Contract negotiation question

damonrusst · 06-04-2008, 10:44 PM

So I'm playing in 1934 and was trying to sign Chuck Klein. According to my owner I had $72000 available for signings for the next year. My first offer was a 3 year contract that averaged out to $25000/yr. My owner yet me submit that and Klein said he wanted an extra year and a little more cash.

I decided to try to meet his demands which were $40000/yr for 4 years. My owner wouldn't approve the deal. I tried different variations, even shorter contracts that amounted to less than $72000 total. The owner wouldn't approve any of them. I thought it might be a bug that wouldn't let me offer or edit a new contract while the original offer was still hanging out there.

so I withdrew that offer and then Klein refused to negotiate with me.

Anyone know how I could have handled this? Is there an edit offer screen I'm missing? How is the owner's approval of deals determined? Up to this point, if the first year of the contract was under the amount we had for signings that year, the offer would go through. Could the owner just not think Klein was worth it?

I'm very confused. I should add Klein was on my team the previous year but the owner refused to give me any cash for contract extensions. So I lost him to free agency.

Any advice would be appreciated.

chimanbj · 06-05-2008, 11:25 AM

Financials are never easy. It's quite possible that a guaranteed contract could put you over the limit in a few years, which is maybe why your owner didn't let you make the offer. Of course, you could just switch to commish mode and make any deals that you want.

damonrusst · 06-05-2008, 05:31 PM

Is there any way to see the limits in future years? I've got lots of guys in their arbitration cycles so he may be holding the money close because he doesn't know how much he will owe. But seems like there should be somewhere to at least get a feel for what kind of contracts you can offer.

I can't figure out why I was denied. I had $72000 avail for signings, my first offer went through

$25000/yr for 3 yrs +5000MVP bonus for $90000 total

any other combination didn't seem to work. Is there a chance it was factoring the existing offer into the total money being offered? HOw can I edit an existing offer that doesn't get rejected without withdrawing it?

I don't want to switch to commish mode at this point because I like the idea of having to deal with an owner but if I can't figure out why he's doing what he's doing, I might have to turn it off.

damonrusst · 06-06-2008, 05:02 PM

I realize everyone is busy posting on the OOTP9 threads but I could really use some help with this.

If my owner says I have $72000 for signings for this year, what exactly does that mean? The contract I offered was under that amount for the current year but I was still denied. How do I find out how much is available for future years?

Any advice would be appreciated.

zekester91 · 06-06-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonrusst

I realize everyone is busy posting on the OOTP9 threads but I could really use some help with this.

If my owner says I have $72000 for signings for this year, what exactly does that mean? The contract I offered was under that amount for the current year but I was still denied. How do I find out how much is available for future years?

Any advice would be appreciated.

That means you can add 72000 to your team this year. The game gets kinda confusing on what you can spend in future years. I don't think you can know what you have for future years. you can check the contract report, and it will show you how much your spending in those years, but at least I haven't fugired out what makes my owner tick yet.

OldFatGuy · 06-06-2008, 06:00 PM

Whenever something like this happens to me, I go to one of my own guys and attempt to sign a contract extension. When you go THAT screen, the box will tell you how much you have for signing NEXT year. Frequently, the amount you have for signing NEXT year is significantly lower than the amount you have for signing THIS year.

So, when your owner refuses to let you sign someone THIS year, it makes sense it certain cases but not in others. For example, if the FA you're attempting to sign is under 6 years ML experience, he will either be eligible for arbitration or for automatic contract renewel. So, it makes sense if you attempt to sign one of these players for even a one year contract, because you are potentially committing yourself to expenditures NEXT year in this case. This also makes sense if you're attempting to sign ANY FA for a multi-year deal, as the owner must consider the amount available NEXT year in this case as well.

Where it doesn't make sense, its when you attempt to sign a FA with over 6 years ML experience to a one year deal THIS year. In this case, the owner should not be concerned with the amount available for signings NEXT year because in this there is no potential committment becase this player will become a FA at the end of THIS year. Thus, in that case the only consideration should be the amount available for THIS year. But, for some reason I can't figure (other than its a bug), even in this case it won't let you sign a FA.

damonrusst · 06-06-2008, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the info. It would be cool if we got some message from the owner like "Our financial situation is too uncertain next year to offer this kind of contract" or something like that. A little more info than just "your owner does NOT approve this offer"

I have a suspicion though that the fact that Klein didn't reject the contract outright might have had something to do with it too. He left the offer on the table, just asked for a little more cash and an extra year. Could the AI have seen that as an outstanding offer adding to our bottom line? Klein had rejected contracts before that completely and I had no problem offering him new ones but as soon as he left this one on the table, my owner got stingy. Couldn't find a place to edit the existing offer so i withdrew it and he refused to negotiate with me and signed with the cards.

