only we could have superstars from other leagues play on the national teams...

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

Well, if it is set per team then essentially you could have National or Country teams within one leage structure and this can be maintained from season to season. Per team would be a huge improvement and essentially allows a World Cup league.

I third the suggestion that we can have both. Or per team.

[galvac]

Per team.

[Tony M]

RMc's proposal is good for the player creation side, but would need to be expanded to foreigner limits (for rosters)

So you'd want three sets of foreigner limits in set-up

1) Foreigner limit from all nations other than team's nation
2) Foreigner limit from nations represented in the league
3) Foreigner limit from all nations other than nations in the league

All three could be used in conjunction. So for a UK league you could say that 5 players can come from countries other than your own, and 5 can come from nations in the league, and 1 can come from outside countries. This would lead to a 5 foreigner limit in which you could have 5 home nationals or 4 home nationals and 1 foreigner.

And the draft would have to be able to handle teams only picking within the rules. I'm pretty sure that the AI doesn't do this too well at the moment - if I put a foreigner limit on the AI drafts foreigners in the draft and then has to release them.

[bluejays85]

Eeek this sounds confusing .. it's probably not though if I ponder it a while.

[bluejays85]

So by this, you could make a league with a team from every country in the world, and each of those teams with their own nationality? Or is that not really doable?

Not that I would do that, I don't think, but just curious.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by bluejays85

Eeek this sounds confusing .. it's probably not though if I ponder it a while.

It could be infinitely more complex, but it seems from reading this thread and the others on multinational leagues that people wanted two things

1) the ability to have multinational teams who only have players from their country
2) the ability to limit foreigners

which accounts for two of the three limits I mentioned. The third (middle) one came about when thinking about something like UEFA in the football - they used to have a ruling that you could only have so many from countries inside their organisation.

Hopefully Markus can get this in before release date.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Foreigner limits are based on the league nationality, not the team nationality... I could change that of course. What are the thoughts on this?

I think it would be best to have the option of either as I can easily see different people wanting to do it different ways. If it absolutely has to be one or the other, I'd also say team.

I really like RMc's suggestion though and I'm curious of redsoxford's. I can't say I fully understand it all yet though and I would be worried about the game working well enough with all the limitations.

[Tony M]

This will probably be too late for 9, but maybe in 10.

The only problem with multinational leagues is that all players are created 'equal' - the league has an average level that players will be created around.

It would be nice if the world setup files (nations.txt, cities.txt, ethnicities.txt, etc) could be combined and allow for more realistic world-tinkering.

For example something like the following

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<world>
<baseratings>
<physical>
<height value="180" />
<weight value="200" />
</physical>
<batting>
<contact value="107" />
<gap value="127" />
<power value="96" />
<eye value="101" />
<strikeouts value="88" />
</batting>
<pitching>
<stuff value="93" />
<movement value="109" />
<control value="106" />
<endurance>
<starter value="145" />
<reliever value="35" />
<closer value="20" />
</endurance>
</pitching>
<fielding>
<pitcher value="123" />
<catcher value="154" />
<firstbase value="106" />
<secondbase value="123" />
<thirdbase value="117" />
<shortstop value="142" />
<leftfield value="146" />
<centrefield value="117" />
<rightfield value="148" />
</fielding>
<running>
<speed value="100" />
<baserunning value="100" />
<stealing value="100" />
</running>
</baseratings>

<worldregions>
<worldregion id="1" name="Africa" />
<worldregion id="2" name="Asia" />
<worldregion id="3" name="Europe" />
<worldregion id="4" name="North America" />
<worldregion id="5" name="Oceania" />
<worldregion id="6" name="South America" />
</worldregions>
<nations>
<nation id="1" name="Afghanistan" shortname="Afghanistan" abbreviation="AFG" nationality="Afghani">
<ethnicities>
<ethnicity set="Arabic" value="100" />
</ethnicities>
<worldregion id="2" />
<ratings type="mod" source="world">
<modifier type="batting" field="power" value="1.5" />
<modifier type="pitching" field="control" value="0.25" />
</ratings>
<regions>
<region name="Badakhshan">
<ethnicities>
<ethnicity set="Arabic" value="72" />
<ethnicity set="Indian" value="28" />
</ethnicities>
<ratings type="val" source="country">
<modifier type="batting" field="power" value="25" />
<modifier type="physical" field="weight" value="250" />
</ratings>
<city name="Eskasem" population="12120" latitude="36.72" longitude="71.56" />
<city name="Fayzabad" population="40276" latitude="37.13" longitude="70.58" />
<city name="Handud" population="5521" latitude="36.93" longitude="72.32" />
<city name="Jurm" population="12106" latitude="36.85" longitude="70.82" />
<city name="Qaleh-ye" population="9152" latitude="37.00" longitude="72.76" />
</region>
</regions>
</nation>
</nations>
</world>

probably looks naff in here, but each country can modifier the base ratings, as can each region if wanted, or a city...

