Spritze/Garlon DB - Page 13

Spritze · 11-02-2008, 01:14 PM

Yeah I noticed that a while ago. All fixed for the next release, shortly after the new Lahman comes out.

thehef · 11-03-2008, 04:09 AM

Back to park factors... I totally understand that it's a personal preference thing, but I just wanna make sure that I have the right info before I decide which way to go.

For a historical league using the Mod Garlon/Spritze neutralized db, starting in 1901 and keeping players on thier same teams as in RL (moving/trading when necessary), if I want realistic stats, which - factors or no factors - is the way to go w this db?

Going back to the very first post in this thread:

"This park-neutral [db] puts all players on an equal footing... so that players who played... in Dodger Stadium [and] have poor hitting stats because that is perhaps the worst hitter's park... will benefit..., while players who played in Coors Field have their statistics reduced. Willie Davis who played for the Dodgers 1960-1979 had a career .279 BA, after conversion he goes to .301. This is the primary advantage this DB will provide - better representation of a player's abilities."

Based upon the above, I'm thinking that - given what I'm doing, which will have Davis on LA for much of his career - I'd want to keep park factors in play in order to NOT have Davis' avg be significantly higher than in RL. By the same token, I'm assuming Vinny Castillo's HR numbers are adjusted lower in the db, but should reach RL levels if he plays (in the sim) at Coors field and park factors are used.

Correct?

Thanks in advance.

Spritze · 11-03-2008, 01:48 PM

Correct.

SteveP · 11-10-2008, 07:38 PM

I have tried starting a 1960 league with this, but the results are confusing. If I copy the ODB file (that OOTP included in the stats folder) over to this DB, and use it to launch a game, the resulting league has fewer than 600 total players. Figured that wasn't right, so deleted the ODB file and launched using the master file. That time I got over 1800 players (

), but about 25% of them were on the wrong team. Not only that but the real life stats for these players showed them as playing on the wrong team(s) for most their careers.

I saw in this thread that you talked about assigning players to a specific team, but I thought that was more about rookies, not entire careers. Have I done something wrong, or misinterpreted how this DB is to be used?

mgom27 · 11-10-2008, 08:44 PM

How about import the Minor League Database into it that's at baseball1.com?

Spritze · 11-10-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

I have tried starting a 1960 league with this, but the results are confusing. If I copy the ODB file (that OOTP included in the stats folder) over to this DB, and use it to launch a game, the resulting league has fewer than 600 total players. Figured that wasn't right, so deleted the ODB file and launched using the master file. That time I got over 1800 players (

), but about 25% of them were on the wrong team. Not only that but the real life stats for these players showed them as playing on the wrong team(s) for most their careers.

I saw in this thread that you talked about assigning players to a specific team, but I thought that was more about rookies, not entire careers. Have I done something wrong, or misinterpreted how this DB is to be used?

In this db everyones first year is with the team they are most associated with. After that the game goes where the game goes. This is mostly because players pre-1955 usually started in the independant minor leagues and so OOTP would not get them assigned to any team. They were all free agents and this caused team financials in OOTP to act weird and most players never got a chance to play on the team one would expect them too.

Your second try was right, use the master.csv

Spritze · 11-10-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

How about import the Minor League Database into it that's at baseball1.com?

That is not an importable db but it IS one of the main sources used in creating the Spritze db. The minor league db has very little in the way of the information OOTP uses to rate players.

To get that information I use a set of Spalding/Reach/Sporting news guides covering 1909 through 2007.

phillosopherp · 11-11-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

In this db everyones first year is with the team they are most associated with. After that the game goes where the game goes. This is mostly because players pre-1955 usually started in the independant minor leagues and so OOTP would not get them assigned to any team. They were all free agents and this caused team financials in OOTP to act weird and most players never got a chance to play on the team one would expect them too.

Your second try was right, use the master.csv

I am having an issue understanding this post. What do you mean that players are imported to the team they are most associated with. If I start in 1980 with you DB am I going to find everyone on the teams that they are supposed to be on, or some team that they played most of there career with or something. I just don't get it about what you said here.

SteveP · 11-11-2008, 01:04 AM

In other words, if you want to do a true historical league, you don't want to use this DB. Is that correct? That's too bad, because there is much about this DB that I like.

Spritze · 11-11-2008, 05:19 PM

This db is basically for a CAREER major and minor league historical league. To replay single major league seasons just use the included Lahman db.

In a career historical league players can get moved by the game to other teams as soon as you start playing. This db just starts them out on the team one most likely expects. Otherwise perhaps a Willie Mays never gets to play for the Giants at all. Using this db he starts on the Giants and then it is up to the player and the game AI as to what transpires from there.

phillosopherp · 11-11-2008, 07:52 PM

I think the big thing I am asking about is that first year. If I start a game in 1980 are the players on the team they were on in 1980 or are they on some other team? I don't care of course about after that, cause of the draft is the draft, and most importantly this DB has players entering when they entered in the draft per your advertising, right. So please let me know on this so that I don't have to make my own DB that would kill me.

