V.10 Suggestion: Player Averaging By Season Range

DaddyO · 06-06-2008, 02:19 PM

I have often wanted to distill teams from 3 to 5 year periods and play a season based on those periods. Say for example, the years 1965 through 1968. Take each team, construct a roster based on preponderance of games played at position over the period, and have the players ratings based on their average production during that period.

This way you even out up years and down years and get a true picture of each team's relative strength during the period. The Twins were great in '65, the Orioles in '66, the Red Sox in '67, the Tigers in '68. But which team would win the AL in an overall contest from the period?

You'd have to be able to make tweaks, because obviously some players would appear on the roster of multiple teams due to trades. You'd have to decide if you want to live with multiple versions of the same real-life player or have to parcel them out to one team or the other.

Anyway, it would be great if version 10 had the capability to list the player's year-by-year stats, put a check box next to each year so you could make a custom selection, then hit an "Average Player Production Over Selected Years" button that would normalize the stats and then average them. Player usage could be included in team roster construction so the guys with the most PT would be the starters, etc.

Thoughts?

Curtis · 06-08-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyO

The Twins were great in '65, the Orioles in '66, the Red Sox in '67, the Tigers in '68. But which team would win the AL in an overall contest from the period?

The Orioles.

So, how are you handling it now? Take 1968 or 69 and use five year recalc, then place the players on the teams they spent the most time with?

DaddyO · 06-08-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

The Orioles.

So, how are you handling it now? Take 1968 or 69 and use five year recalc, then place the players on the teams they spent the most time with?

I don't use OOTP currently, but am looking seriously at OOTP9. Have owned OOTP2006 and 2007 but never could get into them like I have the Diamond Mind PC game. I have started projects to make my own rosters and teams for that game, but it's too tedious and time consuming. With the demise of further development for that game, my hope of being able to do it is pretty much vanished. Markus seems to have the motivation to develop innovative tools for this game.

Your five-year recalc suggestion is interesting, since simply assigning to players already rated to current rosters is the easy part. Can you explain how the recalc would work? Does it go five-years ahead, or does it go back? If this tool really accomplishes most of what I want, that's great, although my idea is to be able to custom tailor your years selection for each individual player, then hit a "generate player" button based on the selected years. Theoretically the years would then not even have to be contiguous. Say, for example, if a player got injured for a year or two during the 5-year span, then you could, if you wanted, just skip the injury years for that one player while using those years for most players.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting suggestion and I look forward to hearing back from you.

EDITED TO ADD: Just saw the answer to how recalc works on another thread, so it sounds like this setting accomplishes much of what I am looking for, just missing some of the flexibility. Sounds great, and another reason why I may find myself finally taking the OOTP plunge and really meaning it this time.

DaddyO · 06-08-2008, 10:09 PM

You know, I messed with the demo of OOTP8 and it doesn't seem to work so well for what I want, for two reasons.

First, if I import, say, 1965, I get 1965 players rated according to the next 5 years. Ernie Banks is a one star player. If a player isn't on an MLB roster in 65 but comes up in, say, 1966, then he doesn't show up except on a ghost roster with lesser ratings, or so it seems.

So while this accomplishes some things (and thanks for the suggestion), the project still seems unrealistic with just this setting. The tool I suggest, while seemingly not of great interest to most here, since yours was the only reply I got, would really not be that hard to develop. The player creation algorithms are all set, and the ability to recalc according to a specified set of data is already built in, so it would seem that just the ability to present to the user a dataset and screen showing a selected player with a list of his totals for each year and a check box next to each. If the year is checked, include the data from those years in the recalc. Once the user hits the "Create Player" button, it's done, and he's available to add to a roster.

That's easy for me to say, and it may be harder than I think.

And if it's not in demand, it may be prioritized out. That's OK. Just a suggestion.

Curtis · 06-08-2008, 10:23 PM

Sorry, DaddyO, I was just trying to give you a bump.

Considering my track record tonight, I should probably avoid making this observation, but it sounds to me as though you might be interested in an idea someone came up with back in 2006. In that one the request was to be able to import (or calculate by) a player's 'peak' season or average of five best seasons. If I remember correctly that discussion never caught Markus's attention and eventually devolved into an arguement over how to decide which was a player's peak season.

DaddyO · 06-09-2008, 10:38 AM

Yeah, thanks anyway for taking the time to respond.

I didn't see that thread. The suggestion there is similar to DMB's All-Time Great Players Disks, which averages a players best three consecutive seasons.

While that's a good idea, I like mine even better, because it allows the increased flexibility for the user to customize exactly what seasons will be included in the averaging. In my case the reason is because I'm not so much going for a player peak average as I am his average over a custom set of years of his own choosing. This allows creative ideas to flourish about how to use this capability. Always a good thing.

ctorg · 06-09-2008, 10:56 AM

I think the best way to go about this is to customize the Lahman database. Maybe it's just because I work with databases, but that seems like the easiest thing (probably easiest using MS Access and then exporting to csv when done).

