Fielding stat error?

[StyxNCa]

I'm not sure of the official scoring of baseball, but if I play a person at a position, then move him to another position, then later return him to his original position in the game, i.e he plays LF twice in the same game, he gets credit for 2 games played at that position. Is this an OOTP error or is this how it would be officially counted IRL.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

I'm not sure of the official scoring of baseball, but if I play a person at a position, then move him to another position, then later return him to his original position in the game, i.e he plays LF twice in the same game, he gets credit for 2 games played at that position. Is this an OOTP error or is this how it would be officially counted IRL.

If you're asking what would happen IRL, well he would only be credited with playing one game in LF. So, it sounds like a bug if OOTP is crediting him with 2 games played in LF.

EDIT: I've even seen two instances in the last couple of years where a pitcher was used twice in the same game. In the last one (this season) he pitched to a RHB, the manager (LaRussa I think, it was a while ago) brought in a lefty to face the next guy and put the pitcher in left field for one hitter, then after the lefty he brought the pitcher back in from left field to continue pitching.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

If you're asking what would happen IRL, well he would only be credited with playing one game in LF. So, it sounds like a bug if OOTP is crediting him with 2 games played in LF.

Yes, that's what I was asking. Thanks for the response. Hopefully Markus will read this and check into it.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

EDIT: I've even seen two instances in the last couple of years where a pitcher was used twice in the same game. In the last one (this season) he pitched to a RHB, the manager (LaRussa I think, it was a while ago) brought in a lefty to face the next guy and put the pitcher in left field for one hitter, then after the lefty he brought the pitcher back in from left field to continue pitching.

Yes, I've seen some instances like that in real games. That makes me wonder if a starter can also get a save or a hold if he finishes a game after coming back to pitch after playing another position in that game.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

EDIT: I've even seen two instances in the last couple of years where a pitcher was used twice in the same game. In the last one (this season) he pitched to a RHB, the manager (LaRussa I think, it was a while ago) brought in a lefty to face the next guy and put the pitcher in left field for one hitter, then after the lefty he brought the pitcher back in from left field to continue pitching.

Wouldn't suprise me if it was LaRussa. I've done in OOTP.

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

Yes, I've seen some instances like that in real games. That makes me wonder if a starter can also get a save or a hold if he finishes a game after coming back to pitch after playing another position in that game.

They don't in OOTP, I've tried it. They wouldn't in real life either, since one of the criteria for a save is "is not the winning pitcher".

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

They don't in OOTP, I've tried it. They wouldn't in real life either, since one of the criteria for a save is "is not the winning pitcher".

Now that you mention that, I think I did read that somewhere. When you tried it, did you happen to notice if he got credit for 2 games at pitcher in his defensive stats?

What would happen if he changed positions in a tie game or behind, then came back with the team ahead in a save opportunity situation?

[Childress]

This seems one of those micro-bugs that can wait for a patch.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

What would happen if he changed positions in a tie game or behind, then came back with the team ahead in a save opportunity situation?

Well this is the rule for saves.

10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings.

This is a tough one to me. In your situation he satisfies a), b), c) and either d1) or d2), and d3). The key definition is would he be regarded as a "relief pitcher" in the second appearance, or still as the "starting pitcher"? I'm going to guess he would still be the starter as that was when he entered the game, but I don't know for certain.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Wouldn't suprise me if it was LaRussa. I've done in OOTP.

Whitey Herzog would do that occasionally.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

Well this is the rule for saves.



This is a tough one to me. In your situation he satisfies a), b), c) and either d1) or d2), and d3). The key definition is would he be regarded as a "relief pitcher" in the second appearance, or still as the "starting pitcher"? I'm going to guess he would still be the starter as that was when he entered the game, but I don't know for certain.

Yeah. My guess is he would still be considered the starter.

[Left-handed Badger]

I think the Mets did it in one game way back with Orosco and a right-hander (McDowell?). And switched them around for a couple of innings based on who was batting. (P and RF). Not sure though.


I do remember for sure in the early 90s. The Cubs moved a pitcher named Les Lancaster to LF for one batter to set up a L vs. L situation.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I think the Mets did it in one game way back with Orosco and a right-hander (McDowell?). And switched them around for a couple of innings based on who was batting. (P and RF). Not sure though.


I do remember for sure in the early 90s. The Cubs moved a pitcher named Les Lancaster to LF for one batter to set up a L vs. L situation.

Sounds like it's not that rare.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I think the Mets did it in one game way back with Orosco and a right-hander (McDowell?). And switched them around for a couple of innings based on who was batting. (P and RF). Not sure though.

You've got the pitchers right. When I tried to find a real life example, I found that one.
New York were at Cincinnati and it was in 1986.
Wack job: Pitchers forced into OF duty -- Newsday.com
Retrosheet Boxscore: New York Mets 6, Cincinnati Reds 3

[StyxNCa]

Markus, will this be fixed?

[StyxNCa]

No reply from Markus on this.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

You've got the pitchers right. When I tried to find a real life example, I found that one.
New York were at Cincinnati and it was in 1986.
Wack job: Pitchers forced into OF duty -- Newsday.com
Retrosheet Boxscore: New York Mets 6, Cincinnati Reds 3

Interesting point relevant to this sort of talk, is it possible to get a blown save and a save in the same game?

Earlier I was messing about with trying to get a guy to play all 9 positions in a game (Inspired by an SI.com photo gallery on utility players!), and he pitched an inning, and blew the save, the game went to extra innings, and there was a save chance later on. I he had come back to pitch, from LF, would he have got both the blown save and the save? Or just a save?

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Interesting point relevant to this sort of talk, is it possible to get a blown save and a save in the same game?

No. Once you've blown the save that's it.

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Earlier I was messing about with trying to get a guy to play all 9 positions in a game (Inspired by an SI.com photo gallery on utility players!), and he pitched an inning, and blew the save, the game went to extra innings, and there was a save chance later on. I he had come back to pitch, from LF, would he have got both the blown save and the save? Or just a save?

He'd be eligible for the win, although as he lost the lead I guess the middle pitcher would not only be the pitcher of record but the most effective, and so he'd get nothing (other than the blown save).

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

He'd be eligible for the win, although as he lost the lead I guess the middle pitcher would not only be the pitcher of record but the most effective, and so he'd get nothing (other than the blown save).

Would this be the case in OOTP?

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Would this be the case in OOTP?

If you mean the most effective pitcher rule (or guidance to be more precise), then no it isn't.
As for the rest of it, you'll have to test it out because I don't know.

EDIT - Here's the thread that shows the lack of the ineffective pitcher guidance if you want to read it.
Awarding the win in relief outings

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

If you mean the most effective pitcher rule (or guidance to be more precise), then no it isn't.
As for the rest of it, you'll have to test it out because I don't know.

EDIT - Here's the thread that shows the lack of the ineffective pitcher guidance if you want to read it.
Awarding the win in relief outings

Just curious, but that section of the rulebook you quoted, did you pull that out of the section describing what happens in the case of a starting pitcher not going 5 innings????

When the starting pitcher goes less than 5 and doesn't qualify for the win, I was of the understanding that's the only time the official scorer has discretion. In all other cases of lead changes, etc., I don't believe the official scorer has discretion. But, could be wrong. Have been before, will be again.