Great Teams Tournament for OOTP 11

[Solonor]

This is the Great Teams Tournament updated for OOTP 11, including the 2009 entry: 2009 Los Angeles Dodgers.

128 of the greatest teams ever, based on runs scored vs. runs allowed. The Pythagorean win percentage of each team is above .600, and to eliminate the same team of players from appearing over and over, no franchise is allowed an entry within three years of another entry (so, no 1975 and 1976 Reds).

The teams are aligned in two pools of four 16-team divisions each such that the top seed doesn't play the #2 seed until the playoffs.

The top 8 teams in each division are entered into a bracket-style playoff, with the first three rounds being single-elimination, followed by a 3-game quarter-final, a 5-game semi-final and a 7-game final.

Team historical logos and player pictures are included.

Great Teams Tournament Entries (in order)
1906 Chicago Cubs
1902 Pittsburgh Pirates
1939 New York Yankees
1927 New York Yankees
1944 St. Louis Cardinals
1909 Pittsburgh Pirates
1904 New York Giants
1910 Philadelphia Athletics
1969 Baltimore Orioles
1954 Cleveland Indians
1948 Cleveland Indians
2001 Seattle Mariners
1998 New York Yankees
1912 Boston Red Sox
1929 Philadelphia Athletics
1953 New York Yankees
1942 Brooklyn Dodgers
1912 New York Giants
1919 Cincinnati Reds
1975 Cincinnati Reds
1908 New York Giants
1910 Chicago Cubs
1974 Los Angeles Dodgers
1998 Atlanta Braves
1935 Chicago Cubs
1914 Philadelphia Athletics
1917 Chicago White Sox
1998 Houston Astros
1903 Boston Americans
1931 New York Yankees
1947 New York Yankees
1917 New York Giants
1953 Brooklyn Dodgers
1995 Cleveland Indians
1976 Philadelphia Phillies
1935 Detroit Tigers
1945 Chicago Cubs
1906 Cleveland Naps
1993 Atlanta Braves
2001 Oakland Athletics
1918 Chicago Cubs
1954 Chicago White Sox
1968 Detroit Tigers
1905 Chicago White Sox
1986 New York Mets
1957 New York Yankees
1961 New York Yankees
1909 Detroit Tigers
1949 Brooklyn Dodgers
1972 Pittsburgh Pirates
1922 St. Louis Browns
1973 Baltimore Orioles
1949 Boston Red Sox
1999 Arizona Diamondbacks
1940 Cincinnati Reds
1921 New York Yankees
1924 New York Giants
1920 Cleveland Indians
1954 New York Giants
1931 St. Louis Cardinals
1935 St. Louis Cardinals
1972 Oakland Athletics
2002 Anaheim Angels
2007 Boston Red Sox
1985 St. Louis Cardinals
1934 New York Giants
1915 Detroit Tigers
1979 Baltimore Orioles
1901 Chicago White Sox
2004 St. Louis Cardinals
1929 Chicago Cubs
1930 Washington Senators
1935 New York Yankees
2002 Boston Red Sox
1985 Toronto Blue Jays
1988 Oakland Athletics
1965 Minnesota Twins
1984 Detroit Tigers
1994 Montreal Expos
2002 New York Yankees
1964 Chicago White Sox
1942 Boston Red Sox
1969 Minnesota Twins
2009 Los Angeles Dodgers
1977 New York Yankees
1925 Pittsburgh Pirates
2008 Chicago Cubs
1962 San Francisco Giants
1915 Philadelphia Phillies
1985 New York Yankees
2002 San Francisco Giants
1994 Chicago White Sox
1904 Cincinnati Reds
1993 San Francisco Giants
1978 Los Angeles Dodgers
1905 Philadelphia Athletics
1948 Boston Braves
1929 New York Giants
1990 New York Mets
1977 Kansas City Royals
1957 Milwaukee Braves
1994 New York Yankees
1961 Detroit Tigers
2002 Atlanta Braves
1953 Milwaukee Braves
1920 Brooklyn Robins
1967 St. Louis Cardinals
1918 Boston Red Sox
2007 New York Yankees
1949 St. Louis Cardinals
1994 Cincinnati Reds
1982 Milwaukee Brewers
1916 Brooklyn Robins
1946 Detroit Tigers
1901 Brooklyn Superbas
1940 Detroit Tigers
1960 Pittsburgh Pirates
1925 Washington Senators
1978 Milwaukee Brewers
1966 Los Angeles Dodgers
1943 New York Yankees
1983 Chicago White Sox
1939 St. Louis Cardinals
2005 Cleveland Indians
1901 Philadelphia Phillies
1981 New York Yankees
1983 Baltimore Orioles
1992 Milwaukee Brewers

To download this quickstart, either grab it from http://rasreth.com/baseball/download/GTT.tar.gz and unzip it in your quickstart_games folder, or add a server to Add-Ons Central in the game, using http://rasreth.com/baseball/download/gtt.xml as the new server name.

