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Old 05-08-2007, 03:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Nearly Realistic US State Ethnic Ratios

FILE STATUS: Good enough for sharing. Recommend you read the posts below for information on the details. Also, advise you to back-up the two files you will be replacing with these. To use, rename them to nations.txt and ethnicities.txt respectively inside your database folder.

http://calendrae.com/images/sagitta-ethnicities.txt and http://calendrae.com/images/sagitta-nations.txt

I've been playing with the nations.txt file for a few days now, and have what I think is a lot more realistic set-up for anyone who wants to play state-based leagues or (as is my intention eventually) feeders based on individual states as opposed to a generic national situation.

The reason behind this is that when using the every state as a nation file I grabbed off the boards here, every state was set up to be ethnically identical.

This becomes glaringly apparent when you play a league based in, say, Maine (which is about as whitebread as you're going to get) compared to a DC metro league.

In the case of Maine, you get a disproportionate number of Hispanics and blacks popping up, no French-Canadians, and other weirdness that throws off the realism factor.

This also becomes apparent when you take a state like Texas, Hawaii, or South Carolina where there is a majority-minority status and you see an abnormal number of Caucasians showing up or a slew of minorities who simply don't live in the state you're working on.

So I jumped on the Census website and began editing.

I made every state reflect (roughly) the proper ethnic breakdown that that state has so that when the players show up, its reflected as such. The only drawback is I need a really good first-name file to Americanize the names so that they aren't foreign (fewer Jacques and Gunters, more Jacks and Georges!).

As it stands now though, the files look about complete. I'm just generating some samples to see if I can catch any mistakes, and if all looks well, I'll post it sometime later tonight or tomorrow.
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Last edited by Sagitta; 05-12-2007 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Update: Just ran a sample, found two glaring errors (one of which is fixed).

Texas was being generated with an abnormal number of Italians (it shouldn't have ANY) and no Hispanics. Turned out the file had a repeat it shouldn't of, fixed it there and in other errored states.

Also note that there is still a too-high number of Caucasions showing up in DC (it should be close to 57%, its more like 20% for me), trying to figure out what number to zap to fix that. Suspect reducing number of 'generic Americans' should do the trick.
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Last edited by Sagitta; 05-08-2007 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Still having wildly innacurate results - come to realize the last four settings (ethnicity%1-4) in the nations.txt file are basically worthless (or so it seems) as creating a fictional nation and making it all African but adding German and British ethnic groups generates White players, overriding the ethnic percentages specified in the last half of the file!

Will play with the numbers with my fictional nation to see if I can figure out why this happens and a workaround.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Realized that the only way to get around this that I can see is to create a new ethnic category. Replaced 'US Historic' with 'US African American'.

Need to go back in now and change all 50 states + DC to reflect the new category. YIKES!

Don't expect this file posted until late this week if not a tad longer, as I have to go back and do some major editing now as this throws everything off.

EDIT: New gameplan, treat ethnicities as follows: "Black", "Hispanic","Whites and Asians broken down via ethnic group", and "Generic Americans". This means that if a state has very few blacks or hispanics, I'll sadly have to not include them and what few get generated will be through the generic American numbers. This sounds callous until you realize a lot of states have these groups in such small amounts ( less than 2% ) that the effect will be negligible.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Sagitta, thank you VERY much for attempting this. I hope it turns out as you like. A great contribution, I'll be looking forward to it.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
Texas was being generated with an abnormal number of Italians (it shouldn't have ANY) and no Hispanics. Turned out the file had a repeat it shouldn't of, fixed it there and in other errored states.
When did they quit letting us Italians move to Texas?
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrycapo View Post
When did they quit letting us Italians move to Texas?
Since OOTP only allows for four ethnicities.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to use one of them for African Americans, which means in most states I'm going to be limited in my options.

I already have a good idea how I'll pull this off - I'm going to modify the first name files to make all the foreign ethnicities I need (polish, italian, etc...) have Americanized first names.

Hopefully I can pull it off so it'll work for me.
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Old 05-10-2007, 01:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
Since OOTP only allows for four ethnicities.
This is another of those OOTP quirks. The nations.csv and the world.dat files both have space for 5 ethnicities per country, yet nations.txt only has four. The nation editor in game has 5 IIRC.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsoxford View Post
This is another of those OOTP quirks. The nations.csv and the world.dat files both have space for 5 ethnicities per country, yet nations.txt only has four. The nation editor in game has 5 IIRC.
I haven't mucked with the csv or dat files - I'll have to take a peek at them later.

Also, if I get really ambitious, I just realized that it is entirely within the realm of possibility to make semi-realistic ethnic breakdown by state... by decade. The Census Bureau has all the information online if you dig deep enough.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for your efforts Sag!
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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OK, its done.

The Good: It breaks down almost as to be expected. All 50 states + Hawaii will, in FaceGen, generate roughly the correct racial diversity.

Surnames are also pretty spot-on. Expect a lot of Scandinavians in states like ND, SD, Italians in the NY/NJ area, British/Irish down south, and a metric ton of Germans all over the place. I like how it looks, almost... which leads into...

