Official Rolen/Cubby Player Rating Question Thread - Page 4

GoldenGlove · 06-30-2006, 07:14 PM

Who is complaining?

adichiara · 06-30-2006, 07:38 PM

well...

Quote:

As long as Betancourt is ranked as a Top 3 defensive shortstop in the league and JJ Putz has some of the top stuff rating in the league, I'm happy.

Just saying, its fixed easy enough once we have the rosters.

Willmore · 06-30-2006, 08:21 PM

I'm not complaining. In fact, if I disagree with some ratings, I'll change them myself.

I just want the players' ratings to be as accurate as possible. With the Mariners out of the spotlight, it might have been toiugh to notice them and the players that are on this team. And defense is the hardest thing to judge, so I figured I'd help out, and provide some small insight into the team.

tward13 · 06-30-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adichiara

well...

Just saying, its fixed easy enough once we have the rosters.

Since this thread was started by the roster creators so poeple can comment on the ratings, I'd say this was the appropriate place for his post.

adichiara · 07-01-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willmore

I'm not complaining. In fact, if I disagree with some ratings, I'll change them myself.

I just want the players' ratings to be as accurate as possible. With the Mariners out of the spotlight, it might have been toiugh to notice them and the players that are on this team. And defense is the hardest thing to judge, so I figured I'd help out, and provide some small insight into the team.

Fair enough, but some evidence would greatly help (I would think). If everyone went "Dont underestimate "X", he's really good." that probably wouldnt help.

Willmore · 07-01-2006, 01:31 AM

For Betancourt, I don't have statistical facts, because defense is almost impossible to translate into stats. However, if you talk to the scouts, and I've heard a few of their opinions, they all rave about Betancourt. Though I can say that he's batting about what is expected of him, and while he might improve, it's not expected of him.

Putz: 0.88 WHIP, 1.92 GB/FB (evidence of the splitter), 12.39 K/9 (stuff), 8.33 K/BB(vastly improved control), .294 BIPA (about average shows that he's no fluke).

Point is, Putz should be rated as high as Papelbon, Ryan, Nathan, Gagne and Rivera.

For Clement and Jones, stats are irrelevant. Clement is coming off a mid-season surgery and Jones is being challenged at a higher level, where despite putting good numbers, he's not batting to his potential.

I might say the same for Rob Johnson, our #2 catching prospect. Though he's in AAA, his bat is AA at best. His defense is further along than Clement for comparisons sake.

CubbyFan23 · 07-01-2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willmore

Point is, Putz should be rated as high as Papelbon, Ryan, Nathan, Gagne and Rivera.

Wait... what!?

Willmore · 07-01-2006, 02:25 AM

Putz is an all-star-caliber closer. Look at the stats. He is dominant against both lefties and righties, his 91-mph splitter is almost unhittable (ask Barry Bonds, David Ortiz or Manny) and the only reason why he's not likely to be an all-star this year is because Guardado started the season as closer and Hargrove stayed with him way too long.

In the past Putz has been a one-pitch pitcher with just his fastball, which explains the bad stats in the past. This year, with the splitter, he has been close to unhittable. And he has something that other closers are missing - the mentality to be a closer.

Maybe Putz is not in the neighborhood of Nathan or a healthy Gagne yet, but he is close to Ryan and Rivera.

adichiara · 07-01-2006, 02:37 AM

Putz is 29 years old and has 37 innings of dominance under his belt, 37 innings. He's had a nice run but he still has a ton to prove. Look at his career numbers.

Willmore · 07-01-2006, 02:54 AM

Did you read my post ?

Before this year he was a 1-pitch pitcher. And every major-leaguer can hit a fastball. This year, with the splitter, he has become dominant.

Oh yeah, and the "He's 29" argument doesn't cut it. Nathan was 28 and a struggling starter before he became one of the best closers in the game.

CubbyFan23 · 07-01-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willmore

Maybe Putz is not in the neighborhood of Nathan or a healthy Gagne yet, but he is close to Ryan and Rivera.

molarmite · 07-02-2006, 06:17 PM

Liriano better not be severely unde like in halofans roster set.

MorseMoose · 07-02-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

If you have any questions on Twins prospects, just give me a holla.

You know nothing about the Twins...give it up

. I'm the ultimate Twins fan on the board...ok, I'm probably not the ultimate...but I know a lot.

Willmore · 07-05-2006, 04:38 AM

How are you going to rate Roberto Petagine ?

He posted Matsui-like numbers in Japan and last year in AAA, he had a .327/.452/.635/1.087 line. Yet in the majors he never got a decent stretch of constant at bats, so his stats pretty much stink. This year, despite having perhaps the worst DH in baseball, in Everett, Hargrove simply refused to start Petagine.