SteveP · 11-11-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

I think the big thing I am asking about is that first year. If I start a game in 1980 are the players on the team they were on in 1980 or are they on some other team? I don't care of course about after that, cause of the draft is the draft, and most importantly this DB has players entering when they entered in the draft per your advertising, right. So please let me know on this so that I don't have to make my own DB that would kill me.

When I tried to start a league in 1960, somewhere around 25% of the players were on the wrong team (my very rough estimate). I think I understand now the mechanics that led to the DB being designed this way (the overriding objective being to have every player appear in the game when he first became a professional, regardless of where that was). I haven't figured out why having players on the correct teams in the first year of a league is unimportant, but having new players appear on the correct teams is important. Perhaps the idea is that over the course of several years, the teams will start to look more like what they did IRL. For example, if I started in 1960, by 1970 my Giants might look more like the Giants actually did in 1970, because of the flow of rookies coming in, and retirees, trades, etc. going out. Or maybe not.

I am more interested in playing through the 60s with more historically accurate teams, so I am going back to look at the Gambo DB. There are some odd rating situations there that I don't quite understand, but the teams are accurate and there are about double the number of players in each organization compared to the Lahman DB.

Spritze · 11-11-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

I think the big thing I am asking about is that first year. If I start a game in 1980 are the players on the team they were on in 1980 or are they on some other team? I don't care of course about after that, cause of the draft is the draft, and most importantly this DB has players entering when they entered in the draft per your advertising, right. So please let me know on this so that I don't have to make my own DB that would kill me.

You will need to make your own db or simply update the teams to match your start year in this one but is definitely not worth dying over.

It is only the start year you will need to update the teams in as the rest are immaterial.

Spritze · 11-11-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

I haven't figured out why having players on the correct teams in the first year of a league is unimportant, but having new players appear on the correct teams is important.

It isn't that it is unimportant it is just that there are 138 possible start years.

Unless you try to start a major/minor league in say 1918 you won't get it as there were NO non-independant minor league teams then. In 1980 they nearly ALL were non-independant. So in 1918 zero minor league rookies would be in an appropriate organization unless something like this is in place.

OOTP does not currently support Independant minor league teams so this db is merely a work-around for that situation.

SteveP · 11-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

You will need to make your own db or simply update the teams to match your start year in this one but is definitely not worth dying over.

It is only the start year you will need to update the teams in as the rest are immaterial.

OK, if I understand you, you are suggesting that I start a league in 1960, and before starting play, I re-assign all the players to the correct teams. I suppose that could be done by exporting the roster, making the changes in Excel, then reimporting the roster. Correct? For that, I would need an info source to tell me where everyone should go. While I can easily recognize when some players are on the wrong teams, that's not the same as knowing what is correct for everyone. Is there a info source that would cover all of the players in your DB?

Spritze · 11-12-2008, 01:52 PM

You can update the major league player teams by using the standard Lahman. Just choose what stint you want to use.

The minor league players teams/organizations may prove to be a tougher challenge.

thehef · 02-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Spritze wrote:

Quote:

So the Mod Garlon/Spritze neutralized db is the same as the game one with the addition of the Negro and Japanese players and it has Garlons fielding neutralizations included as well. It also includes any other items dropped from the originally submitted version, of which I think there are none.

I replied:

Quote:

Re the "Mod Garlon/Spritze neutralized db" about which you write in the... paragraph above, where can this one be found? Is it essentially the same as the 715 runs v on allsimbaseball.com (that's the only Garlon/Spritze db I see there)? I understand from other posts somewhere that there s/b no diff betw using the 750 & 715 v's...

Spritze answered:

Quote:

Arrr Matey, thats the one!

However, when I throw the master.csv file (from Lahman, because the 715 zip file does not come with a master.csv file) and the batting715.csv file into MS Access and do some queries, I find that there are no negro league players in the batting file. Am I doing something wrong or missing something?

Spritze · 02-27-2009, 02:24 PM

The 715 uses the same master file as the neutralized db which is also the 750 version.

thehef · 02-27-2009, 04:58 PM

So the 715 batting.csv file does not include negro leaguers... Therefore, the only difference between the 715 and 750 versions (other than the 715 vs 750-run environment, which really makes no difference) is that the 750 includes negro & Japanese players, and the 715 does not.

The 750 db can be found on allsimbaseball.com, under OOTP v8, named Garlon/Spritze Historical DBVer 2.1.

Are the above statements correct?

Assuming so, I see that this db is as of Feb '08. Does it appear to be working smoothly? Are there any known problems that one should be aware of?

Thanks in advance.

Spritze · 02-27-2009, 07:50 PM

715 was put out along with/at the same time as the 750 because some beta testers wanted to see if there were any difference. There was not. Both versions contain all the extra players. The same master was used for both iterations and so was not included in the 715. Only the files that changed were included in the 715. The 715/750 master includes all the extra players. There are stat lines in both 715 AND 750 for the negro and japanese players.

The 750 version of the db is included in the game, it is known as neutralized stats.

