Historical Facegen Project - Question about 300-byte Files

hefalumps · 01-10-2014, 11:56 PM

A few years ago I posted in this thread about a problem I was having with some of the historical faces. Specifically, I had two players (Shawon Dunston and Tim Flannery) occasionally reverting to incorrect (wrong race) or corrupted faces. Sometimes they'd look like right, other times they'd be messed up. The only commonality between the two was that their FG files were only 300 bytes in size. I checked the final HFP release and both of these players' FG files are now normal size files, so I'm assuming these two were fixed/updated in the final release.

Well, three years later I've run into the problem again with another player - Eddie Yost. He'd looked the same for several game years until he recently became a free agent, and I suddenly noticed he was an African American. I clicked "Same Picture" and he went back to looking the way I remembered, but after he signed he was suddenly African American again. "Same Picture" didn't work this time. And his FG file is also 300 bytes.

So I tried importing his 300 byte FG file - no change. So I imported someone else's FG file (Markus). That worked - he looked like Markus. So I re-imported the 300-byte FG file - and no change; he still looked like Markus. Then I imported Eddie Wilson's FG file - it looked the way I remembered Yost looking in previous years, so I left it like that. But if I compare actual pictures of Yost to the photo he has now (or a baseball card created with his old face), neither of them look like Yost.

Does anyone have any insight on what's going on? There's 131 FG files in the final HFP release that are 300 bytes - do any of these faces actually work? Are they just placeholders for people who didn't have good pictures available for making an FG file? If so, are there any plans to go back and update them?

Thanks so much for any help anyone can offer. I don't want to sound ungrateful - I love the HFP and it makes the game so much more enjoyable for me, and I'm very appreciative of all the work that was put into it. Just curious if I was doing something wrong with these particular faces. Thanks!

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 12:06 AM

Well, I downloaded the FaceGen Modeller Free version and opened up the Eddie_Yost.fg file that was 300 bytes - and in the Modeller program, the face looks like Yost. So I'm not sure why OOTP doesn't seem to want to display it correctly.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks!

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 02:57 PM

The confusion continues...

I was playing around with Facegen Modeller this morning, looking at all the different 300-byte files to ensure they all look different, and they do. So I went back to OOTP and looked at Eddie Yost again - he now magically looks like himself and exactly the way his FG file looks in the Modeller program.

So I'm stumped - no idea why OOTP momentarily thought Eddie was African American and wouldn't load his FG file. But it's fixed now - even though I didn't do anything.

It's still odd that of the three faces I've had issues with, they all had 300-byte FG files.

Not sure anyone is actually reading this thread, but if I discover anything else I'll post back.

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 03:07 PM

One more thing...

It looks like all the 300 byte files don't have a "Detail Texture" configured when you load them in Modeller. Any file that's a bigger file size usually has "Detail Texture" set to "Photo Detail".

So maybe what I was seeing was that the facial points from Yost's FG file were being loaded correctly, but an incorrect detail texture was getting used by OOTP, making him either look different or have a different race altogether.

If I run into this problem again, I'll probably load the 300-byte FG file in Modeller, set "Detail Texture" to one of the pre-configured Male textures, and overwrite the existing file. Maybe that will fix the issue.

Wait a minute... let me try something - I think I might be on to something...

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 03:14 PM

In the continuing conversation with myself...

So I went into OOTP, found an African American player (Jackie Robinson fittingly), and clicked "Same Picture" on his profile page to make OOTP regenerate his picture.

Then I went back to Mr. Yost and re-generated his picture. Guess what - Yost is now African American again!

So I went back to a Caucasian player (Brooks Robinson - why not), clicked "Same Picture", returned to Mr. Yost, and clicked "Same Picture" on him. Mr. Yost is now Caucasian again - with the same exact skin tone as Brooks.

That must be what's going on - when OOTP encounters a 300-byte FG file that doesn't have a "detail texture" set, it must use the "detail texture" from the last face it generated.

Mystery solved? I hope so. I'll test by editing Yost's FG file in Modeller to include one of the preset detail textures to see if that fixes this issue. If it does, then by my count there's still 130 FG files that need to be fixed!

I'd still welcome any input from people who are familiar with making Facegen faces - but hopefully this thread helps someone else encountering this issue some day.

The Game · 01-11-2014, 03:17 PM

I loaded yost and saved to my desktop comes in at 6 KB. Th Fg_Files folder takes too long to load for me to check the original but i will say he doesnt show up clearly.

