Historical financial questions

[Kelric]

Has anyone come up with good settings for financials and strategies for the the '50s and/or the '60s? Same with attendance and ticket price and all that stuff.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Kelric

Has anyone come up with good settings for financials and strategies for the the '50s and/or the '60s? Same with attendance and ticket price and all that stuff.

Attendance back to 1969 . . .more than that is a work in progress.

http://www.allsimbaseball.com/index....d=18&Itemid=37

There is also a financial coefficient spreadsheet there going back to 1900. It translates the modern financial curve into an equivalent for each year over the last 104 years.

Heads up!

You may get odd results if you tinker with average attendance and ticket prices simultaneously. Have a plan, do a little math, and sim your figures before getting too deeply involved.

[Kelric]

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm going to be testing everything. Not starting until the first patch is out anyways.

[Splitter24]

To give you an idea where attendances should be, here's the average home attendances for each team in 1954:

AL
New York: 19,158
Cleveland: 17,344
Chicago: 15,995
Detroit: 14,024
Baltimore: 13,778
Boston: 12,093
Washington: 6,540
Philadelphia: 3,597

NL
Milwaukee: 27,680
New York: 15,001
St. Louis: 13,503
Brooklyn: 13,254
Chicago: 9,717
Philadelphia: 9,597
Cincinatti: 9,145
Pittsburgh: 6,175

[Kelric]

Barring errors of me entering the numbers, that's about 12,900 on average. I'll call it 13k. Close enough for me. Thanks.

[Le Grande Orange]

A few tables that should help you get started.

Average ticket price, 1950-59:

AMERICAN LEAGUE
      1950   1951   1952   1953   1954   1955   1956   1957   1958   1959
BAL    ---    ---    ---    ---   1.76   1.63   1.63   1.63   1.63   1.63
BOS   1.56   1.57   1.57   1.57   1.70   1.70   1.70   1.70   1.76   1.76
CHA   1.44   1.40   1.44   1.64   1.64   1.64   1.64   1.82   1.86   1.86
CLE   1.45   1.44   1.58   1.58   1.58   1.58   1.58   1.68   1.68   1.68
DET   1.40   1.37   1.50   1.54   1.43   1.54   1.54   1.72   1.74   1.74
KCA    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   1.98   2.10   2.18   2.18   2.27
NYA   1.69   1.69   1.69   1.69   1.83   1.91   1.91   1.91   1.91   2.12
PHA   1.59   1.59   1.65   1.65   1.65    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---
SLA   1.66   1.64   1.70   1.70    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---
WS1   1.24   1.28   1.28   1.35   1.61   1.58   1.62   1.61   1.61   1.61

Avg   1.50   1.50   1.55   1.59   1.65   1.70   1.72   1.78   1.80   1.83

NATIONAL LEAGUE
      1950   1951   1952   1953   1954   1955   1956   1957   1958   1959
BSN   1.43   1.43   1.43    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---
BRO   1.66   1.66   1.69   1.69   1.68   1.81   1.81   1.81    ---    ---
CHN   1.44   1.44   1.62   1.68   1.68   1.68   1.68   1.68   1.82   1.82
CIN   1.60   1.59   1.60   1.63   1.72   1.72   1.74   1.85   1.85   1.86
LAN    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   2.03   2.03
MLN    ---    ---    ---   1.65   1.59   1.74   1.74   1.81   1.89   1.89
NY1   1.41   1.51   1.51   1.51   1.51   1.57   1.57   1.57    ---    ---
PHI   1.59   1.59   1.65   1.65   1.65   1.77   1.77   1.77   1.77   1.77
PIT   1.82   1.82   1.82   1.81   1.81   1.81   1.81   1.95   2.26   1.98
SLN   1.69   1.69   1.70   1.70   1.73   1.73   1.73   1.72   1.71   1.85
SFN    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   2.47   2.52

Avg   1.58   1.59   1.63   1.67   1.67   1.73   1.73   1.77   1.98   1.97


MAJOR LEAGUE
      1950   1951   1952   1953   1954   1955   1956   1957   1958   1959
Avg   1.54   1.54   1.59   1.63   1.66   1.71   1.72   1.78   1.89   1.90