11-02-2008, 01:14 PM	#241 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	Mighty Mice? Mighty Mouses? Yeah I noticed that a while ago. All fixed for the next release, shortly after the new Lahman comes out.

11-10-2008, 07:38 PM	#244 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,768 Thanks: 6 Thanked 260x in 197 posts	Need help w/ this 5.0 DB I have tried starting a 1960 league with this, but the results are confusing. If I copy the ODB file (that OOTP included in the stats folder) over to this DB, and use it to launch a game, the resulting league has fewer than 600 total players. Figured that wasn't right, so deleted the ODB file and launched using the master file. That time I got over 1800 players (), but about 25% of them were on the wrong team. Not only that but the real life stats for these players showed them as playing on the wrong team(s) for most their careers. I saw in this thread that you talked about assigning players to a specific team, but I thought that was more about rookies, not entire careers. Have I done something wrong, or misinterpreted how this DB is to be used?

11-10-2008, 08:44 PM	#245 (permalink)
mgom27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,633 Thanks: 44 Thanked 108x in 71 posts	How about import the Minor League Database into it that's at baseball1.com? __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11-03-2008, 04:09 AM	#242 (permalink)
thehef Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 348 Thanks: 51 Thanked 20x in 18 posts	Back to park factors... I totally understand that it's a personal preference thing, but I just wanna make sure that I have the right info before I decide which way to go. For a historical league using the Mod Garlon/Spritze neutralized db, starting in 1901 and keeping players on thier same teams as in RL (moving/trading when necessary), if I want realistic stats, which - factors or no factors - is the way to go w this db? Going back to the very first post in this thread: "This park-neutral [db] puts all players on an equal footing... so that players who played... in Dodger Stadium [and] have poor hitting stats because that is perhaps the worst hitter's park... will benefit..., while players who played in Coors Field have their statistics reduced. Willie Davis who played for the Dodgers 1960-1979 had a career .279 BA, after conversion he goes to .301. This is the primary advantage this DB will provide - better representation of a player's abilities." Based upon the above, I'm thinking that - given what I'm doing, which will have Davis on LA for much of his career - I'd want to keep park factors in play in order to NOT have Davis' avg be significantly higher than in RL. By the same token, I'm assuming Vinny Castillo's HR numbers are adjusted lower in the db, but should reach RL levels if he plays (in the sim) at Coors field and park factors are used. Correct? Thanks in advance.

11-03-2008, 01:48 PM	#243 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	Correct.

11-11-2008, 01:04 AM	#249 (permalink)
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,768 Thanks: 6 Thanked 260x in 197 posts	In other words, if you want to do a true historical league, you don't want to use this DB. Is that correct? That's too bad, because there is much about this DB that I like.

11-11-2008, 05:19 PM	#250 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	This db is basically for a CAREER major and minor league historical league. To replay single major league seasons just use the included Lahman db. In a career historical league players can get moved by the game to other teams as soon as you start playing. This db just starts them out on the team one most likely expects. Otherwise perhaps a Willie Mays never gets to play for the Giants at all. Using this db he starts on the Giants and then it is up to the player and the game AI as to what transpires from there.

11-11-2008, 07:52 PM	#251 (permalink)
phillosopherp All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 509 Thanks: 68 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	I think the big thing I am asking about is that first year. If I start a game in 1980 are the players on the team they were on in 1980 or are they on some other team? I don't care of course about after that, cause of the draft is the draft, and most importantly this DB has players entering when they entered in the draft per your advertising, right. So please let me know on this so that I don't have to make my own DB that would kill me.

11-12-2008, 01:52 PM	#256 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	You can update the major league player teams by using the standard Lahman. Just choose what stint you want to use. The minor league players teams/organizations may prove to be a tougher challenge.

02-27-2009, 02:24 PM	#258 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	The 715 uses the same master file as the neutralized db which is also the 750 version.

02-27-2009, 04:58 PM	#259 (permalink)
thehef Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 348 Thanks: 51 Thanked 20x in 18 posts	So the 715 batting.csv file does not include negro leaguers... Therefore, the only difference between the 715 and 750 versions (other than the 715 vs 750-run environment, which really makes no difference) is that the 750 includes negro & Japanese players, and the 715 does not. The 750 db can be found on allsimbaseball.com, under OOTP v8, named Garlon/Spritze Historical DBVer 2.1. Are the above statements correct? Assuming so, I see that this db is as of Feb '08. Does it appear to be working smoothly? Are there any known problems that one should be aware of? Thanks in advance.

02-27-2009, 07:50 PM	#260 (permalink)
Spritze Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana Posts: 2,817 Thanks: 16 Thanked 306x in 217 posts	715 was put out along with/at the same time as the 750 because some beta testers wanted to see if there were any difference. There was not. Both versions contain all the extra players. The same master was used for both iterations and so was not included in the 715. Only the files that changed were included in the 715. The 715/750 master includes all the extra players. There are stat lines in both 715 AND 750 for the negro and japanese players. The 750 version of the db is included in the game, it is known as neutralized stats.