I'm hoping to get it on PadreFan's site soon, too.

[Skrabec1]

Hi-

I'm not that familiar with OOTP, but your Historical Great Teams set is awesome. One quick question, how are these teams normalized or era adjusted?

Thanks,

Neil

[Solonor]

They are not, at this point. This is just the raw RS vs. RA as they scored 'em.

Normalizing the RS and RA to a fixed year is my next insane mission. Even still, it would only change the seeding, not necessarily the teams involved, because of the "no team from the same franchise within 3 years" rule.

[Solonor]

Now available at PadresFan Mods site.

[skunkle333]

Solonor...

Appreciate your work. This is intriguing as a project I'd like to play out sometime. However, as a strong White Sox fan I couldn't find their 1959, 1993 or 2005 World Series seasons. I'd change 94 for 93.

I'm wondering how much trouble it would be for me to make these changes or even if it's possible.

But I wouldn't get a chance to play this out until later on anyway. I'll dl and work on it in between my other current projects.

[Solonor]

Ah, you hit upon exactly what I was getting at...this is not "great" as defined by winning pennants or World Series. As a Red Sox fan, I don't find the 2004 Sox, for example. These are the teams that scored the most runs and allowed the least...leading to a Pythagorean win percentage greater than all others.

So, for example, for the White Sox even the '94 normal win percentage is better than '93. But when you look at it based on RS vs RA:

1993 RS 776 RA 664 Pythagorean WinPct = .568
1994 RS 633 RA 498 Pythagorean WinPct = .611

That's why 1994 Sox got in and the 1993 Sox didn't. The good thing is that it's probably mostly the same players.

BUT the beauty is that you can change it easily in OOTP! Just load the quickstart, then edit the league structure. Find the Pool and Division where the 1994 White Sox are located (Pool A, Division 3) and delete them. Then you can use the "import historical team" button to import the 1993 White Sox and voila! You will have to edit the logo and stuff, but if you download the photopack mod, it should automatically find all the player photos that are different from 1994.

[Solonor]

Oh yeah, when you delete the team, make sure you go to the free agent pool and delete all the free agents. The league settings should make it so the AI won't try to pick up any free agents, but better safe than sorry.

FYI, the AI settings don't allow injuries or trades or finances or anything. This is just supposed to be stat-vs-stat without all the extra crap. It's not designed to be a career-mode league. Obviously, you can change all that if you wish.

[NYY #23]

Thanks for putting this together!

I stumbled upon this today, downloaded, and ran a quick sim to see how it played out. Good regular season results, with a couple of tie breakers required to set the playoffs. I'm going to take my time with the next one, after I spend some more time looking over the results.

[skunkle333]

Thanks for your help Solonor...

I've had so much on my plate printing out the OOTP 11 manual...figuring other things out etc that I forgot about this until today. Amazing sometimes how an 'old' brain works.

Anyway I appreciate your work and understand why the 94 WSox were included. By the way...your website is superb. I spent a fair amount of time looking through stuff. Very well done.

I will certainly add this to my many OOTP projects. Really looking forward to this one.

OOTP V11...the baseball story with no limitations...

[MightyQuinn]

I am curious of all your settings...

I attempted something similiar just based on best team of each franchise in OOTPX and I made a few errors, one was I forgot to turn off trading...

I used only 30 teams, every team was represented... I see you dont have the Marlins, Padres, Rangers, Rays, or Rockies... (Nationals are represented by the Expos).

I see you based it on The Pythagorean win percentage... Have you ever taken for example, the 20-30 Yankee teams (you have 17 in the tournament), not worrying about the 3 year rule and see who comes out on top the majority of the time ???

Kind of have 30 tournaments (one for each team) and have their representative into the final tournament ???

Just rambling as it is giving me ideas Some would base on World Series, some would base on Season W/L, you base on the Pythagorean, would be interesting to see which would show the better teams of a franchise...

Do you have any stats posted anywhere of your results ???

[MightyQuinn]

[QUOTE=skunkle333;2959710] I've had so much on my plate printing out the OOTP 11 manual [QUOTE]

Hw did you do this ???

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by Solonor

Ah, you hit upon exactly what I was getting at...this is not "great" as defined by winning pennants or World Series. As a Red Sox fan, I don't find the 2004 Sox, for example. These are the teams that scored the most runs and allowed the least...leading to a Pythagorean win percentage greater than all others.

So, for example, for the White Sox even the '94 normal win percentage is better than '93. But when you look at it based on RS vs RA:

1993 RS 776 RA 664 Pythagorean WinPct = .568
1994 RS 633 RA 498 Pythagorean WinPct = .611

That's why 1994 Sox got in and the 1993 Sox didn't. The good thing is that it's probably mostly the same players.