The Bad: First names are tied to the ethnicity of the surnames. This tends to make things look awkward as you have a lot of names not common in the US showing up. This can be fixed by modifying the names.txt file I'm sure, but I'll leave that project up to someone else unless I get bored.

Also, I had to muck with the Ethnicities.txt file. I made ethnic groups outside the US much more generic (ie, no African Germans, Asian Brits, etc) as those diversities tied directly into the work I did for the state files. This produced oddball stuff like having (for example) an Asian named Heinrich Aachen popping up in Kansas. Its bad enough he's named Heinrich, having him look like he came over from Japan just made things just too weird.

I also eliminated the US (Historical) and made it US (African American). In truth I simply changed the racial line in this to 100% Black and used this for any states with blacks as a major ethnic group.

My next goal is to see if I can generate a MLB file and add high school feeders in the proper ratios so that when the players make their way up through to the majors they will be in the correct ratios.

I'll edit the first post, and I'd love feedback on any errors that are spotted (other than the first name issue) so that I can fix them.

Also, thanks of course to the guy who made the original 'All 50 States as Nations' file that I altered for this.

I hope everyone interested finds a good use for this.
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Oh... one other thing (because I know it'll be asked)...

I edited the US (Modern) (as opposed to individual state) setting to reflect the Caucasion/Asian/Not-black-or-Hispanic racial ratios. If you download this file, and try running a straight US game, you won't find and Hispanics or Blacks being generated. This was done on purpose as it interferes with the individual states as most states have 50-75% of their players pulled from this setting. If the state already has a line for blacks and Hispanic in it (as most do), this results in too-high a ratio generated for them.

To fix this if you find it not to your taste, find the line reading

Quote:
0,U.S. (Modern),0,75,10,915,0,
and change the first and last items from 0 to whatever number you wish that works for you. Just keep in mind that the first 0 is % of blacks, and the last is % of Hispanics, and that all 5 entries should equal 1000.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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First, thank you for your efforts! It sounds exactly like what I need.
Second, I'm going to go about this backwards and ask my question before I dl. Does the new nations file eliminate all non-US nationalities? That is, will my CA league still have people from Mexico (as opposed to Mexican ancestry), or do the states replace other nations?
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Um, nevermind. It took me longer to type that post than it did to check the answer myself. Thanks!!
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This is a really cool project. Great work!
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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This is a really cool project. Great work!
I just wish that OOTP allowed for more ethnic groups and ethnic groups per nation. If they were unlimited or at least allowed for more entries, the US Census breaks things down tremendously.

You could feasibly have (for example) Rhode Island break down to Irish 19% / English 18% / French 11%/ Portugese 9% / Hispanic 11% / Black 6%. (This is the data readily available via the census bureau - I bet if I dug deeper I could break things down even more). It actually wasn't difficult to add, either, it was just time consuming. As you can see, that would account for nearly 100% of the state which would cover things nicely.

As it is, I had to sacrifice some minor ethnic groups for the addition of blacks and Hispanics in some states (I used 3% as the cut off for inclusion) to avoid making things too Caucasion overall.
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The Bad: First names are tied to the ethnicity of the surnames. This tends to make things look awkward as you have a lot of names not common in the US showing up. This can be fixed by modifying the names.txt file I'm sure, but I'll leave that project up to someone else unless I get bored.
I just had a thought. Couldn't you just do a csv edit and add American names to replace the foreign names by copying and pasting the first names and filling in the nation code. This way you would get all American first names with ethnic last names.

Hope this makes sense.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
I just wish that OOTP allowed for more ethnic groups and ethnic groups per nation. If they were unlimited or at least allowed for more entries, the US Census breaks things down tremendously.

You could feasibly have (for example) Rhode Island break down to Irish 19% / English 18% / French 11%/ Portugese 9% / Hispanic 11% / Black 6%. (This is the data readily available via the census bureau - I bet if I dug deeper I could break things down even more). It actually wasn't difficult to add, either, it was just time consuming. As you can see, that would account for nearly 100% of the state which would cover things nicely.

As it is, I had to sacrifice some minor ethnic groups for the addition of blacks and Hispanics in some states (I used 3% as the cut off for inclusion) to avoid making things too Caucasion overall.
This is one of these stranged 'fixed-length' quirks (in my view) in the database structure. Every nation has the space for five ethnicities and their percentages, and in the standard nations.txt file less than half the nations have a second ethnicity and under 20 have a third one. None of the nations have a fourth or fifth ethnicity.

The logical solution would be to have a count field first specifying how many ethnicities pairings were to follow. It's how the nations and their cities are added to the database. Currently there are 8800 bytes of database assigned to ethnicities where as using a variable length count of them would lower it to 3376 (I know that's only a 5.5Kb saving and in the scale of world.dat that is hardly anything - the 700+Kb of blank nothing per league in world.dat would make a bigger saving if it wasn't there - it probably has a use but I've tried all different types of leagues and can't get it to be filled with anything), but it would allow for more expandability.

That's just my though, it's not my place to say that the structure is wrong as I haven't been developing it since v1.
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Old 05-22-2007, 03:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Just a friendly bump to see if anyone has used these and if so, what their opinions are?
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Just another bump to see if anyone has used/uses this and what their opinions are on it...
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