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08-05-2004, 04:45 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a funk....
Posts: 3,413
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VOTE: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1943
1936 Initial Ballot Results, 1937 Results, 1938 Results, 1939 Results, 1940 Results,
1941 Results, 1942 Results No one was elected to the RL HOF in 1943. Four new players were added to the ballot, and they should provide some interesting discussion. Never before has a .260 hitter posed such a valid shot at induction. All players who received at least 5% of votes on the last ballot were retained for this ballot. I also added players who became eligible for the ballot in 1943 (retired after 1937 season). All players not receiving 5% of votes on this ballot will be removed. Players who have been retired for 20 years fall off this ballot if not elected, but since the Veteran's Committee does not begin until 1946, I will do this: If a player is over the 20 year mark, he will be removed from the ballot once 1946 gets here and the VC is in effect. After that point, the regular 20-year rule will be used. Vote for as many or as few as you want. Max votes are 10. HOF Standard: 50 is considered an average HOF'er. 100 is max. Batters Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): AVG: .364 Hits: 4000 HR: 479 RBI: 1847 2B: 665 BB: 1643 R: 2004 SB: 921 Jed Burke, 2B, Last Season: 1921, HOF Standard: 59 2950 H, 265 2B, 18 HR, 1055 RBI, 1228 R, 600 K, 921 BB, 138 SB, .345 AVG, .851 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 3 Led League in: OBP 4, SLG1, OPS 2, Hits 3, BB 1 Career Top 10: NONE Patrick Seifried, 1B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 51 2720 H, 313 2B, 59 HR, 1195 RBI, 1348 R, 851 K, 1137 BB, 235 SB, .327 AVG, .867 OPS BOY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 5 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: 1 Led League in: OBP 3, SLG 1, OPS 2, RBI 2, Runs 2, BB 3 Career Top 10: NONE Paris "Frenchie" Fournier, 3B, Last Season: 1924, HOF Standard: 49 2730 H, 465 2B, 24 HR, 980 RBI, 1511 R, 354 K, 541 BB, 802 SB, .296 AVG, .772 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Hits 2, 2B 1, 3B 2, Runs 4, SB 7 Career Top 10: 3B, Runs, SB "Dark Horse" Allen, CF, Last Season: 1913, HOF Standard: 42 1795 H, 213 2B, 67 HR, 709 RBI, 907 R, 528 K, 871 BB, 13 SB, .325 AVG, .883 OPS BOY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: NONE Pennants: 3 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: 2 Led League in: OBP 2, SLG 4, OPS 4, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 1, Runs 3, BB 5 Career Top 10: NONE "Ray of Light" Brown, CF, Last Season: 1926, HOF Standard: 49 2526 H, 339 2B, 130 HR, 1155 RBI, 1314 R, 969 K, 828 BB, 167 SB, .300 AVG, .836 OPS BOY Award: 2 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 11 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: SLG 2, Hits 2, 3B 1, HR 2, Runs 1 Career Top 10: 3B NEW Torrin "Old King" Cole, RF, Last Season: 1937, HOF Standard: 40 2398 H, 437 2B, 174 HR, 1225 RBI, 1232 R, 532 K, 370 BB, 221 SB, .305 AVG, .811 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 1 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: Hits 1 Career Top 10: NONE Jerry "Slap" Hertzog, 2B, Last Season: 1937, HOF Standard: 61 2510 H, 395 2B, 122 HR, 1187 RBI, 1491 R, 899 K, 1509 BB, 41 SB, .314 AVG, .872 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: 1 Gold Gloves: 3 Pennants: 4 WS Victories: NONE Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: OBP 1, BB 7 Career Top 10: BB Cyrus Holloway, CF, Last Season: 1937, HOF Standard: 57 2447 H, 540 2B, 114 HR, 1108 RBI, 1299 R, 537 K, 1215 BB, 109 SB, .315 AVG, .863 OPS BOY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 2 Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: NONE Career Top 10: NONE Willard Schwarz, C, Last Season: 1937, HOF Standard: 41 2050 H, 359 2B, 340 HR, 1399 RBI, 1106 R, 614 K, 595 BB, 14 SB, .260 AVG, .760 OPS BOY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Gold Gloves: 8 Pennants: 6 WS Victories: 5 Batting Titles: NONE Led League in: SLG 1, HR 3, RBI 1, R 1 Career Top 10: HR |
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08-05-2004, 04:45 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a funk....
