Can the world_default file be edited?

[joefromchicago]

I tried making edits in the world_default.xml file -- in fact, I spent what seemed like the better part of the July 4 weekend trying to make changes in the .xml file and the in-game nation editor, all with no success. Others, however, say that changes in the .xml file can be made, and that changes in the nation editor can be saved. Don't tell me that such changes can theoretically be made. I don't want to know if you should be able to make those changes, I want to know if you can make those changes. I'd like to hear from people who have actually tried to change the .xml file or the settings in the nation editor if they have been successful or not, and, if they have, how did they do it.

[ukhotstove]

I've always liked OOTP simply because you can come on here ask a question and it will be answered, sometimes you even get the people behind the game answering your questions. I have to say though this time I find it very disappointing that in what is a big change in fact a massive change for fictional players, a change from OOTP11 and txt files to OOTP12 and xml files hasn't been talked about apart from Muzamba's posts.

Despite numerous posts and questions from numerous people from the boards questions still go unanswered, I'd even have expected Markus who I take was the one who decided to change from txt to xml would have at least come in with a couple of questions. Maybe next time I'll buy iOOTP or give a donation to the paypal account it seems these get alot of time devoted to them

Being serious though I hope you get your question answered because until I get questions like this answered then I'm afraid I'll be sticking with 11, as I don't trust 12 with what I want to change within the files.

[joefromchicago]

I completely agree.

[reds1]

For what it's worth, I made edits to the world_default file to add my fictional country and associated cities and ethnicities by following Muzamba's tutorial and got it to work. I made the edits directly in notepad.

However, it sounds as though you would like to edit existing information; if so, then I couldn't comment on that. Hopefully, someone else can.

[tylertoo]

Originally Posted by reds1

For what it's worth, I made edits to the world_default file to add my fictional country and associated cities and ethnicities by following Muzamba's tutorial and got it to work. I made the edits directly in notepad.

However, it sounds as though you would like to edit existing information; if so, then I couldn't comment on that. Hopefully, someone else can.

Reds, would you be able to post your edited .xml file here? I'd love to see how you did it.

[joefromchicago]

I'd like to see that too.

[reds1]

Here's some screen grabs. I admittedly don't have alot of cities and I've kept the populations simple. I made sure that my city populations agreed with the state and nation populations.

I added my info after the Falkland Islands & started at ID numbers well above those already used.

[tylertoo]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I tried making edits in the world_default.xml file -- in fact, I spent what seemed like the better part of the July 4 weekend trying to make changes in the .xml file and the in-game nation editor, all with no success. Others, however, say that changes in the .xml file can be made, and that changes in the nation editor can be saved. Don't tell me that such changes can theoretically be made. I don't want to know if you should be able to make those changes, I want to know if you can make those changes. I'd like to hear from people who have actually tried to change the .xml file or the settings in the nation editor if they have been successful or not, and, if they have, how did they do it.

Joe, when you say "all with no success", did you mean that the changes crashed the game, or the changes didn't stick, or something else?

I have seen reference, I believe, in another thread to changes in the .xml not sticking, that it reverts back to the original.

Also, I have seen recommendations to use Notepad++ for the editing (freeware), have you tried this?

[tylertoo]

Originally Posted by reds1

Here's some screen grabs.

Thanks, these are very helpful.

Are the ethnicity IDs referencing fictional ethnicities?

[Chicagofan76]

Reds1 what was the many lines for ethnicity for? thought in 11 there were only 4 options?

[Markmeister]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Reds1 what was the many lines for ethnicity for? thought in 11 there were only 4 options?

There were, but it appears that now you can use all 40 [id# 0 to 39] If you look at the world default.xml that ships with the game, the United States uses 36 of the ethnicities.

I was able to verify that the upper id# of 39 is probably hard coded. I tried adding ethnicity 40 to the XML file but OOTP wouldn't recognize it when I looked at the nation editor.

[reds1]

Originally Posted by tylertoo

Thanks, these are very helpful.

Are the ethnicity IDs referencing fictional ethnicities?

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Reds1 what was the many lines for ethnicity for? thought in 11 there were only 4 options?

The ethnicity IDs reference actual ethnicities listed in the default file as Markmeister mentions. I've attached a screenshot of the list.

I was going to mention that I was disappointed that a British ethnicity was not included this time around, but I just noticed that it's listed as #20. D'oh!

That's OK - I've only set up a test league thus far and I'm still tweaking things.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by tylertoo

Joe, when you say "all with no success", did you mean that the changes crashed the game, or the changes didn't stick, or something else?

