VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1942

[Matt from TN]

1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results,
1941 Results


Only Rogers Hornsby was elected to the RL HOF in 1942.

You'll see that some great and exciting players were added to the ballot this year! Ahrend Nagel was supposed to be added 2 yrs ago, but I overlooked him.

All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1942 (retired after 1936 season).

All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed.

Players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected, but since the Veteran's Committee does not begin until 1946, I will do this: If a player is over the 20 year mark, he will be removed from the ballot once 1946 gets here and the VC is in effect. After that point, the regular 20-year rule will be used.

Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10.

HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max.

Batters

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
AVG: .364
Hits: 4000
HR: 460
RBI: 1847
2B: 665
BB: 1643
R: 2004
SB: 921


Jed Burke, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 59
2950 H, 265 2B, 18 HR, 1055 RBI, 1228 R, 600 K, 921 BB, 138 SB, .345 AVG, .851 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 3
Led League in: OBP 4, SLG1, OPS 2, Hits 3, BB 1
Career Top 10: NONE


Patrick Seifried, 1B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 51
2720 H, 313 2B, 59 HR, 1195 RBI, 1348 R, 851 K, 1137 BB, 235 SB, .327 AVG, .867 OPS
BOY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 5
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: 1
Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 1, OPS 2, RBI 2, Runs 2, BB 3
Career Top 10: NONE


Paris "Frenchie" Fournier, 3B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 49
2730 H, 465 2B, 24 HR, 980 RBI, 1511 R, 354 K, 541 BB, 802 SB, .296 AVG, .772 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Hits 2, 2B 1, 3B 2, Runs 4, SB 7
Career Top 10: 3B, Runs, SB


"Dark Horse" Allen, CF, Last Season: 1913, HOF Standard: 42
1795 H, 213 2B, 67 HR, 709 RBI, 907 R, 528 K, 871 BB, 13 SB, .325 AVG, .883 OPS
BOY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: NONE
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: 2
Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 4, OPS 4, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 1, Runs 3, BB 5
Career Top 10: NONE


Charlie Matthews, RF, Last Season: 1929, HOF Standard: 40
2027 H, 449 2B, 93 HR, 1067 RBI, 1159 R, 411 K, 432 BB, 457 SB, .308 AVG, .846 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 5
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 1, RBI 1, Runs 2, SB 3
Career Top 10: NONE


"Ray of Light" Brown, CF, Last Season: 1926, HOF Standard: 49
2526 H, 339 2B, 130 HR, 1155 RBI, 1314 R, 969 K, 828 BB, 167 SB, .300 AVG, .836 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 11
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 2, Runs 1
Career Top 10: 3B


Ron Bennarivo, SS, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 61
2871 H, 458 2B, 135 HR, 1343 RBI, 1668 R, 692 K, 1476 BB, 637 SB, .279 AVG, .784 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: 1
Gold Gloves: 1
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: NONE
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: Runs 1, SB 2
Career Top 10: Runs, BB, SB


NEW


Will Miller, LF, Last Season: 1936, HOF Standard: 62
4000 H, 418 2B, 69 HR, 1399 RBI, 2004 R, 699 K, 868 BB, 921 SB, .351 AVG, .861 OPS
BOY Award: 2
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 2
Pennants: 3
WS Victories: 2
Batting Titles: 4
Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 1, OPS 1, Hits 7, 3B 1, Runs 3
Career Top 10: AVG, Hits, Runs, SB


Marcus Fortson, SS, Last Season: 1936, HOF Standard: 33
1781 H, 438 2B, 134 HR, 1053 RBI, 933 R, 346 K, 439 BB, 91 SB, .282 AVG, .801 OPS
BOY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Gold Gloves: 3
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
Batting Titles: NONE
Led League in: 3B 2, Runs 1
Career Top 10: NONE

[Matt from TN]

Pitchers

Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List):
ERA: 2.10
W: 390
K: 2704
CG: 601
SHO: 95


Will Haggan, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 58
337-299, 53.0%, 3.28 ERA, 5837.1 IP, 1597 BB, 2612 K, 601 CG, 45 SHO, 1.15 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 2
No-Hitters: 2
Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 2
Career Top 10: Wins, K's (#1), CG (#1)


Mark Krosser, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
266-181, 59.5%, 2.50 ERA, 4134.2 IP, 653 BB, 2131 K, 419 CG, 39 SHO, 1.10 WHIP
POY Award: 2
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 2, IP 1, K's 2, CG 2, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, K's


Bowie Castellon, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57
262-146, 64.2%, 2.52 ERA, 3801 IP, 777 BB, 1298 K, 397 CG, 50 SHO, 1.08 WHIP
POY Award: 3
ROY Award: 1
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 3, CG 2
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO


Dave "The Shepard" McBean, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 56
254-151, 62.7%, 2.52 ERA, 3747 IP, 611 BB, 1529 K, 386 CG, 55 SHO, 1.06 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: Wins 3, IP 1, K's 1, CG 3, SHO 1
Career Top 10: ERA, SHO