Average attendance, 1950-59:

      AMERICAN  NATIONAL
YEAR   LEAGUE    LEAGUE      MLB
1950   14,746    13,464    14,106
1951   14,397    11,646    13,016
1952   13,356    10,258    11,810
1953   11,269    11,929    11,600
1954   12,757    13,009    12,883
1955   14,471    12,458    13,466
1956   12,773    13,928    13,352
1957   13,306    14,248    13,778
1958   11,787    16,501    14,138
1959   14,805    16,120    15,464

Total player payroll, 1952-58:

YEAR  AMERICAN LEAGUE         NATIONAL LEAGUE
                       $                       $
1952  Cleveland     442,930   New York      433,000
1952  New York      421,000   St. Louis     395,000
1952  Detroit       380,230   Brooklyn      357,500
1952  Boston        378,270   Philadelphia  304,000
1952  Washington    274,250   Pittsburgh    297,000
1952  Philadelphia  269,310   Boston        279,000
1952  Chicago       264,210   Chicago       263,000
1952  St. Louis     262,470   Cincinnati    224,000

1953  Cleveland     451,000   New York      423,500
1953  New York      438,250   Chicago       404,500
1953  Boston        425,000   St. Louis     391,500
1953  Detroit       335,160   Brooklyn      385,000
1953  Chicago       333,500   Philadelphia  321,250
1953  St. Louis     292,630   Milwaukee     292,200
1953  Philadelphia  272,500   Cincinnati    236,000
1953  Washington    251,000   Pittsburgh    207,250

1954  New York      510,000   Brooklyn      441,500
1954  Cleveland     487,050   St. Louis     398,250
1954  Chicago       408,000   Milwaukee     372,750
1954  Boston        400,250   Chicago       362,000
1954  Washington    300,500   New York      358,500
1954  Detroit       278,660   Philadelphia  335,000
1954  Baltimore     272,400   Cincinnati    237,000
1954  Philadelphia  215,730   Pittsburgh    208,000

1955  Cleveland     567,000   Milwaukee     433,500
1955  Chicago       430,630   New York      428,000
1955  New York      411,500   Brooklyn      415,500
1955  Boston        398,000   Philadelphia  360,250
1955  Detroit       291,730   St. Louis     349,000
1955  Washington    287,500   Chicago       303,000
1955  Baltimore     270,750   Cincinnati    274,250
1955  Kansas City   251,440   Pittsburgh    220,500

1956  New York      492,000   Brooklyn      472,000
1956  Cleveland     444,520   Milwaukee     437,500
1956  Chicago       438,090   Philadelphia  409,000
1956  Boston        421,000   St. Louis     403,000
1956  Detroit       361,770   New York      396,500
1956  Baltimore     302,000   Cincinnati    305,500
1956  Kansas City   253,030   Chicago       283,625
1956  Washington    215,250   Pittsburgh    248,000

1957  New York      550,000   Brooklyn      530,000
1957  Cleveland     500,000   Milwaukee     500,000
1957  Chicago       465,000   St. Louis     450,000
1957  Boston        450,000   New York      450,000
1957  Detroit       395,000   Philadelphia  440,500
1957  Baltimore     352,000   Cincinnati    355,000
1957  Kansas City   300,000   Chicago       340,000
1957  Washington    275,000   Pittsburgh    275,000

1958  New York      610,000   Milwaukee     550,000
1958  Cleveland     565,000   Los Angeles   550,000
1958  Chicago       510,000   San Francisco 500,000
1958  Boston        500,000   St. Louis     500,000
1958  Detroit       435,000   Philadelphia  487,000
1958  Baltimore     400,000   Cincinnati    400,000
1958  Kansas City   350,000   Chicago       390,000
1958  Washington    330,000   Pittsburgh    320,000

Official MLB minimum salary:
1947: $5,000
1954: $6,000
1957: $7,000

Average salary:
1949: $15,000 (the average American earned $3,000)
1950s: during the decade 75% of all MLB players earned between $10,000 and $25,000

Highest salary:
1947: $100,000 (Hank Greenberg)
1950: $125,000 (Ted Williams)

[swampdragon]

I think LGO has a table for everything that could arise in a baseball season.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I think LGO has a table for everything that could arise in a baseball season.