I think he should be rated fairly highly. Somewhere along the lines of Lyle Overbay's current season - .298/.370/.512/.882.

What do you think ?

NomarHits400 · 07-05-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willmore

How are you going to rate Roberto Petagine ?

He posted Matsui-like numbers in Japan and last year in AAA, he had a .327/.452/.635/1.087 line. Yet in the majors he never got a decent stretch of constant at bats, so his stats pretty much stink. This year, despite having perhaps the worst DH in baseball, in Everett, Hargrove simply refused to start Petagine.

I think he should be rated fairly highly. Somewhere along the lines of Lyle Overbay's current season - .298/.370/.512/.882.

What do you think ?

Petagine was with the Sox last year- and he didn't get a chance there either....But if any of the ratings in the set bother you- as everyone has pointed out- simply change them yourself. I am sure everyone will be doing this to varying degrees- it's the biggest reason why Cubby/Erich will NEVER be able to please everyone- as I am sure they are already too well aware.

Wheele8 · 07-05-2006, 10:24 AM

In response to the Putz posts:

Major league batters will adjust to Putz now having 2 very good pitches. He definitely has a chance to continue to make further adjustments and stay ahead of hitters, but it's just as likely that this half season will be the best in his career. I'm a huge Red Sox fan, but in no way do I think Papelbon should be ranked up as high as the dominant closers that have shown consistent dominance over a period of years.

On Petagine:
Petagine could almost certainly put up an .800 OPS in the majors right now, but he doesn't have a position any longer, and he will not bat .298 with consistent playing time. There's a good number of minor league/foreign league veterans that would be productive given a chnace to play every day, but to over rank these guys could possibly throw the entire league out of wack.

CubbyFan23 · 07-05-2006, 11:36 AM

Petagine is rated very well, I believe he's starting at DH over Everett when the computer auto-compiles lineups.

Putz is rated with good potential, but his current ratings are average. I'm still not a solid believer yet although the splits do look awfully promising so far.

DBR · 07-05-2006, 03:42 PM

I know you have been using Pecota's for making the player ratings.... one thing on that though, I will use Jason Giambi as a example. One problem with them is they take in account players 3 year splits, and Jason Giambi as most of us know missed alot of the 2004 season, so when the Pecota projections came out, they were not good even though he has over 50 HR's in his last 150 games. Just wondering if you guys took that into consideration.

CubbyFan23 · 07-05-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBR

I know you have been using Pecota's for making the player ratings.... one thing on that though, I will use Jason Giambi as a example. One problem with them is they take in account players 3 year splits, and Jason Giambi as most of us know missed alot of the 2004 season, so when the Pecota projections came out, they were not good even though he has over 50 HR's in his last 150 games. Just wondering if you guys took that into consideration.

This season's stats were taken into consideration for rating adjustments.

jerrycapo · 07-06-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willmore

Putz is an all-star-caliber closer. Look at the stats. He is dominant against both lefties and righties, his 91-mph splitter is almost unhittable (ask Barry Bonds, David Ortiz or Manny)

Unfortunately, I don't have any of them on my speed dial. But I am going to venture a guess and say they all believe they can hit his splitter. To be sure though I will try and call them when I get home from work.

Seriously though. I am hoping Papelbon actually gets the endurance of a starter (slightly above average), so we have the choice of where to use him. Here are his stats from the minors:

Year Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV INN H R ER HR HBP BB SO
2004 A-Sarasota 12 7 2.64 24 24 2 0 0 129.2 97 43 38 6 7 43 153
2005 AA-Portland 5 2 2.48 14 14 0 0 0 87.0 59 28 24 9 5 23 83
2005 AAA-Pawtucket 1 2 2.93 7 4 0 0 1 27.2 21 9 9 2 1 3 27

While he has only shown it for half a season, I think his minor league numbers show he has pretty good ability to continue maybe not as good a path as he is on currently but still somewhere close.

I know we can always change the ratings when the set is released. But it is nice to hear other people's opinions on other players, especially ones who watch them on a regular basis. While I appreciate the friendly reminder, that public service announcement is no longer necessary. I believe we get the point. And for those who have not gotten that point they will never get it, so let them be anyway.

06-30-2006, 07:14 PM	#61 (permalink)
GoldenGlove Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 339	Who is complaining? __________________ ISBL - New York Yankees B.I.G. - Oakland Athletics TheMLB - Cleveland Indians

07-01-2006, 02:54 AM	#70 (permalink)
Willmore Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 54	Did you read my post ? Before this year he was a 1-pitch pitcher. And every major-leaguer can hit a fastball. This year, with the splitter, he has become dominant. Oh yeah, and the "He's 29" argument doesn't cut it. Nathan was 28 and a struggling starter before he became one of the best closers in the game. Last edited by Willmore : 07-01-2006 at 02:58 AM.