Am I missing an option to edit existing offers? I wasn't cutting off negotiations, was actually trying to give him what he wanted.

Is this a minor bug? Or am i missing something here?

OldFatGuy · 06-06-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonrusst

Thanks for the info. It would be cool if we got some message from the owner like "Our financial situation is too uncertain next year to offer this kind of contract" or something like that. A little more info than just "your owner does NOT approve this offer"

Agreed

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonrusst

I have a suspicion though that the fact that Klein didn't reject the contract outright might have had something to do with it too. He left the offer on the table, just asked for a little more cash and an extra year. Could the AI have seen that as an outstanding offer adding to our bottom line? Klein had rejected contracts before that completely and I had no problem offering him new ones but as soon as he left this one on the table, my owner got stingy. Couldn't find a place to edit the existing offer so i withdrew it and he refused to negotiate with me and signed with the cards.

Am I missing an option to edit existing offers? I wasn't cutting off negotiations, was actually trying to give him what he wanted.

Is this a minor bug? Or am i missing something here?

Not sure on this one. Whenever I get a personal message from the player asking for more money or mocking my offer, the liitle box next to his name on the Pending Contracts screen changes from "Pending" to "Wants more $$" or something like that. At that point I'm sure that the owner no longer counts those $$ against your budget. And, I've always been able to click on that button and be able to adjust the numbers and submit a new offer, UNLESS, of course, when I adjusted the offer, the new offer puts me over the allowed amount.

Another thing to consider is this. If you have a guy with say 5 years of ML service, and you look under his contract status next to Arbitration Eligible, it will say something like "Eligible, but may become FA after season." If you click on Front Office, and then click on "Potential Free Agents" and you see his name, you will see that right now the owner is considering him a free agent next year. However, if he's in the minors (or on the reserve roster) for awhile and not accruing ML service time, then later in the year you will click on "Potential Free Agents" and his name will NOT appear there, and thus, the owner is now considering him arbitration eligible, which will lower the amount of money available for next season.

Did I just explain that very well or did I just ramble again??? I'm very good at the latter.

tysok · 06-07-2008, 02:04 AM

Speaking only of my experience with OOTP2007, the owner does "hold" way too much out for arbitration estimates. It's way over estimating the guy, and there's no where to see what that estimate is.

I saw no pattern, but on occasion it would consider an offer that was refused as an open offer... which means it considers the money in the refused contract as spent. Which seriously hampers you when you're dealing with a tight budget. It didn't happen all the time, and I never found a pattern (although I didn't really look that hard).

Another poster said this, but the $ you have for free agents is this year. The only way to see what you have available for future years is to go try to offer an extension. What you have there is what you have available for any future years... if you have 10 million available there for next year, you have 10 million available for year 3, 4, 5, 6, etc as well... even if you have no guaranteed contracts in year 3 and you budget is 100 million, you still only have that 10 million available.

From the opening post, most likely you ran into the problem in the second paragraph, and when you withdrew your offer (it might have fixed it so you had the money again but) you pissed him off.

damonrusst · 06-07-2008, 05:27 PM

thanks for all the info. I just tried offering the same deal I was offering to klein to another player and it still wouldn't let me do it. Even though deal was off the table. Wouldn't let me offer even a one year deal if the total amt was over 25000. So who knows. A bit more detail on how much we have available would be cool.

I guess I need to click on "wants more cash" to be able to edit the offer.

06-04-2008, 10:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
damonrusst Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 172	Contract negotiation question So I'm playing in 1934 and was trying to sign Chuck Klein. According to my owner I had $72000 available for signings for the next year. My first offer was a 3 year contract that averaged out to $25000/yr. My owner yet me submit that and Klein said he wanted an extra year and a little more cash. I decided to try to meet his demands which were $40000/yr for 4 years. My owner wouldn't approve the deal. I tried different variations, even shorter contracts that amounted to less than $72000 total. The owner wouldn't approve any of them. I thought it might be a bug that wouldn't let me offer or edit a new contract while the original offer was still hanging out there. so I withdrew that offer and then Klein refused to negotiate with me. Anyone know how I could have handled this? Is there an edit offer screen I'm missing? How is the owner's approval of deals determined? Up to this point, if the first year of the contract was under the amount we had for signings that year, the offer would go through. Could the owner just not think Klein was worth it? I'm very confused. I should add Klein was on my team the previous year but the owner refused to give me any cash for contract extensions. So I lost him to free agency. Any advice would be appreciated.