These 'figures' would be used before the Player Creation Modifiers kick in, so in the example above Afghani players would on average have 50% more power but only 25% of the control of an average player, but those in Badakhshan have an average power of 25 due to them being slightly heavier (250lbs).

Ethnicities are also controllable at what ever level you want, currently it's only country wide...

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by kq76

I think it would be best to have the option of either as I can easily see different people wanting to do it different ways. If it absolutely has to be one or the other, I'd also say team.

I really like RMc's suggestion though and I'm curious of redsoxford's. I can't say I fully understand it all yet though and I would be worried about the game working well enough with all the limitations.

Which is why I don't like the idea of it either being solely on league nationality or team nationality.

Say you had an MLB setup and wanted to impose a 5 foreigner limit on the teams. If it was done on team nationality, the Blue Jays would be limited in the number of Americans they could hold - hence the reason for my third set of limits.

[Tony M]

OK. In response to a request, I'll try to explain my limits idea with proper names and stuff.

Imagine a league consisting of the following four teams

London (England)
Cardiff (Wales)
Edinburgh (Scotland)
Belfast (Northern Ireland)

currently in OOTP8 players would be based on the league nationality as would the foreigner limits, so if the league was English with a limit of 8 foreigners, the Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast teams would be limited to having 8 non-English players.

The first of my limits is 'any foreigners'

Set this to 8, say and it would mean that the team in London would have to have at least 17 English players on the 25 man roster, and the team in Cardiff would have to have at least 17 Welsh players. The other 8 can come from wherever they like in the world. This is equivalent to 'team nationality based limits'

The second of my limits is 'foreigners from within the league'

The number of 'foreigners from within the league' has to be at most the 'any foreigners' limit, but these foreigners are those that come from nations represented in the league. So, if 'any foreigners' was set to 8, and 'foreigners from within the league' was set to 5 you could have the following possibilities

London could have 17 English players, 5 Scottish and 3 from countries other than England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland
or, London could have 20 English players, 1 Scot, 1 Welsh, 1 Northern Irish and 2 from other countries
Edinburgh could have 17 Scottish players, 3 Welsh, 2 English and 3 others (but they couldn't be from Northern Ireland as that would breech the 5 limit for league foreigners)

The third of my limits is 'foreigners from outwith the league'. This too has to be less than or equal to the 'any foreigners limit'. If this was set, for example, to 4 in the above example a team could have

London, 17 English, 2 Welsh, 1 Scottish and 4 from elsewhere other than Northern Ireland,

but couldn't have 17 English, 1 Welsh and 7 from elsewhere in the world because that would breach the rules.

So if with the '8 foreigners, 5 of whom can be from league nations, 4 of whom can be from other nations' and you run a team with 8 foreigners there are only two possibilities

1) you have 5 league foreigners and 3 non-league foreigners
or 2) you have 4 league foreigners and 4 non-league foreigners

If you only have 7 total foreigners you gain a bit more in that you can have 5+2 or 4+3 or 3+4

That's probably made it even less clear than before now

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

This will probably be too late for 9, but maybe in 10.

The only problem with multinational leagues is that all players are created 'equal' - the league has an average level that players will be created around.

It would be nice if the world setup files (nations.txt, cities.txt, ethnicities.txt, etc) could be combined and allow for more realistic world-tinkering.

For example something like the following

probably looks naff in here, but each country can modifier the base ratings, as can each region if wanted, or a city...

These 'figures' would be used before the Player Creation Modifiers kick in, so in the example above Afghani players would on average have 50% more power but only 25% of the control of an average player, but those in Badakhshan have an average power of 25 due to them being slightly heavier (250lbs).

Ethnicities are also controllable at what ever level you want, currently it's only country wide...

Cool idea.
</modifier></ratings></ethnicity></ethnicities></region></regions></modifier></ratings></worldregion></ethnicities></nation></nations></worldregion></worldregion></worldregion></worldregion></worldregion></worldregions></speed></running></centrefield></leftfield></shortstop></thirdbase></secondbase></firstbase></catcher></pitcher></fielding></starter></endurance></control></movement></stuff></pitching></eye></power></gap></contact></batting></height></physical></baseratings></world>

[kq76]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

OK. In response to a request, I'll try to explain my limits idea with proper names and stuff.

Thanks. I ended up reading it before hitting the hay after all and it is much clearer.

I like it. I vote for it. Is there anything RMc wanted with his that redsoxford's doesn't do?

With this proposal it can be set up league-wide and then tweaked on a per team basis, right? That way you could say certain countries have certain rules and others don't.

Originally Posted by redsoxford

So if with the '8 foreigners, 5 of whom can be from league nations, 4 of whom can be from other nations' and you run a team with 8 foreigners there are only two possibilities

1) you have 5 league foreigners and 3 non-league foreigners
or 2) you have 4 league foreigners and 4 non-league foreigners

If you only have 7 total foreigners you gain a bit more in that you can have 5+2 or 4+3 or 3+4

That's probably made it even less clear than before now

This part begins to confuse it a bit again, but sticking to what's above it is good. Thanks again for detailing it.