07-02-2006, 06:17 PM	#72 (permalink)
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,877	Liriano better not be severely unde like in halofans roster set. __________________ http://vmlb.allsimbaseball3.com/ From the wise mind of Davey Eckstein "Now all you need is a signature. A quote or initial, perhaps."

07-05-2006, 03:42 PM	#78 (permalink)
DBR Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 118	I know you have been using Pecota's for making the player ratings.... one thing on that though, I will use Jason Giambi as a example. One problem with them is they take in account players 3 year splits, and Jason Giambi as most of us know missed alot of the 2004 season, so when the Pecota projections came out, they were not good even though he has over 50 HR's in his last 150 games. Just wondering if you guys took that into consideration. __________________

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06-30-2006, 08:21 PM	#63 (permalink)
Willmore Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 54	I'm not complaining. In fact, if I disagree with some ratings, I'll change them myself. I just want the players' ratings to be as accurate as possible. With the Mariners out of the spotlight, it might have been toiugh to notice them and the players that are on this team. And defense is the hardest thing to judge, so I figured I'd help out, and provide some small insight into the team.

07-01-2006, 01:31 AM	#66 (permalink)
Willmore Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 54	For Betancourt, I don't have statistical facts, because defense is almost impossible to translate into stats. However, if you talk to the scouts, and I've heard a few of their opinions, they all rave about Betancourt. Though I can say that he's batting about what is expected of him, and while he might improve, it's not expected of him. Putz: 0.88 WHIP, 1.92 GB/FB (evidence of the splitter), 12.39 K/9 (stuff), 8.33 K/BB(vastly improved control), .294 BIPA (about average shows that he's no fluke). Point is, Putz should be rated as high as Papelbon, Ryan, Nathan, Gagne and Rivera. For Clement and Jones, stats are irrelevant. Clement is coming off a mid-season surgery and Jones is being challenged at a higher level, where despite putting good numbers, he's not batting to his potential. I might say the same for Rob Johnson, our #2 catching prospect. Though he's in AAA, his bat is AA at best. His defense is further along than Clement for comparisons sake.

07-01-2006, 02:25 AM	#68 (permalink)
Willmore Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 54	Putz is an all-star-caliber closer. Look at the stats. He is dominant against both lefties and righties, his 91-mph splitter is almost unhittable (ask Barry Bonds, David Ortiz or Manny) and the only reason why he's not likely to be an all-star this year is because Guardado started the season as closer and Hargrove stayed with him way too long. In the past Putz has been a one-pitch pitcher with just his fastball, which explains the bad stats in the past. This year, with the splitter, he has been close to unhittable. And he has something that other closers are missing - the mentality to be a closer. Maybe Putz is not in the neighborhood of Nathan or a healthy Gagne yet, but he is close to Ryan and Rivera.

07-01-2006, 02:37 AM	#69 (permalink)
adichiara Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 120	Putz is 29 years old and has 37 innings of dominance under his belt, 37 innings. He's had a nice run but he still has a ton to prove. Look at his career numbers.

07-05-2006, 04:38 AM	#74 (permalink)
Willmore Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 54	How are you going to rate Roberto Petagine ? He posted Matsui-like numbers in Japan and last year in AAA, he had a .327/.452/.635/1.087 line. Yet in the majors he never got a decent stretch of constant at bats, so his stats pretty much stink. This year, despite having perhaps the worst DH in baseball, in Everett, Hargrove simply refused to start Petagine. I think he should be rated fairly highly. Somewhere along the lines of Lyle Overbay's current season - .298/.370/.512/.882. What do you think ?

07-05-2006, 10:24 AM	#76 (permalink)
Wheele8 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 149	In response to the Putz posts: Major league batters will adjust to Putz now having 2 very good pitches. He definitely has a chance to continue to make further adjustments and stay ahead of hitters, but it's just as likely that this half season will be the best in his career. I'm a huge Red Sox fan, but in no way do I think Papelbon should be ranked up as high as the dominant closers that have shown consistent dominance over a period of years. On Petagine: Petagine could almost certainly put up an .800 OPS in the majors right now, but he doesn't have a position any longer, and he will not bat .298 with consistent playing time. There's a good number of minor league/foreign league veterans that would be productive given a chnace to play every day, but to over rank these guys could possibly throw the entire league out of wack.

07-05-2006, 11:36 AM	#77 (permalink)
CubbyFan23 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 1,366	Petagine is rated very well, I believe he's starting at DH over Everett when the computer auto-compiles lineups. Putz is rated with good potential, but his current ratings are average. I'm still not a solid believer yet although the splits do look awfully promising so far.