Both. It either crashed the game or else the changes wouldn't stick.

Originally Posted by tylertoo

Also, I have seen recommendations to use Notepad++ for the editing (freeware), have you tried this?

No, I've been using WordPad.

[Muzamba]

Sorry I haven't been available to offer feedback for a while.

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I tried making edits in the world_default.xml file -- in fact, I spent what seemed like the better part of the July 4 weekend trying to make changes in the .xml file and the in-game nation editor, all with no success. Others, however, say that changes in the .xml file can be made, and that changes in the nation editor can be saved. Don't tell me that such changes can theoretically be made. I don't want to know if you should be able to make those changes, I want to know if you can make those changes. I'd like to hear from people who have actually tried to change the .xml file or the settings in the nation editor if they have been successful or not, and, if they have, how did they do it.

Please keep in mind that you still can't import changes to the xml file into a game that you have already started. Any edits you make will only take effect when you start a new game. Hopefully, that will at least provide an explanation as to why the re-imported data isn't sticking. If you start a new league after re-importing the xml db and it still causes problems, let me know so I can log it as a bug. (I was sincerely hoping that the new system would allow us to make changes to a saved game, but that apparently isn't the case. )

Originally Posted by Markmeister

There were, but it appears that now you can use all 40 [id# 0 to 39] If you look at the world default.xml that ships with the game, the United States uses 36 of the ethnicities.

I was able to verify that the upper id# of 39 is probably hard coded. I tried adding ethnicity 40 to the XML file but OOTP wouldn't recognize it when I looked at the nation editor.

This is correct. You can indeed now have up to 40 ethnicities for each nation. Unfortunately, there is still a hardcoded limit to the number of ethnicities you can have in the game. (However, as has been the case for years, you can always change any of the 40 ethnicities to something different if you want.) The 40-ethnicity limit is yet another thing I'm going to continue to press Markus and Andreas to change. Granted, it's not practical to expect that every conceivable language will eventually be represented in OOTP, but I believe we need at least twice the current limit to have a somewhat realistic array of namesets. (I'm also pushing for the ability to edit ethnicities at the state and maybe even the city level in the future.)

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

I've always liked OOTP simply because you can come on here ask a question and it will be answered, sometimes you even get the people behind the game answering your questions. I have to say though this time I find it very disappointing that in what is a big change in fact a massive change for fictional players, a change from OOTP11 and txt files to OOTP12 and xml files hasn't been talked about apart from Muzamba's posts.

Despite numerous posts and questions from numerous people from the boards questions still go unanswered, I'd even have expected Markus who I take was the one who decided to change from txt to xml would have at least come in with a couple of questions. Maybe next time I'll buy iOOTP or give a donation to the paypal account it seems these get alot of time devoted to them

Being serious though I hope you get your question answered because until I get questions like this answered then I'm afraid I'll be sticking with 11, as I don't trust 12 with what I want to change within the files.

I must admit that I'm also troubled by the fact that I seem to be the only person with any inside knowledge about the new db system that has even attempted to provide any answers. When it comes to the db, I've basically gotten nothing but radio silence from M&A since the game was released. I guess the basics are working just enough that it's not really seen as a high priority at the moment, at least compared to some other issues.

I think the overall problem is that despite the decision being made to implement the new system as early as last fall, it really didn't get much attention until late in the beta process. Andreas, to his credit, pushed for and was given the green light to code the new db, but I kind of get the impression Markus was never totally convinced that any sort of update to the system was really even necessary.

I personally consider myself to be the biggest non-development team advocate for a comprehensive redesign of the db (although I didn't specifically push for the conversion to xml). The problem is that most users don't seem to care that much or at least don't publicly express their desire that the db be updated, so Markus doesn't seem to see it as a major area of concern.

However, the purpose of this rant isn't to say anything disparaging about Markus. I just want to encourage those for whom it IS a priority to be vocal about it and let your feelings be known. I have a very comprehensive proposal on the table to revamp the entire OOTP db for v13 that will make the game's output much more realistic and should allow for more editing options by the user, but it's probably going to require strong support from the OOTP community to get Markus' attention.

So if you want to see all the issues that have been discussed in this thread addressed soon, please take every opportunity you can to mention how important this is to you.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

Sorry I haven't been available to offer feedback for a while.



