Gambo & Echopapa Stadium Data

[Gambo]

Echopapa and I have created an updated compilation of stadiums with ballpark factors for use in the game...

Here is the readme...

Gambo & Echopapa Stadiums (version 1)

This is a compilation of stadium information for about 500 stadiums for use in OOTP Baseball.

This is a compilation of both my work and echopapas research. We have gathered as much information as possible concerning wall distances and wall heights and other information.

I used and modified the ball park factor conversion sheet in order the create a standard and produce appropriate factors for each ballpark, including altitude adjustments.

The database is pretty self explanatory. I divided the parks for ease according to Modern, Classic, Deadball and Foreign Ballparks. At the bottom of the chart is an explaination for each column.

I have also included 275 park photos for use in the game. They are sized at 1024x768 and the use of each photo is noted.

I do plan on doing a bit more work on this.

Any questions or comments just PM or post.

Thank You,
Gambo & Echopapa

If you are interested in hosting let me know. Other wise I will provide a rapidshare link...

[Gambo]

http://rapidshare.de/files/31078766/GamboEchopapa.zip

[jtb]

Thankyou Gambo!
You have been an awesome contributor for a long time.

[bp_]

Cool, thanks. I guess I have more work to do on my fictional MLB setup now.

[eriqjaffe]

This is absolutely awesome.

If I may ask, where did you dig up information on Gordon & Koppel Field? 'Cause I couldn't find anything.

[Charlie Hough]

Does this file include foreign stadiums? I'm currently downloading it, but it's going to take an hour thanks to Rapidshare, so I'm wondering if I could get an answer here first.

[eriqjaffe]

It does have some, yes. This is straight from the Excel file included in the download:

Calgary	AB	CAN	Burns Stadium
Edmonton	AB	CAN	Telus Field
Vancouver	BC	CAN	Capilano Stadium
Berlin	GE	EUR	Berlin Olympiastadion
Chiba	JP	JAP	Chiba Marine Stadium
Fukuoka	JP	JAP	Fukuoka Dome
Hiroshima	JP	JAP	Hiroshima Shimin Kyujo
Kobe	JP	JAP	Green Kobe Stadium
Nagoya	JP	JAP	Nagoya Kyujo
Nagoya	JP	JAP	Nagoya Dome
Nishinomiya	JP	JAP	Hanshin Koshien Kyujo
Osaka	JP	JAP	Osaka Dome
Tokorozawa	JP	JAP	Seibu Lions Kyujo
Tokyo	JP	JAP	Meiji Jingo Kyujo
Tokyo	JP	JAP	Korakuen Kyujo
Tokyo	JP	JAP	Tokyo Dome
Yokohama	JP	JAP	Yokohama Stadium
Winnipeg	MB	CAN	Winnipeg Stadium
Winnipeg	MB	CAN	Canwest Global Park
Monterrey	MEX	SA	Estadio Monterrey
Managua	NIC	SA	Estadio Nacional
Hamilton	ON	CAN	Bernie Arbour Stadium
London	ON	CAN	Tecumseh Park
Ottawa	ON	CAN	Lynx Stadium
Toronto	ON	CAN	Exhibition Stadium
Toronto	ON	CAN	Exhibition Stadium
Toronto	ON	CAN	Skydome
San Juan	PR	CAR	Hiram Bithorn Stadium G
San Juan	PR	CAR	Hiram Bithorn Stadium T
Montreal	QU	CAN	Parc Jarry
Montreal	QU	CAN	Stade Olympique
Quebec	QU	CAN	Stade Municipal

[Charlie Hough]

No Korean stadiums.

[gohorns98]

With Ballpark factors, don't you need to normalize the factors based on the other ballparks being used that particular season in that particular league? For example, deadball era ballparks typically had a much large field of play which will allow for more places that they defense had to cover in the outfield. This in turn would allow for higher batting averages, doubles, and triples. Therefore, if you use the 16 ballparks from the deadball era all of the stadiums will give a bump to averages, doubles, and triples. This will cause the era settings to be wrong because of the park factors. What needs to happen is a comparison of the stadiums that a league is using. The average of the stadiums in use by a league should be 1.00 in each category.

This is my thought. I think your database is great, and the pictures will add to my game. Good work guys!

[LeafsFan2005NC]

Woo hoo! Now no more guessing.

[Gambo]

Thanks for the compliments and that is a good point

BUT I have to argue no... (I have to defend myself, heck, even Oppenheimer thought the bomb was a good idea)

It is suitable enough to compare the parks against themselves since we are eliminating the player factor. If the game adjusts players according to era then the ballpark does not have to be adjusted due to that specific year. Park factors by year are very tricky things to go by. Put the 1927-1930 Yankees in Busch Stadium instead of the 1984-87 Cardinal teams and Busch all of a sudden doesnt look like a speed park much at all. The Cardinals built their teams around their stadium (Coleman, McGee, Smith) and not the stadium around the team, Just as the Yankees always aim for Lefty hitters for the short porch in right and the deep power alley in left.

There is only one small thing being forgotten about the era setting being wrong due to the use of stadium factors. If you are using era setting then you are in some way adjusting league totals accordingly. The game will adjust the league totals of the league accordingly, therefore bringing stats more into line anyway. 16 average parks will result in the same league totals as 8 huge and 8 little parks. If you are not adjusting league totals then you would want the results to reflect the fact that you are using 16 bigger ballparks. Speed in your league will be more important in this case.

I hope i'm explaining why ballpark factors in no way should be 1.0 for the league. League Totals modifications will make statistical output accurate for the league. In actuality the ballpark factors should be based on 1.0 for the game engine. Which is what I tried to do..