The Game · 01-11-2014, 03:19 PM

When you go into Yost profile does he have AA instead of Caucasian?

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game

When you go into Yost profile does he have AA instead of Caucasian?

You seem to have a different Yost FG file than I do - I noticed your's has "Photo Detail" in the Detail Texture drop-down, where mine has "None"

With regards to the race, are you talking about what his race is set to in OOTP? I haven't tried manually setting his facial type in OOTP to see if that makes it stick. Let me try...

Nope - manually setting his face type to Caucasian in OOTP definitely made him white, but it also seemed to give him a fictional face - didn't look anything like him.

So I reimported his FG file which made him look more like him again, and tried doing the "Robinson Re-generating" trick again, and each time Yost took on the facial coloring/texture of the last face that was generated.

The Game - I'm curious - are the photos you're using straight out of the Historical Facegen Project? As far as I know I have the most recent version - not sure why you and I would have different Yost FG files unless your's came from a different source.

Thanks!

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 03:39 PM

FYI - I set the "Detail Texture" to one of the presets in Yost's FG file and saved it - resulting file size was about 70 KB.

Replaced the old 300-byte Yost FG file with this new one and imported it into his player profile. I then went back and reloaded Jackie Robinson's picture, and came back to Yost. This time Yost stayed Caucasian with his facial tone in tact.

So I think it's safe to say that the lack of "Detail Texture" in these 300-byte FG files was causing the problem I was encountering. I guess I'll slowly go through and edit the 130 other files that have this issue - unless someone has already done this?

Thanks!

The Game · 01-11-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

You seem to have a different Yost FG file than I do - I noticed your's has "Photo Detail" in the Detail Texture drop-down, where mine has "None"

With regards to the race, are you talking about what his race is set to in OOTP? I haven't tried manually setting his facial type in OOTP to see if that makes it stick. Let me try...

Nope - manually setting his face type to Caucasian in OOTP definitely made him white, but it also seemed to give him a fictional face - didn't look anything like him.

So I reimported his FG file which made him look more like him again, and tried doing the "Robinson Re-generating" trick again, and each time Yost took on the facial coloring/texture of the last face that was generated.

The Game - I'm curious - are the photos you're using straight out of the Historical Facegen Project? As far as I know I have the most recent version - not sure why you and I would have different Yost FG files unless your's came from a different source.

Thanks!

I think my set is from ootpmods not the AIO. i am not showing any difference in the one i have in 13 from the one i have in 14.

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 04:05 PM

Oh - I just realized you were looking at Ned Yost, not Eddie Yost.

Maybe that's why there was a difference! My Ned Yost is also about 6.2 KB.

I'd be curious if you load Eddie Yost and see if your version also doesn't have a Detail Texture (and is 300 bytes in size)

The Game · 01-11-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Oh - I just realized you were looking at Ned Yost, not Eddie Yost.

Maybe that's why there was a difference! My Ned Yost is also about 6.2 KB.

I'd be curious if you load Eddie Yost and see if your version also doesn't have a Detail Texture (and is 300 bytes in size)

i guess someone needs to redo Eddie Yost

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 04:38 PM

Well - there you go.

I'm going to try to just add detail textures to any 300-byte FG files I find, but I'm sure it's not going to be as good as someone who knows what they're doing or has the original photo to work with.

Thanks for checking, Game.

Lukas Berger · 01-11-2014, 04:45 PM

Hefalumps, according to my knowledge as a pretty experienced facegen user, the conclusions you came up with are accurate.

As to how the faces got that way, well I think some folks didn't know what they were doing when making them which is also why there are so many undead zombies in the historical faces. I was working on correcting a lot of these, along with some other folks, but got busy with some other projects and haven't worked on the historical faces for a while. Hopefully I'll find time to start up on them again soon.

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Hefalumps, according to my knowledge as a pretty experienced facegen user, the conclusions you came you with are accurate.

As to how the faces got that way, well I think some folks didn't know what they were doing when making them which is also why there are so many undead zombies in the historical faces. I was working on correcting a lot of these, along with some other folks, but got busy with some other projects and haven't worked on the historical faces for a while. Hopefully I'll find time to start up on them again soon.

Thanks for the input, lukasberger.

So do you have any advice on the easiest way for me to fix these myself? Would just picking one of the preset detail textures and adjusting the sliders to make it look "natural" be my best bet?