BUT the beauty is that you can change it easily in OOTP! Just load the quickstart, then edit the league structure. Find the Pool and Division where the 1994 White Sox are located (Pool A, Division 3) and delete them. Then you can use the "import historical team" button to import the 1993 White Sox and voila! You will have to edit the logo and stuff, but if you download the photopack mod, it should automatically find all the player photos that are different from 1994.

ok didnt mean to quote all that but the 93 team has Bo Jackson 94 doesnt and Bo was the heart of that team...i understand how/why you made it this way but the 59 sox didnt score any runs but had great pitching and the 2005 team as well...sorry just being a disgruntled Sox fan.

[MightyQuinn]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

sorry just being a disgruntled Sox fan.

Well I dont think your disgruntled... I like conversations like this to see others point of views which helps me out to decide on my choices for my league or attempt at doing the best of...

I am using the 1917 - Chicago White Sox = Won World Series 100-54-2 .649 for my season/tournament... But then again if I do a league with real people, I might let them pick what season they think their franchises best...

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by MightyQuinn

Do you have any stats posted anywhere of your results ???

Back when I started this with OOTP9, I put some of the results on our league forum, but I really haven't done a serious replay with it for a while. I basically spent all my time building the thing, then ran a couple of quick tournaments and set it on the shelf for another year.

I updated the list back in March: SGCBL Owner Forum • View topic - OOTP9 Greatest Teams Tournament

[MightyQuinn]

Curious also, did you take into consideration that the AL teams chosen after 73 used DH ???

26 of 128 teams you chose used the DH Rule...

1973 Baltimore Orioles
1977 Kansas City Royals
1977 New York Yankees
1978 Milwaukee Brewers
1979 Baltimore Orioles
1981 New York Yankees
1982 Milwaukee Brewers
1983 Baltimore Orioles
1983 Chicago White Sox
1984 Detroit Tigers
1985 New York Yankees
1985 Toronto Blue Jays
1988 Oakland Athletics
1992 Milwaukee Brewers
1994 Chicago White Sox
1994 New York Yankees
1995 Cleveland Indians
1998 New York Yankees
2001 Oakland Athletics
2001 Seattle Mariners
2002 Anaheim Angels
2002 Boston Red Sox
2002 New York Yankees
2005 Cleveland Indians
2007 Boston Red Sox
2007 New York Yankees

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by MightyQuinn

Curious also, did you take into consideration that the AL teams chosen after 73 used DH ???

I made no special allowances for the DH, because (in theory) it doesn't matter to the Pythagorean W-L. Everyone within a season is playing by the same rules, so they're judged based on runs scored vs. runs allowed. (I suppose that you might say the AL teams have an advantage after 1973, but 19 of the post-1973 teams are NL, including the last two--the '08 Cubs and '09 Dodgers.)

When running the tournament, though, you have to decide how to handle the DH. I chose to put the teams in brackets based on Pyt. Wins and keep the DH rule for everyone. You could also put them into pools based on era and league and then have the winners play each other. Either way, you've still got the imperfection of the time shift and rule change to deal with.

[MightyQuinn]

I would have thought the DH rule would make a big difference as using it, teams would score more runs as a hitter would do better then a pitcher but wouldnt affect runs scored against as it was the same people on the field...

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by MightyQuinn

I would have thought the DH rule would make a big difference as using it, teams would score more runs as a hitter would do better then a pitcher but wouldnt affect runs scored against as it was the same people on the field...

It affects both equally, as you can't score a run without someone else giving up the run. More runs scored = more runs allowed for the league overall. So, the only difference is how good the team is at being the one scoring or preventing runs when compared to other teams.

If only two teams exist:

Team A: Scores 100 runs, Allows 50 runs
Team B: Scores 50 runs, Allows 100 runs

Doesn't matter if the DH increases the number of runs each of them scored. It also increases the number of runs the other team allows.

That's why I like the Pythagorean Wins method of determining who has the better team.

[MightyQuinn]

I dont know what it is but I its stuck in my head...

I was planning to have a season using the 30 teams with their best overall season and realized in order for them to play the way they did, some would need to be using DH and others not. I would think if a team used a DH and had to have a pitcher bat, they wouldnt be as affective as if they would have used a DH and vice versa, teams using a DH would score more runs and since the majority of the teams really never played each other, the league total (or tournament total) would have more RS then RA. Not like replaying a particular season where the RS = RA when all totalled up.

So I am thinking of messing around with an AI run league, 174 games, 3 Home, 3 Away vs every team in the league and the best Overall record would be the winner. But I noticed in my choices 7 teams played with the DH rule, the other 23 didnt. So I was thinking of setting 2 divisions, 1 of 7 teams using DH, so when they played each other and their home games would have DH. The other Division no DH. The division with DH is still at a bit of disadvantage since all their games wouldnt be DH as it was in real life.