If however you still would like to go the other way then just extrapolate the data from this database for the parks your gonna use and adjust the ratings to adjust the factors so they all average 1.0.

If you haven't downloaded the database here are some of the numbers from it that may assuade some of your fears. I will work to get these more in line but they are already pretty darn good I feel.

---------2B 3B RBA RHR LBA LHR BPF
All Parks 101 100 101 98 101 100 100
Deadball 103 103 100 92 101 94 99
Classic 100 98 100 100 101 103 100
Modern 99 98 102 103 102 104 101
Foreign 98 89 104 108 103 106 101

Originally Posted by gohorns98

With Ballpark factors, don't you need to normalize the factors based on the other ballparks being used that particular season in that particular league? For example, deadball era ballparks typically had a much large field of play which will allow for more places that they defense had to cover in the outfield. This in turn would allow for higher batting averages, doubles, and triples. Therefore, if you use the 16 ballparks from the deadball era all of the stadiums will give a bump to averages, doubles, and triples. This will cause the era settings to be wrong because of the park factors. What needs to happen is a comparison of the stadiums that a league is using. The average of the stadiums in use by a league should be 1.00 in each category.

This is my thought. I think your database is great, and the pictures will add to my game. Good work guys!

[Gambo]

After all that I guess what I was trying to say...

Therefore, if you use the 16 ballparks from the deadball era all of the stadiums will give a bump to averages, doubles, and triples. This will cause the era settings to be wrong because of the park factors.

If your trying to replicate the actual results from history then the league total modifications will produce the proper results despite the park factors being out of whack. I.E. it will self modify the park factors to average 1.0 with the difference per park being appearant.

If your using the deadball era parks in modern day, your not looking to get historically accurate numbers and i'd think you'd expect and get the increase in these stat outputs as a result.

[Gambo]

Quick Edit...

Busch Stadium T should be 400 CF not 500

[gohorns98]

Gambo,

I understand your point, but this goes back to TigerFans thoughts throughout historical replays that all stadiums should be set to 100 in every catagory because park factors are already built-in to players stats. My thought is that if the League Total settings for a league in 1901 calls for 455 home runs and because of park factors averaging out to 92 for right handers and 94 for left handers you will end up with less home runs in this league then in the actual historical setting. Whereas if you base it on just the 16 stadiums of that year, and you normalize the settings based on the 16 stadiums in use at that time you should end up with a more acurate home run numbers. This should make the stadiums that were more home run friendly to produce more home runs while the stadiums that were less likely to have home runs will remain so fitting with the era. This might be something that a historical simmer would want to phase in over time as players begin to move from their historical teams, and play in stadiums that theirs historical stats do not account for. So you could start with all catagories set at 100, and then after 3 years begin to use park factors to account for a players surroundings.

[Gambo]

I understand and see Tiger Fan's argument and if your doing a historical replay I'd have to agree. However, many of the player databases which have been created (mine, ankit) are normalized to account for parks and eras.

There are 3 types of players you can have in OOTP
1. Historical Players created from Lahman (In this case the park factor issue comes into play.
2. Historical Players created from a Nomalized DB (In this case the park factor issue is not a problem eg a 50 HR hitter in a small park is adjusted so he actually would hit ~40)
3. Players created by the game (Park factors are important. A 7 rated power hitter in a small park may hit more HRs than a 10 rated power hitter in a huge park - I'd say park factors are important)

But let's take two scenarios against eachother.
1. You create two leagues. League A is a historical league with PF set to average 1.0. League B is a historical league with my factors which, for arguments sake, average 1.4. Both leagues start in 19xx and use type 2 or type 3 players.

2. The actual league totals for 19xx are .300 AVG, 1000 2B, 500 HR.

3. A test sim in Lg A produces a .295 AVG, 900 2B, and 420 HR. A test sim in Lg B produces a .335 AVG, 1400 2B and 200 HR.
Most people recommend a test sim just for this reason, i.e. the game will not produce accurate numbers the 1st year. The recommended thing is to backup your original sim. Sim the season, see what the adjustedments the game makes to league totals after the 1st year. Restore your league. Change the league totals to what the game adjusted them to for the 2nd year.

4. Now the game has made separate adjustments according to the league production the 1st year. After that the sim produces for Lg A a .302 AVG, 975 2B and 525 HR. Lg B produces a .297 AVG, 1020 2B and 512 HR.

5. Both league totals are somewhat accurate despite league the differences in park factor average. Both leagues will also show a difference in big parks and small parks.

[echopapa]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

No Korean stadiums.

I've managed to dig up some stats on more foreign stadiums. They may appear in the next release.

[eriqjaffe]

Oh, and would you guys be willing to post/release the pack without all the stadium images? Heck, it could just be an attachment then.

[Bonedwarf]

Oppenheimer:

"The pride which Oppenheimer had felt after the successful "Trinity" test was soon replaced by guilt and horror. "In some sort of crude sense which no vulgarity, no humor, no overstatement can quite extinguish," he later famously said, "the physicists have known sin; and this is a knowledge which they cannot lose.""

So you're likening yourself to this guy... Interesting comparison. Is there something you're not telling us? How many people are going to die from the use of your archive? Just curious...

Nice collection BTW. Was pleased to see my local stadium in there, even if the team does have a dumb name now.

[f.montoya]

This is great! Thanks for the effort Gambo & Echopapa. You should see this available on www.allsimbaseball.com very soon.

[f.montoya]

Now available: http://www.allsimbaseball.com/index....d=18&Itemid=45