You pull out the five years in question for all players. Query to create average seasons for all players. Determine how you want to do team placement. Export to csv.

If you want to have multiple iterations of the same player for different teams, you have it generate a new master.csv and have it create the player id key out of the old one plus the team abbreviation.

DaddyO · 06-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Right, ctorg.

The trick is the normalization algorithm. If it was just a matter of averaging season statistics that's something I could probably get done. But OOTP has built in normalization and...I don't.

Plus, you're talking about significantly increasing the time required, which is a problem for me.

But thanks for the suggestion, because that's pretty much what I'm left with until a baseball sim integrates the type of functionality I'm talking about. Where there's a will, and the tools, and the time, and the energy, there's a way.

06-06-2008, 02:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
DaddyO Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 158	V.10 Suggestion: Player Averaging By Season Range I have often wanted to distill teams from 3 to 5 year periods and play a season based on those periods. Say for example, the years 1965 through 1968. Take each team, construct a roster based on preponderance of games played at position over the period, and have the players ratings based on their average production during that period. This way you even out up years and down years and get a true picture of each team's relative strength during the period. The Twins were great in '65, the Orioles in '66, the Red Sox in '67, the Tigers in '68. But which team would win the AL in an overall contest from the period? You'd have to be able to make tweaks, because obviously some players would appear on the roster of multiple teams due to trades. You'd have to decide if you want to live with multiple versions of the same real-life player or have to parcel them out to one team or the other. Anyway, it would be great if version 10 had the capability to list the player's year-by-year stats, put a check box next to each year so you could make a custom selection, then hit an "Average Player Production Over Selected Years" button that would normalize the stats and then average them. Player usage could be included in team roster construction so the guys with the most PT would be the starters, etc. Thoughts?

06-08-2008, 10:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 2,734	Sorry, DaddyO, I was just trying to give you a bump. Considering my track record tonight, I should probably avoid making this observation, but it sounds to me as though you might be interested in an idea someone came up with back in 2006. In that one the request was to be able to import (or calculate by) a player's 'peak' season or average of five best seasons. If I remember correctly that discussion never caught Markus's attention and eventually devolved into an arguement over how to decide which was a player's peak season. __________________ Continuing a campaign to promote adding a 'mass select' option to Out of the Park 10. sigh

06-09-2008, 10:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
ctorg Moderator* Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9,372	I think the best way to go about this is to customize the Lahman database. Maybe it's just because I work with databases, but that seems like the easiest thing (probably easiest using MS Access and then exporting to csv when done). You pull out the five years in question for all players. Query to create average seasons for all players. Determine how you want to do team placement. Export to csv. If you want to have multiple iterations of the same player for different teams, you have it generate a new master.csv and have it create the player id key out of the old one plus the team abbreviation. __________________ THE VERY US ARTISTS - A project for musicians and visual artists My music Currently reading: Thirteen by Richard Morgan "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

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06-08-2008, 10:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
DaddyO Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 158	You know, I messed with the demo of OOTP8 and it doesn't seem to work so well for what I want, for two reasons. First, if I import, say, 1965, I get 1965 players rated according to the next 5 years. Ernie Banks is a one star player. If a player isn't on an MLB roster in 65 but comes up in, say, 1966, then he doesn't show up except on a ghost roster with lesser ratings, or so it seems. So while this accomplishes some things (and thanks for the suggestion), the project still seems unrealistic with just this setting. The tool I suggest, while seemingly not of great interest to most here, since yours was the only reply I got, would really not be that hard to develop. The player creation algorithms are all set, and the ability to recalc according to a specified set of data is already built in, so it would seem that just the ability to present to the user a dataset and screen showing a selected player with a list of his totals for each year and a check box next to each. If the year is checked, include the data from those years in the recalc. Once the user hits the "Create Player" button, it's done, and he's available to add to a roster. That's easy for me to say, and it may be harder than I think. And if it's not in demand, it may be prioritized out. That's OK. Just a suggestion.

06-09-2008, 10:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
DaddyO Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 158	Yeah, thanks anyway for taking the time to respond. I didn't see that thread. The suggestion there is similar to DMB's All-Time Great Players Disks, which averages a players best three consecutive seasons. While that's a good idea, I like mine even better, because it allows the increased flexibility for the user to customize exactly what seasons will be included in the averaging. In my case the reason is because I'm not so much going for a player peak average as I am his average over a custom set of years of his own choosing. This allows creative ideas to flourish about how to use this capability. Always a good thing.

06-09-2008, 11:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
DaddyO Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 158	Right, ctorg. The trick is the normalization algorithm. If it was just a matter of averaging season statistics that's something I could probably get done. But OOTP has built in normalization and...I don't. Plus, you're talking about significantly increasing the time required, which is a problem for me. But thanks for the suggestion, because that's pretty much what I'm left with until a baseball sim integrates the type of functionality I'm talking about. Where there's a will, and the tools, and the time, and the energy, there's a way.