I'm just a digital packrat. When I come across something interesting, I'll save it away onto my hard drive. The problem is in trying to find the darned file again later.

Oh, and when it comes to player stats tables and analysis, I'm hopelessly lost. I leave that area of expertise to others...

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm just a digital packrat. When I come across something interesting, I'll save it away onto my hard drive. The problem is in trying to find the darned file again later.

I'm envisioning LGO having a folder labeled Scheduleslovakia that's about 100 GB. Of course, now there's Dataslovakia where everything else resides.

At least he's technologically advanced. Most of my stuff sits on bookshelves.

[kagnew35]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm just a digital packrat. When I come across something interesting, I'll save it away onto my hard drive. The problem is in trying to find the darned file again later.

Oh, and when it comes to player stats tables and analysis, I'm hopelessly lost. I leave that area of expertise to others...

I use roboform to do all my saves, its free and acts as a permanent notepad. even saves ur log ins

roboform.com

[bp_]

I would be nice if we had a year-by-year guide to the average ticket cost. Is there anything like that downloadable at this time? Right now I am just letting the owner make the ticket price in my historical sim.

[BruceM]

Originally Posted by bp_

I would be nice if we had a year-by-year guide to the average ticket cost. Is there anything like that downloadable at this time? Right now I am just letting the owner make the ticket price in my historical sim.

If you ever find a list like this or create one yourself, let me know and I'll add it to my spreadsheet (Chronology)

I'm always looking for more stuff to add to that, especially anything that will help historical simmers.

[Jonzard]

Any attendance info for leagues before this? Right now I am looking at 1940+

nevermind, baseballreference.com has a lot

[TSmith1969]

For the record, average attendance data is here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL.shtml


Scroll down half way to "Pitching Totals".
Attendance/Game is the last column on the right.
AL goes back to 1901 and NL to 1890.

[TSmith1969]

Here's a handy inflation calculator, for those who want a simple across-the-board inflation adjustment. Just type in 1.00 and 2006 at the top and the year you want to convert to.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by TSmith1969

For the record, average attendance data is here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL.shtml


Scroll down half way to "Pitching Totals".
Attendance/Game is the last column on the right.
AL goes back to 1901 and NL to 1890.

You did not just do that!

TSmith1969 gets a cookie.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by TSmith1969

Here's a handy inflation calculator, for those who want a simple across-the-board inflation adjustment. Just type in 1.00 and 2006 at the top and the year you want to convert to.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

I had five methods of calculating the value of money in the days of yore. CPI is one of them.

http://eh.net/hmit/compare/

# The CPI is most often used to make comparisons partly because it is the series with which people are most familiar. This series tries to compare the cost of things the average household buys such as food, housing, transportation, medical services, etc. For earlier years, it is the most useful series for comparing the cost of consumer goods and services. It can be interpreted as how much money would you need today to buy an item in the year in question if it had changed in price the same as the average price change.

* Source notes for CPI

# The GDP deflator is similar to the CPI in that it is a measure of average prices. The "bundle" of goods and services here includes all things produced in the economy, not just consumer goods and services that are reflected in the CPI.

* Source notes for GDP

# The unskilled wage rate is good way to determine the relative cost of something in terms of the amount of work it would take to produce, or the relative time it would take to earn its cost. It can also be useful in comparing different wages over time. The unskilled wage is a more consistent measure than the average wage for making comparisons over time.

* Source notes for Unskilled Wage

# The GDP per capita is an index of the economy's average output per person and is closely correlated with the average income. It can be useful in comparing different incomes over time.

* Source notes for GDP

# The GDP is the market value of all goods and services produced in a year. Comparing an expenditure using this measure, tells you how much money in the comparable year would be the same percent of all output.

When I ran these through my spreadsheet, the only one that made me happy was GDP shares.

The spreadsheet I ultimately presented was 20% of the initial rough draft. At one point it was 35 megabytes.

Using CPI gives a superstar player a salary of $1.4 million in 1927. That did not make me happy.