06-05-2008, 11:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 705	Financials are never easy. It's quite possible that a guaranteed contract could put you over the limit in a few years, which is maybe why your owner didn't let you make the offer. Of course, you could just switch to commish mode and make any deals that you want. __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

06-07-2008, 02:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,463	Speaking only of my experience with OOTP2007, the owner does "hold" way too much out for arbitration estimates. It's way over estimating the guy, and there's no where to see what that estimate is. I saw no pattern, but on occasion it would consider an offer that was refused as an open offer... which means it considers the money in the refused contract as spent. Which seriously hampers you when you're dealing with a tight budget. It didn't happen all the time, and I never found a pattern (although I didn't really look that hard). Another poster said this, but the $ you have for free agents is this year. The only way to see what you have available for future years is to go try to offer an extension. What you have there is what you have available for any future years... if you have 10 million available there for next year, you have 10 million available for year 3, 4, 5, 6, etc as well... even if you have no guaranteed contracts in year 3 and you budget is 100 million, you still only have that 10 million available. From the opening post, most likely you ran into the problem in the second paragraph, and when you withdrew your offer (it might have fixed it so you had the money again but) you pissed him off. __________________ I don't know about you, but as for me, the question has already been answered: Should we be here? Yes! Jack Buck, September 17, 2001 It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. I firmly believe that any man's finest hour... is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi) I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom. (George S. Patton)

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06-05-2008, 05:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
damonrusst Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 172	Is there any way to see the limits in future years? I've got lots of guys in their arbitration cycles so he may be holding the money close because he doesn't know how much he will owe. But seems like there should be somewhere to at least get a feel for what kind of contracts you can offer. I can't figure out why I was denied. I had $72000 avail for signings, my first offer went through $25000/yr for 3 yrs +5000MVP bonus for $90000 total any other combination didn't seem to work. Is there a chance it was factoring the existing offer into the total money being offered? HOw can I edit an existing offer that doesn't get rejected without withdrawing it? I don't want to switch to commish mode at this point because I like the idea of having to deal with an owner but if I can't figure out why he's doing what he's doing, I might have to turn it off.

06-06-2008, 05:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
damonrusst Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 172	I realize everyone is busy posting on the OOTP9 threads but I could really use some help with this. If my owner says I have $72000 for signings for this year, what exactly does that mean? The contract I offered was under that amount for the current year but I was still denied. How do I find out how much is available for future years? Any advice would be appreciated.

06-06-2008, 06:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
OldFatGuy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern Va., Loudoun County Posts: 739	Whenever something like this happens to me, I go to one of my own guys and attempt to sign a contract extension. When you go THAT screen, the box will tell you how much you have for signing NEXT year. Frequently, the amount you have for signing NEXT year is significantly lower than the amount you have for signing THIS year. So, when your owner refuses to let you sign someone THIS year, it makes sense it certain cases but not in others. For example, if the FA you're attempting to sign is under 6 years ML experience, he will either be eligible for arbitration or for automatic contract renewel. So, it makes sense if you attempt to sign one of these players for even a one year contract, because you are potentially committing yourself to expenditures NEXT year in this case. This also makes sense if you're attempting to sign ANY FA for a multi-year deal, as the owner must consider the amount available NEXT year in this case as well. Where it doesn't make sense, its when you attempt to sign a FA with over 6 years ML experience to a one year deal THIS year. In this case, the owner should not be concerned with the amount available for signings NEXT year because in this there is no potential committment becase this player will become a FA at the end of THIS year. Thus, in that case the only consideration should be the amount available for THIS year. But, for some reason I can't figure (other than its a bug), even in this case it won't let you sign a FA.

06-06-2008, 07:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
damonrusst Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 172	Thanks for the info. It would be cool if we got some message from the owner like "Our financial situation is too uncertain next year to offer this kind of contract" or something like that. A little more info than just "your owner does NOT approve this offer" I have a suspicion though that the fact that Klein didn't reject the contract outright might have had something to do with it too. He left the offer on the table, just asked for a little more cash and an extra year. Could the AI have seen that as an outstanding offer adding to our bottom line? Klein had rejected contracts before that completely and I had no problem offering him new ones but as soon as he left this one on the table, my owner got stingy. Couldn't find a place to edit the existing offer so i withdrew it and he refused to negotiate with me and signed with the cards. Am I missing an option to edit existing offers? I wasn't cutting off negotiations, was actually trying to give him what he wanted. Is this a minor bug? Or am i missing something here?

06-07-2008, 05:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
damonrusst Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 172	thanks for all the info. I just tried offering the same deal I was offering to klein to another player and it still wouldn't let me do it. Even though deal was off the table. Wouldn't let me offer even a one year deal if the total amt was over 25000. So who knows. A bit more detail on how much we have available would be cool. I guess I need to click on "wants more cash" to be able to edit the offer.