The Game · 01-11-2014, 06:17 PM

I was going to try a fresh one. Do you by chance have a list of the 300 club? I will check my FG files and see but that will be tomorrow. Maybe the 3 of us can redo them. There cant be that many can there?

hefalumps · 01-11-2014, 06:22 PM

Including Yost, I found 131 files in my HFP folder that were exactly 300 bytes.

I'd be happy to help and divide them up - but I'd just want some guidance on the best way to fix them so I didn't end up having to re-do mine. Make sure we're all on the same page. I've never done a PhotoFit FG file from scratch - is there a tutorial somewhere? A good source of player photos to use?

Thanks.

Lukas Berger · 01-11-2014, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Thanks for the input, lukasberger.

So do you have any advice on the easiest way for me to fix these myself? Would just picking one of the preset detail textures and adjusting the sliders to make it look "natural" be my best bet?

My choice would simply be to make new faces. I know, easy for me to say

I don't love the results of adding in texture that's not already there and a lot of those faces aren't so great in the first place imho.

Not sure what there is for a tutorial, I'll see what I can find. If I can't find one I'll try to make one up sometime soon. As for a source these forums, especially the photo threads, can't be beat for baseball pics from all time periods. Google searches work too, but many of the best pics just come from here anyway.

The Game · 01-12-2014, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

My choice would simply be to make new faces. I know, easy for me to say

I don't love the results of adding in texture that's not already there and a lot of those faces aren't so great in the first place imho.

Not sure what there is for a tutorial, I'll see what I can find. If I can't find one I'll try to make one up sometime soon. As for a source these forums, especially the photo threads, can't be beat for baseball pics from all time periods. Google searches work too, but many of the best pics just come from here anyway.

Thats the way I was leaning also. i suck at B& W's i know lukas can do those hopefully there is not too many. How many of these players have already been done in the update thread with Elysian Fields?

hefalumps · 01-12-2014, 08:37 AM

Later today I'll compile a list of the names of players who are 300-bytes. These will be straight from the latest HFP download from OOTPMods.

01-10-2014, 11:56 PM	#1
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Historical Facegen Project - Question about 300-byte Files A few years ago I posted in this thread about a problem I was having with some of the historical faces. Specifically, I had two players (Shawon Dunston and Tim Flannery) occasionally reverting to incorrect (wrong race) or corrupted faces. Sometimes they'd look like right, other times they'd be messed up. The only commonality between the two was that their FG files were only 300 bytes in size. I checked the final HFP release and both of these players' FG files are now normal size files, so I'm assuming these two were fixed/updated in the final release. Well, three years later I've run into the problem again with another player - Eddie Yost. He'd looked the same for several game years until he recently became a free agent, and I suddenly noticed he was an African American. I clicked "Same Picture" and he went back to looking the way I remembered, but after he signed he was suddenly African American again. "Same Picture" didn't work this time. And his FG file is also 300 bytes. So I tried importing his 300 byte FG file - no change. So I imported someone else's FG file (Markus). That worked - he looked like Markus. So I re-imported the 300-byte FG file - and no change; he still looked like Markus. Then I imported Eddie Wilson's FG file - it looked the way I remembered Yost looking in previous years, so I left it like that. But if I compare actual pictures of Yost to the photo he has now (or a baseball card created with his old face), neither of them look like Yost. Does anyone have any insight on what's going on? There's 131 FG files in the final HFP release that are 300 bytes - do any of these faces actually work? Are they just placeholders for people who didn't have good pictures available for making an FG file? If so, are there any plans to go back and update them? Thanks so much for any help anyone can offer. I don't want to sound ungrateful - I love the HFP and it makes the game so much more enjoyable for me, and I'm very appreciative of all the work that was put into it. Just curious if I was doing something wrong with these particular faces. Thanks!

01-11-2014, 03:19 PM	#7
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,803	When you go into Yost profile does he have AA instead of Caucasian? __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

01-11-2014, 04:45 PM	#14
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 19,883	Hefalumps, according to my knowledge as a pretty experienced facegen user, the conclusions you came up with are accurate. As to how the faces got that way, well I think some folks didn't know what they were doing when making them which is also why there are so many undead zombies in the historical faces. I was working on correcting a lot of these, along with some other folks, but got busy with some other projects and haven't worked on the historical faces for a while. Hopefully I'll find time to start up on them again soon. Last edited by Lukas Berger; 01-13-2014 at 12:41 AM.