"Nasty Ned" Fargo, Last Season: 1933, HOF Standard: 46
322-261, 55.2%, 3.99 ERA, 5502 IP, 1073 BB, 1482 K, 415 CG, 31 SHO, 1.24 WHIP
POY Award: 1
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 1
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 5, CG 2
Career Top 10: Wins


"Evil" Gary Archer, Last Season: 1914, HOF Standard: 45
237-188, 55.8%, 2.86 ERA, 3922.1 IP, 984 BB, 1631 K, 405 CG, 47 SHO, 1.09 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: 3
Led League in: WHIP 2, CG 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: NONE


Johnny Swinson, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 44
256-167, 60.5%, 3.23 ERA, 3900.2 IP, 729 BB, 1159 K, 348 CG, 33 SHO, 1.17 WHIP
POY Award: 3
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 3, IP 2, CG 1, SHO 1
Career Top 10: NONE

NEW

Ahrend "Professor" Nagel, Last Season: 1934, HOF Standard: 43
327-272, 54.6%, 3.78 ERA, 5459 IP, 1809 BB, 1395 K, 362 CG, 44 SHO, 1.25 WHIP
POY Award: 5
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 4
WS Victories: NONE
No-Hitters: 1
Led League in: ERA 1, WHIP 3, Wins 4, IP 2, CG 1, SHO 3
Career Top 10: Wins


Benjamin "Jersey" Piccininno, Last Season: 1936, HOF Standard: 12
167-147, 53.2%, 4.24 ERA, 2884.2 IP, 1463 BB, 845 K, 162 CG, 18 SHO, 1.53 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 2
WS Victories: 1
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: NONE
Career Top 10: NONE


Tobe Palmer, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 41
266-185, 59.0%, 3.48 ERA, 4316 IP, 1410 BB, 1763 K, 395 CG, 37 SHO, 1.35 WHIP
POY Award: NONE
ROY Award: NONE
Pennants: 6
WS Victories: 5
No-Hitters: NONE
Led League in: IP 1, K 1
Career Top 10: NONE

[Matt from TN]

Reminder: If you want someone to remain on the ballot, you should vote for him, even if he won't get in this year.

Also, besides the all-time H, R and SB leader Will Miller, we got 5-time POY Professor Nagel and the first of the 5 WS winning "Phantastic Phour," Tobe Palmer! Very exciting!

With new greats like these, time could be running out for older guys like Evil Archer or Dark Horse Allen, who will fall off the ballot in 1946 and head off to the VC.

[Ankhiel]

Burke
Miller
Nagel
haggan

[lgkeeper]

Brown
Miller
Haggan
Nagel

[metsgeek]

Jed Burke
"Dark Horse" Allen
"Ray of Light" Brown
Will Haggan
Mark Krosser
Bowie Castellon
Dave McBean
Johnny Swinson
Ahrend Nagel (Those 5 POY Awards happened in a 6 year period from '24-'29. That's quite a peak!)
Tobe Palmer

[spiffamous]

Miller
Haggan
Fargo
Nagel

[fhomess]

LF Will Miller - You've got him at SS - but he's a LF as I'm sure everyone who follows the thread knows. I almost wanted to not vote for him just because, but I can't bring myself to do it.
CF Dark Horse Allen - It's hard to appreciate his career since it's mostly 1900's, but he was dang good.
CF "Ray of Light" Brown - here's my nod to defense
3B "Frenchie" Fournier - just to keep him on the ballot

I'm a fan of 1916:
SP Mark Krosser - retired 1916
SP Dave McBean - retired 1916
SP Bowie Castellon - retired 1916
SP Ahrend "Professor" Nagel - IMO, his career as a whole isn't as impressive as one would expect it to be given how dominating he was at his peak.

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by fhomess

LF Will Miller - You've got him at SS - but he's a LF as I'm sure everyone who follows the thread knows.

crud... I copied Bennarivo's info & edited it so I don't have to type everything over everytime & forgot to change positions... thanks

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by fhomess

SP Ahrend "Professor" Nagel - IMO, his career as a whole isn't as impressive as one would expect it to be given how dominating he was at his peak.

He had a couple of really bad seasons early in his career (37-73 with an ERA well above 4.00 in his first 4 years), and he probably stayed around a season or two too long to get above 300 wins. I'm also wondering what kind of park factors he pitched in. Which park did the A's pitch in during that period, and was it geared towards hitters? You gotta wonder how he would have done if he hadn't torn his tricep in April of '31, too.

[rogmax11]

Burke - I dont believe there would be any question if he'd managed just 50 more hits.
Miller- Number one on the hit parade, heres your entry pass.
Nagel- An odd career arc, with an astounding run of POYs that cant be discounted, as well as all those victories adds up to inclusion, despite my nagging feeling that IRL no such career would be possible.
R.o. L. Brown- great defense, great nickname.
Seifried- I waffled a bit on this one, but on reflection I just cant exclude merely because of Federal League participation.
Haggan- hard to dispute 337 wins and a lot of Ks ( for his time ), but I dont sense a clear-cut dominance as I do with pitchers who compiled lesser stat totals.
Castellon- such as this chap.
McBean- and this one.
Krosser- and this one.
Fargo- A bit similar to Haggan in my mind, but a superior nickname makes it impossible to forego Fargo, ergo he goes.

