1843-70 amateur BB clubs in excel

Kobeck · 06-12-2013, 10:27 AM

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3518204

goroyals · 06-25-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobeck

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3518204

Great work! Excellent contribution.

Kobeck · 06-27-2013, 11:30 PM

Thanks

Im going to read your Saga thread tonight.

I will be adding some more pre Civil War teams that I have information on and then this project will be complete. At least for me.

The more I learn about the pre NA baseball the more I know the puzzle will never be totally put back together.

Kobeck · 06-27-2013, 11:38 PM

Trudy E. Bell, M.A. - Craig B. Waff, Ph.D., 1946-2012

I never met Craig Waff but I need to give some credit to him as I did access the information he released. He really dug up some obscure BB games that most people had never heard of. Of course he backed that up with a PHD so I took it at face value.

RIP and thanks for sharing the information

Kobeck · 07-04-2013, 03:06 PM

I will have to break the Excel file into parts to upload the final FINAL release.

1843-56, 1857-70 & 1843-70 Team Years

If there is a desire I could release some Cricket and Pre-1843 stuff.

for those wondering what was added. Lots of team years from 57-60 were added. At this point I think about all the teams from 1843-68 (except 1865 see below) and any teams of significance from 1869&70 have been accounted for here. For whatever reason my source material was just not as exhaustive in those 1869&70.
To satisify my own curiosity the following is how many teams are listed for each year

1843 1
1844 1
1845 3
1846 4
1847 2
1848 1
1849 1
1850 2
1851 2
1852 2
1853 2
1854 4
1855 27
1856 34
1857 97
1858 232
1859 207
1860 322
1861 60
1862 43
1863 38
1864 49
1865 31
1866 104
1867 437
1868 567
1869 299
1870 278

the only years I am certain I am missing teams are 1965, 1869 and 1870.
In 1865 the number should be somewhere between 49 and 104 with 1 source noting 91 teams but not listing them! So I am missing more than half the teams. Of course it would be easy enough to get a few of those by seeing which teams were active in 1864 & 66 and just including them in 1865. I have not done this but it would be logical. Other than that I would be guessing about which teams to include, but I am certain there were more than the 31 I could find.

1869 and 1870 share the same story. The teams that are missing are in all likleyhood not of any significance. I estimate about 200-300 teams are missing from each season.

1871 and onward saw the quick decline and death of top level amateur BB. NAABBP formed in 1871 and 1877 was its last year, some teams held out beyond then but nobody except friends and family were concerned with their games. Between all levels of professional BB and the emerging college game there was not much room left for the amateurs.

goroyals · 07-05-2013, 03:21 PM

What do the numbers in the "Cat" column mean?

Kobeck · 07-05-2013, 10:37 PM

things you might be asking about the excel file. It is as comprenhesive as I can get it with the reference material available to me. I do not claim this is all the teams there were.

header is the year
first colum is what we would call team nickname
second is the city the team is based in, not their primary venue.
third is the state, or in the case of New York City teams - the borough
fourth is Cat, or category. Prestiege might be another term here.
0 is professional and not used till 1869 & 70.
1 is prestigious teams that were prominent in the papers of the day.
2 is teams that played many prestigious clubs and were noted for doing so
3 is other BB clubs that played some prestigious BB clubs
4 is any other BB clubs I had solid information on
5 is any other BB clubs that I had inferred information on. A team mentioned somewhere but I found no records of it anywhere else. A good chunk of these might have never actually played a game against another BB club

nobody has asked about JIMMS yet. But I will answer anyways. These early amateur clubs played all sorts of matches that we would not consider a straight BB game. JIMMS stand for Juniors Intrasquad Married Muffins (beginners) Skates (yep they scheduled and played BB on skates). I dont really consider these games as legit BB games, but it does show club activity and I think that is of some value.

Kiwifan · 10-19-2014, 12:44 AM

Hey, thanks for this it is great. I have a universe that I am working on where I want to start prior to 1871. I am wondering if you or anyone else had some thoughts on the stats and player creation settings that might work for an ammateur area. I don't need them to be too acurate just somethign fun to play with. I already have some league devleopment ideas, unis etc. Just looking for ideas about stats devleopment.

06-12-2013, 10:27 AM	#1
Kobeck Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 488	1843-70 amateur BB clubs in excel http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3518204

06-27-2013, 11:30 PM	#3
Kobeck Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 488	Thanks Im going to read your Saga thread tonight. I will be adding some more pre Civil War teams that I have information on and then this project will be complete. At least for me. The more I learn about the pre NA baseball the more I know the puzzle will never be totally put back together.

06-27-2013, 11:38 PM	#4
Kobeck Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 488	Trudy E. Bell, M.A. - Craig B. Waff, Ph.D., 1946-2012 I never met Craig Waff but I need to give some credit to him as I did access the information he released. He really dug up some obscure BB games that most people had never heard of. Of course he backed that up with a PHD so I took it at face value. RIP and thanks for sharing the information

07-05-2013, 03:21 PM	#6
goroyals All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 929	What do the numbers in the "Cat" column mean?

07-05-2013, 10:37 PM	#7
Kobeck Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 488	things you might be asking about the excel file. It is as comprenhesive as I can get it with the reference material available to me. I do not claim this is all the teams there were. header is the year first colum is what we would call team nickname second is the city the team is based in, not their primary venue. third is the state, or in the case of New York City teams - the borough fourth is Cat, or category. Prestiege might be another term here. 0 is professional and not used till 1869 & 70. 1 is prestigious teams that were prominent in the papers of the day. 2 is teams that played many prestigious clubs and were noted for doing so 3 is other BB clubs that played some prestigious BB clubs 4 is any other BB clubs I had solid information on 5 is any other BB clubs that I had inferred information on. A team mentioned somewhere but I found no records of it anywhere else. A good chunk of these might have never actually played a game against another BB club nobody has asked about JIMMS yet. But I will answer anyways. These early amateur clubs played all sorts of matches that we would not consider a straight BB game. JIMMS stand for Juniors Intrasquad Married Muffins (beginners) Skates (yep they scheduled and played BB on skates). I dont really consider these games as legit BB games, but it does show club activity and I think that is of some value.

10-19-2014, 12:44 AM	#8
Kiwifan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 122	Hey, thanks for this it is great. I have a universe that I am working on where I want to start prior to 1871. I am wondering if you or anyone else had some thoughts on the stats and player creation settings that might work for an ammateur area. I don't need them to be too acurate just somethign fun to play with. I already have some league devleopment ideas, unis etc. Just looking for ideas about stats devleopment.