Please keep in mind that you still can't import changes to the xml file into a game that you have already started. Any edits you make will only take effect when you start a new game. Hopefully, that will at least provide an explanation as to why the re-imported data isn't sticking. If you start a new league after re-importing the xml db and it still causes problems, let me know so I can log it as a bug. (I was sincerely hoping that the new system would allow us to make changes to a saved game, but that apparently isn't the case. )

Does this include a converted game from 11 to 12?

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Reds1 what was the many lines for ethnicity for? thought in 11 there were only 4 options?

Those "ethnicities" are the languages used in creating names. Thus the "lid" (landgauge ID). They are poorly named as ethnicities. And there are 40 languages.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

So if you want to see all the issues that have been discussed in this thread addressed soon, please take every opportunity you can to mention how important this is to you.

Has there been any official comment on the issue of US ethnicities being hard-coded?

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

Please keep in mind that you still can't import changes to the xml file into a game that you have already started. Any edits you make will only take effect when you start a new game. Hopefully, that will at least provide an explanation as to why the re-imported data isn't sticking.

Nope, that doesn't help at all. I make changes to the .xml file and then start a new game. The game would either crash on start-up, tell me that I had made some unfixable errors in the .xml file, or else the changes that I made wouldn't stick. I never tried to change the .xml file and apply those changes to a game already in progress.

Originally Posted by Muzamba

If you start a new league after re-importing the xml db and it still causes problems, let me know so I can log it as a bug. (I was sincerely hoping that the new system would allow us to make changes to a saved game, but that apparently isn't the case. )

Consider yourself notified.

Originally Posted by Muzamba

This is correct. You can indeed now have up to 40 ethnicities for each nation. Unfortunately, there is still a hardcoded limit to the number of ethnicities you can have in the game. (However, as has been the case for years, you can always change any of the 40 ethnicities to something different if you want.) The 40-ethnicity limit is yet another thing I'm going to continue to press Markus and Andreas to change. Granted, it's not practical to expect that every conceivable language will eventually be represented in OOTP, but I believe we need at least twice the current limit to have a somewhat realistic array of namesets. (I'm also pushing for the ability to edit ethnicities at the state and maybe even the city level in the future.)

Actually, the game right now only uses 38 ethnicities (or, more accurately, language id's). Ethnicities 33 (French Canadian) and 39 (American Historical) aren't used at all by the game. And since the game's databases can't be changed (or can they? we may never know), those ethnicities never get used.

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I personally consider myself to be the biggest non-development team advocate for a comprehensive redesign of the db (although I didn't specifically push for the conversion to xml). The problem is that most users don't seem to care that much or at least don't publicly express their desire that the db be updated, so Markus doesn't seem to see it as a major area of concern.

For me, the strongest selling point for OOTP is its ease of customization. I never play historical leagues -- there are plenty of baseball simulations on the market that can do that. I play only fictional leagues, because that gives me the opportunity to customize the game according to the way I like it. I put a lot of work into making schedules and logos, and I've added about 300 or so names to the American Historical - 39 db because I play a lot of reserve-era games and don't want to deal with a bunch of Justins and Jasons. It's aggravating, then, that 2011 demographics are being imposed on everyone for every era, especially when demographics were easily customizable in previous versions of the game.

Originally Posted by Muzamba

So if you want to see all the issues that have been discussed in this thread addressed soon, please take every opportunity you can to mention how important this is to you.

I'm doing my bit.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by reds1

Here's some screen grabs. I admittedly don't have alot of cities and I've kept the populations simple. I made sure that my city populations agreed with the state and nation populations.

I added my info after the Falkland Islands & started at ID numbers well above those already used.

If you've been successful in adding to the .xml file, then the problem may simply be in trying to alter the existing data for the nations already in the game. Looking at the in-game nation editor, it seems clear that the language id options for each nation are hard-coded. Algeria, for instance, has only one slot available for a language id. So, if you tried to go into the .xml file and give Algeria two language id's, you'd either get an error message or the game would crash. I've found, however, that you can't even change the language id's that are already there. I tried to change the US language id set from 36 different languages to just one -- US Historical 39. That didn't work either.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

If you've been successful in adding to the .xml file, then the problem may simply be in trying to alter the existing data for the nations already in the game. Looking at the in-game nation editor, it seems clear that the language id options for each nation are hard-coded. Algeria, for instance, has only one slot available for a language id. So, if you tried to go into the .xml file and give Algeria two language id's, you'd either get an error message or the game would crash. I've found, however, that you can't even change the language id's that are already there. I tried to change the US language id set from 36 different languages to just one -- US Historical 39. That didn't work either.

If this is true then there is effectively no point in the XML file being editable.