Posts: 3,413
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Pitchers
Current Career Leaders (Click to View Entire List): ERA: 2.10 W: 390 K: 2870 CG: 601 SHO: 95 Will Haggan, Last Season: 1922, HOF Standard: 58 337-299, 53.0%, 3.28 ERA, 5837.1 IP, 1597 BB, 2612 K, 601 CG, 45 SHO, 1.15 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 2 No-Hitters: 2 Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 2 Career Top 10: Wins, K's (#1), CG (#1) Mark Krosser, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57 266-181, 59.5%, 2.50 ERA, 4134.2 IP, 653 BB, 2131 K, 419 CG, 39 SHO, 1.10 WHIP POY Award: 2 ROY Award: 1 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 2, IP 1, K's 2, CG 2, SHO 1 Career Top 10: ERA, K's Bowie Castellon, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 57 262-146, 64.2%, 2.52 ERA, 3801 IP, 777 BB, 1298 K, 397 CG, 50 SHO, 1.08 WHIP POY Award: 3 ROY Award: 1 Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 2, WHIP 1, Wins 3, CG 2 Career Top 10: ERA, SHO Dave "The Shepard" McBean, Last Season: 1916, HOF Standard: 56 254-151, 62.7%, 2.52 ERA, 3747 IP, 611 BB, 1529 K, 386 CG, 55 SHO, 1.06 WHIP POY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: Wins 3, IP 1, K's 1, CG 3, SHO 1 Career Top 10: ERA, SHO "Nasty Ned" Fargo, Last Season: 1933, HOF Standard: 46 322-261, 55.2%, 3.99 ERA, 5502 IP, 1073 BB, 1482 K, 415 CG, 31 SHO, 1.24 WHIP POY Award: 1 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 1 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: Wins 1, Losses 1, IP 5, CG 2 Career Top 10: Wins "Evil" Gary Archer, Last Season: 1914, HOF Standard: 45 237-188, 55.8%, 2.86 ERA, 3922.1 IP, 984 BB, 1631 K, 405 CG, 47 SHO, 1.09 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: 3 Led League in: WHIP 2, CG 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: NONE Johnny Swinson, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 44 256-167, 60.5%, 3.23 ERA, 3900.2 IP, 729 BB, 1159 K, 348 CG, 33 SHO, 1.17 WHIP POY Award: 3 ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 2 WS Victories: 1 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: ERA 3, WHIP 1, Wins 3, IP 2, CG 1, SHO 1 Career Top 10: NONE Tobe Palmer, Last Season: 1930, HOF Standard: 41 266-185, 59.0%, 3.48 ERA, 4316 IP, 1410 BB, 1763 K, 395 CG, 37 SHO, 1.35 WHIP POY Award: NONE ROY Award: NONE Pennants: 6 WS Victories: 5 No-Hitters: NONE Led League in: IP 1, K 1 Career Top 10: NONE |
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08-05-2004, 05:55 PM
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#4 (permalink) |
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All Star Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy
Posts: 1,307
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Dark Horse
that is all
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Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten. |
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08-05-2004, 08:15 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere where I don't know where I am
Posts: 3,228
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In no particular order,
Patrick Seifried "Frenchie" Fournier "Dark Horse" Allen "Ray of Light" Brown Will Haggan Bowie Castellon "Shephard" McBean Willard Schwarz---he was a big reason the homerun is what it is, forget his average |
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08-05-2004, 08:51 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 5,411
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Burke
Seifried Allen Brown Holloway Schwarz (I was wavering a bit on him, but the 8 Gold Gloves put him over) Haggan McBean Castellon Palmer
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Commissioner - PBRL Time Warp Baseball - Boston Red Sox The Baseball Chronicle - Cleveland Spiders |
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08-05-2004, 09:20 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Major Leagues
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 466
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haggan
fargo
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GM - TWB Expos |
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08-05-2004, 10:43 PM
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#9 (permalink) |
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All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 892
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Burke
Seifried Haggan Krosser Castellon Fargo
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Time Warp - NY Giants (1946-57) NL Champs 1951, 1952; NY Mets (1962- ) Asahi2 - NY Mets 1977 Champs PBRL - Bkn Dodgers 1922 Champs NTBL - Clev. Indians - 1921, 1922 Champs (League closed) GDBA - Phil. Athletics - 1946 Champs (League closed) MLB Replay - Det. Tigers - 1914 Champs (League closed) |
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08-06-2004, 01:01 AM
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#10 (permalink) |
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Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 192
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Burke
Seifried Schwarz Haggan Krosser Castellon Fargo
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Be still Taggert...My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives. Mexico City Matadores - tMBU - Vice-Commissioner    
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08-06-2004, 10:21 AM
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a funk....