01-11-2014, 06:17 PM	#16
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,803	I was going to try a fresh one. Do you by chance have a list of the 300 club? I will check my FG files and see but that will be tomorrow. Maybe the 3 of us can redo them. There cant be that many can there? __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

01-11-2014, 06:22 PM	#17
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Including Yost, I found 131 files in my HFP folder that were exactly 300 bytes. I'd be happy to help and divide them up - but I'd just want some guidance on the best way to fix them so I didn't end up having to re-do mine. Make sure we're all on the same page. I've never done a PhotoFit FG file from scratch - is there a tutorial somewhere? A good source of player photos to use? Thanks. Last edited by hefalumps; 01-11-2014 at 06:26 PM.

01-11-2014, 12:06 AM	#2
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Well, I downloaded the FaceGen Modeller Free version and opened up the Eddie_Yost.fg file that was 300 bytes - and in the Modeller program, the face looks like Yost. So I'm not sure why OOTP doesn't seem to want to display it correctly. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!

01-11-2014, 02:57 PM	#3
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	The confusion continues... I was playing around with Facegen Modeller this morning, looking at all the different 300-byte files to ensure they all look different, and they do. So I went back to OOTP and looked at Eddie Yost again - he now magically looks like himself and exactly the way his FG file looks in the Modeller program. So I'm stumped - no idea why OOTP momentarily thought Eddie was African American and wouldn't load his FG file. But it's fixed now - even though I didn't do anything. It's still odd that of the three faces I've had issues with, they all had 300-byte FG files. Not sure anyone is actually reading this thread, but if I discover anything else I'll post back.

01-11-2014, 03:07 PM	#4
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	One more thing... It looks like all the 300 byte files don't have a "Detail Texture" configured when you load them in Modeller. Any file that's a bigger file size usually has "Detail Texture" set to "Photo Detail". So maybe what I was seeing was that the facial points from Yost's FG file were being loaded correctly, but an incorrect detail texture was getting used by OOTP, making him either look different or have a different race altogether. If I run into this problem again, I'll probably load the 300-byte FG file in Modeller, set "Detail Texture" to one of the pre-configured Male textures, and overwrite the existing file. Maybe that will fix the issue. Wait a minute... let me try something - I think I might be on to something...

01-11-2014, 03:14 PM	#5
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	In the continuing conversation with myself... So I went into OOTP, found an African American player (Jackie Robinson fittingly), and clicked "Same Picture" on his profile page to make OOTP regenerate his picture. Then I went back to Mr. Yost and re-generated his picture. Guess what - Yost is now African American again! So I went back to a Caucasian player (Brooks Robinson - why not), clicked "Same Picture", returned to Mr. Yost, and clicked "Same Picture" on him. Mr. Yost is now Caucasian again - with the same exact skin tone as Brooks. That must be what's going on - when OOTP encounters a 300-byte FG file that doesn't have a "detail texture" set, it must use the "detail texture" from the last face it generated. Mystery solved? I hope so. I'll test by editing Yost's FG file in Modeller to include one of the preset detail textures to see if that fixes this issue. If it does, then by my count there's still 130 FG files that need to be fixed! I'd still welcome any input from people who are familiar with making Facegen faces - but hopefully this thread helps someone else encountering this issue some day.

01-11-2014, 03:39 PM	#9
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	FYI - I set the "Detail Texture" to one of the presets in Yost's FG file and saved it - resulting file size was about 70 KB. Replaced the old 300-byte Yost FG file with this new one and imported it into his player profile. I then went back and reloaded Jackie Robinson's picture, and came back to Yost. This time Yost stayed Caucasian with his facial tone in tact. So I think it's safe to say that the lack of "Detail Texture" in these 300-byte FG files was causing the problem I was encountering. I guess I'll slowly go through and edit the 130 other files that have this issue - unless someone has already done this? Thanks!

01-11-2014, 04:05 PM	#11
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Oh - I just realized you were looking at Ned Yost, not Eddie Yost. Maybe that's why there was a difference! My Ned Yost is also about 6.2 KB. I'd be curious if you load Eddie Yost and see if your version also doesn't have a Detail Texture (and is 300 bytes in size)

01-11-2014, 04:38 PM	#13
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Well - there you go. I'm going to try to just add detail textures to any 300-byte FG files I find, but I'm sure it's not going to be as good as someone who knows what they're doing or has the original photo to work with. Thanks for checking, Game.

01-12-2014, 08:37 AM	#20
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	Later today I'll compile a list of the names of players who are 300-bytes. These will be straight from the latest HFP download from OOTPMods.