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by metsgeek

He had a couple of really bad seasons early in his career (37-73 with an ERA well above 4.00 in his first 4 years), and he probably stayed around a season or two too long to get above 300 wins. I'm also wondering what kind of park factors he pitched in. Which park did the A's pitch in during that period, and was it geared towards hitters? You gotta wonder how he would have done if he hadn't torn his tricep in April of '31, too.

The A's played in Shibe Park, and it was pretty neutral, although it slightly favored HR's.

[jdw]

metsgeek wrote:

> I'm also wondering what kind of park factors
> he pitched in. Which park did the A's pitch
> in during that period, and was it geared
> towards hitters?

I guess this is my spot.

I believe they were hitters parks from my recollection on the impacts in Foxx's hitting and Grove's pitching.

The impact on the Proffessor was minor:

Career:
Home - 158-138 with a 3.74 ERA
Road - 169-134 with a 3.82 ERA

POY Seasons:
Home - 59-30 with a 3.00 ERA
Road - 71-21 with a 2.62 ERA

1924-29 (his general peak):
Home - 68-37 with a 3.04 ERA
Road - 81-30 with a 2.76 ERA

1922-32 (first good year to last good year)
Home - 105-61 with a 3.42 ERA
Road - 119-56 with a 3.21 ERA

In his best years he did generally pitch better on the road, but the home park didn't really kill his quality. His teams did win more games when he pitch on the road, however. Overall, he was probably a bit better pitcher at his peak and in the mear of his career than his overall numbers reflected (ERA rather than wins).

His peak/prime is colored by this season, which is quite remarkable:

1925
Home - 18-0 with a 1.87 ERA in 20 starts
Road - 13-6 with a 3.92 ERA in 19 starts.

Take that season out of the 1924-29 run, and you have:

1924-29 minus 1925:
Home - 50-37 with a 3.29 ERA
Road - 68-24 with a 2.54 ERA

Which is a rather large split.

Nagel won only one ERA Title - that 1925 season where was lights out at home and unremarkable on the road. The home park is likely what kept the Prof from winning a few more ERA Titles.


John

[jdw]

In alpha order:

Hitters:
Dark Horse Allen
Jed Burke
Patrick Seifried
Will Miller

Pitchers:
Bowie Castellon
Mark Krosser
Ahrend Nagel


John

[jdw]

Matt wrote:

> You'll see that some great and exciting
> players were added to the ballot this year! Ahrend
> Nagel was supposed to be added 2 yrs ago, but I
> overlooked him.

A small suggestion - if Ahrend goes in (which he likely will), count him as a member of the Class of 1940. Perhaps go back and edit a little not into the top of the 1940 thread noting it, and then where ever the HOF section of the website goes up, note it there as well.

It also does make for a really interesting "what if" question for the future. 1940 was the year after the "No One Got In" Class of 1939. In response to that, the voters tossed in four players with Turley, Ditty and Albertini all skinning in at 78.57%.

What if a dunker like 5 Time POY Ahrend Nagel was on the ballot?

Would it have made the others look like lesser candidates and push them off for another year?

Would another year of Ditty not getting in have made Mets try to hunt down jdw and go Marichal upside his head?




John

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by jdw

Would another year of Ditty not getting in have made Mets try to hunt down jdw and go Marichal upside his head?

Actually, it probably would have mollified me a bit. Nagel is my great-grandfather as well as Ditty.

[Carlton]

Miller
Allen
Fournier
Nagel
McBean
Archer

[jdw]

metsgeek wrote:

> Actually, it probably would have mollified
> me a bit. Nagel is my great-grandfather
> as well as Ditty.

I'm well aware that there is the Ditty Branch and the Nagel Branch of the Mets Family... along with probably a few branchs I've forgotten about. :P

But I'm heartborken... distraught... all out of sorts... that someone didn't give a little props for all that Nagel Research that was in response to a specific request. Does Stat Man only get commented on when he brings that data that you don't like? Here I bring the data that showed The Professor was hurt by his parks... and there's no love?




John

[rogmax11]

You do deserve the love, John, for adding such depth to these threads. I will speak with Matt about putting you on the payroll, and maybe we can wrangle a signing bonus. Heck, I bet he'll throw in a company vehicle!

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by jdw

Does Stat Man only get commented on when he brings that data that you don't like? Here I bring the data that showed The Professor was hurt by his parks... and there's no love?

Sorry for the neglect, Statman. I just didn't want to confuse you.

By the way, the other branches of the metsgeek tree are the KAHLES, DUNKELS, PUGLIESES, plus the VAJDAS, a HANHAM, and a SZABO-NAGY...all by marriage. I think that's it.