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Quote:
 But, he did hold that title for a lot of years... He should, however, remain the all-time CG leader forever....
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 List of Ancestors in Excel APLB Chicago Cubs: 1877, 1880, 1885, 1886 Champs Pro-Circuit Buffalo Merchants: 1895 Champs Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise |
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08-06-2004, 02:39 PM
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#15 (permalink) |
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All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,933
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Dark Horse Allen
Jerry "Slap" Hertzog "Frenchie" Fournier "Ray of Light" Brown Willard Schwarz Mark Krosser Bowie Castellon Dave McBean
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The Baseball Saga - My fictorical replay dynasty thread (HTML) PBRL - New York Yankees - 1921, 1943, 1944, 1946 American League Champs - 1919, 1923, 1924, 1945, 1949 PBRL Champs TWB - Cleveland Indians - 1974, 1977, 1982 AL East Champs - 1965, 1981 TWB Champs You Pick Tourney - Champions (1940 New York Yankees) ________________________________________________ Football sim anyone? Signup for Goal Line Blitz |
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08-06-2004, 04:40 PM
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#16 (permalink) |
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All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,089
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lgkeeper wrote:
> Haggan (how can the all-time leader in Ks > and CGs not be in?) Because he wasn't a great pitcher. On the K's, here's his leader board action: K's 1903 - 142 - 5th 1904 - 170 - 4th 1906 - 162 - 4th 1907 - 175 - 3rd 1908 - 147 - 8th 1910 - 144 - 10th 1912 - 148 - 3rd 1913 - 152 - 7th 1914 - 127 - 7th 1915 - 119 - 10th 1916 - 123 - 8th 1917 - 129 - 5th 1918 - 134 - 3rd 1919 - 120 - 6th 1920 - 128 - 6th The former "All-Time Strike Out King" never led the league in K's for a season. Just to be clear: NEVER.  It's worse than that. He never was even #2. A trio of 3rd place finishes, and then the advantage of pitching a long, long, long, long time. In a league were almost all of the other "great" pitchers tend to go by the age of 40, Haggan bagged 432 K's, 115 CG's, and and 67 wins from the age of 40 on. It's pretty much on of the strange quirks of TWB/OOTP history. He had a medioce year in 1916 at 38, and most Great Pitchers would have then fallen off the cliff. Haggan came back with probably the second best two year run of his career at the age of 39-40. He then had another poor year at the age of 41, yet his offense score so many runs for him that he won 19 games and his team invited him back for another season, which he actually pitched above average in (and the offense rewarded him with a boatload of wins). Finally he fell apart the next year. On him not being a great player, here's a post from an earlier thread: ----------------- jdw Posted on 07-09-2004, 11:18 AM Vote: Time Warp HOF Ballot 1940 > 3.) Haggan got my vote on previous ballots--its hard > to ignore 337 wins--but I always felt a little queasy > looking at the loss totals. I was swayed, I suppose, > by the sheer length and enormity of his career, and > less by its overall quality. I chose not to include him > in my 10 picks this time mostly because there was a > plethora of superior pitchers to select from. I can see > the Ryan similarity in terms of longevity--which is > surely admirable in itself--but not in regards to star > quality. I expect Haggan will make it into the Hall > certainly, he's just not a shoo-in merely because he > didnt suffer injury or attrition as did so many others. I've never cared for the Ryan similarity because it's not really true - Haggan isn't as good as Ryan. And that comes from someone who's not the biggest Ryan fan around - I think Bert Blyleven was a better pitcher over his career than Ryan. On Haggan vs. Ryan: Haggan Top 10 ERA: 1911 - 2.84 - 8th 1912 - 2.55 - 7th 1918 - 2.82 - 6th Ryan Top 10 ERA: 1972 - 2.28 - 7th 1973 - 2.87 - 4th 1974 - 2.89 - 7th 1977 - 2.77 - 3rd 1981 - 1.69 - 1st 1983 - 2.98 - 7th 1987 - 2.76 - 1st 1991 - 2.91 - 5th While I would point out that Ryan's two #1s were in the Astro Dome, he was a 7-4-7-3-5 in years outside of the Dome. That is better than Hagan. We do have Baseball Reference's Adjusted ERA+, which does adjust for parks, that can give us an idea of how good Ryan was even in the Dome: Ryan ERA+ 1972 - 128 1973 - 124 1974 - 119 1975 - 103 1976 - 100 1977 - 141 1978 - 98 1979 - 114 1980 - 98 1981 - 194 1982 - 105 1983 - 115 1984 - 110 1985 - 91 1986 - 108 1987 - 142 1988 - 94 1989 - 124 1990 - 114 1991 - 138 Dome or not, he was an awfully good pitcher in 1981 amd 1987. Better ERA+ that any other years in his careers, which included those five other Top 10 ERA seasons. I think we can safely say he would have been a Top 10 ERA man in those two seasons in a "normal" park. We don't have park adjustments (for runs) for Haggan's parks, but here are his straight ERA+ numbers: Haggan ERA+ 1902 - 77 1903 - 79 1904 - 111 1905 - 101 1906 - 96 1907 - 107 1908 - 87 1909 - 113 1910 - 108 1911 - 124 1912 - 119 1913 - 110 1914 - 111 1915 - 109 1916 - 96 1917 - 117 1918 - 127 1919 - 92 1920 - 113 I hate to say it, but they aren't especially "good". Lots of "above average", with a couple of 120+ "good" years. Now it's possible that the Boston parks he pitched in are strong hitters parks with the adjustments that Matt uses. I don't know. But on the surface, Haggan's ERA's are pretty wretched for *HOF* level. Tommy John has the following "qualifying" seasons of 120+ ERA+: 120 - 1966 125 - 1967 154 - 1968 138 - 1977 138 - 1979 137 - 1981 He supported those with seasons of 119, 119, 116 and 114... and another six over 100. And I'm wouldn't argue for a Tommy John level pitcher to go in the HOF this early when we've got some truly great players to put in first. ----------------- I just don't think he was all that great. I do buy the notion that someone who has a whole lotta "good" is worthy of going in. Haggan didn't really do that. John |
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08-06-2004, 07:25 PM
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#18 (permalink) | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a funk....
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Quote:
Average 105 Doubles 123 Triples 108 HR 97 Avg vs R 103 HR vs R 99 Avg vs L 108 HR vs L 94 From 1901-11, Boston played in Huntington Avenue Grounds: Average 101 Doubles 99 Triples 122 HR 143
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List of Ancestors in Excel APLB Chicago Cubs: 1877, 1880, 1885, 1886 Champs Pro-Circuit Buffalo Merchants: 1895 Champs Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise |
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08-10-2004, 01:48 PM
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#20 (permalink) |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a funk....
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Update!
I'll give this about 1 more day because I'm still working on updating the league for 1943... A lot of work on the guys going off to war, plus league settings are tougher with guys at war...
However, it looks like a lot of players are on the cusp of induction & their support is strengthening: Code:
Bowie Castellon 76.92% Patrick Seifried 69.23% Will Haggan 69.23% Mark Krosser 69.23% Ray Brown 61.54% Jed Burke 53.85% Dark Horse Allen 53.85% Willard Schwarz 53.85% Dave McBean 53.85% Ned Fargo 46.15% Slap Hertzog 30.77% Frenchie Fournier 23.08% Cyrus Holloway 7.69% Evil Archer 7.69% Tobe Palmer 7.69% Torrin Cole 0.00% Johnny Swinson 0.00%
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List of Ancestors in Excel APLB Chicago Cubs: 1877, 1880, 1885, 1886 Champs Pro-Circuit Buffalo Merchants: 1895 Champs Set in Stone... Players Remain with Original Franchise |
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