2007 Roster Set from Dark Cloud

[Melo]

dola,

37 minutes

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

No, they have not lost their court case. They lost at trial, and appealed. The appeal is pending.

It is the gathered legal advice of very well paid real corporate lawyers that ballplayer names and stats, if shipped without a MLB/MLBPA license, is a unacceptable that would destroy OOTP Dev and SI if MLB gets their adverse ruling overturned, and that anyone shipping with this sort of stuff is taking a Very Large Risk.

Horse bung.

"No, they have not lost their court case. They lost at trial" ??? Huh ?

Yes, they lost at trial. In October ( - in plenty of time to put together a '07 roster set).

MLB appealing means didly squat. It doesn't "put a hold" on the previous ruling.


And the well paid gathered legal advice was ... well, I'll just say that ..... there is NO WAY MLB wins this appeal. Fantasy baseball will live on, forever .... and players names & statistics will always be public.

Not a huge deal, just could've been a nice add to a great game. But IMO they dropped the ball, and did so figuring "we don't really need to, some modder will do it for us".

[bp_]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

MLB appealing means didly squat. It doesn't "put a hold" on the previous ruling.

This is correct. Seems like there has been plenty of misinformation on these boards about this. Still, it is up to SI if they want to dive into this an obviously they didn't.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

Not a huge deal, just could've been a nice add to a great game. But IMO they dropped the ball, and did so figuring "we don't really need to, some modder will do it for us".

This is what I don't get.

By saying "SI dropped the ball" are you saying that real rosters should be an easy "throw in" for SI, but they choose not to do so? If it is so easy, there would already be an updated roster set by some modder(s) and nobody would expect SI/Markus to do something they/he has never done before anyway.

I prefer now as I always have to let Markus/SI work on continued improvement on gameplay/AI etc before they devote the same resources to creating a roster set. I'm quite certain OOTP does not have the research team that a game like FM does to do that.

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by silvam14

This is what I don't get.

By saying "SI dropped the ball" are you saying that real rosters should be an easy "throw in" for SI, but they choose not to do so? If it is so easy, there would already be an updated roster set by some modder(s) and nobody would expect SI/Markus to do something they/he has never done before anyway.

I prefer now as I always have to let Markus/SI work on continued improvement on gameplay/AI etc before they devote the same resources to creating a roster set. I'm quite certain OOTP does not have the research team that a game like FM does to do that.

That, I can understand. SI didn't want to invest the time & choose to rather invest said time in game development. That SI would count on it's customers to improve the game in regards to rosters.

Personally, I think it's a bad move, and I think that a bigger % of their customer base uses current RL rosters than they think. But, that would be their move.

What irks me, is people saying/insinuating .. "it's illegal, they can't, it's undecided in the courts" - when that's just flat not true.

By all means, tell people that SI choose to invest their time differently. That's true, understandable, and acceptable (for now - I'm hoping that trend changes).

[The Outlaw]

OOTP has come with rosters before...well, sort of...it came with all the real stats/ratings for the players, but the names of the players and teams had to be changed...I believe it was ootp5 that did but it may have been 6...

So implying they have never done this before is incorrect, at least in part....

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

OOTP has come with rosters before...well, sort of...it came with all the real stats/ratings for the players, but the names of the players and teams had to be changed...I believe it was ootp5 that did but it may have been 6...

So implying they have never done this before is incorrect, at least in part....

So, you are saying that people who are looking for real rosters would settle for having to update every name in the game after they have matched up the stats? Ver 5 provided Minor League stats also?

[The Outlaw]

I am saying there are workarounds for the legal argument being put forth...that MLB player names and stats can't be included in the game.

And yes, inputting just the names would be a lot easier than what Erich is doing right now...especially if you could use external programs to do so...

and I believe someone would have released all the names by now so we wouldn't even be having this conversation...which means there would be a lot more satisfied people...

And it wasn't that hard matching up the stats/ratings...if I remember correctly, it even had birthplaces and birth dates all correct...

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

I am saying there are workarounds for the legal argument being put forth...that MLB player names and stats can't be included in the game.

And yes, inputting just the names would be a lot easier than what Erich is doing right now...especially if you could use external programs to do so...

and I believe someone would have released all the names by now so we wouldn't even be having this conversation...which means there would be a lot more satisfied people...

And it wasn't that hard matching up the stats/ratings...if I remember correctly, it even had birthplaces and birth dates all correct...

Fair enough, as far as the legal issue goes, I just don't think SI would chance it and I'm sure they have more corporate lawyers who are much more in the know than anyone here advising them so.

[chimanbj]

It's great that the biggest gripe about OOTP 2007 is not about the game at all! This whole roster debate is interesting. I wonder if someone could purchase a database from STATS, inc. and mkae a roster set from that?

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by chimanbj

It's great that the biggest gripe about OOTP 2007 is not about the game at all!

I agree, this version is the best one yet...and if rosters had been released on OD(via modder or SI), then we'd see far less disgruntled folk in the forums...even tho rosters were never promised by SI/Markus.

[eriqjaffe]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

OOTP has come with rosters before...well, sort of...it came with all the real stats/ratings for the players, but the names of the players and teams had to be changed...I believe it was ootp5 that did but it may have been 6...

So implying they have never done this before is incorrect, at least in part....

Ironically, those rosters were actually done by third-party modders specifically for inclusion in the game.

:themoreyouknow:

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

...even tho rosters were never promised by SI/Markus.

I think though, that this is the real problem. I believe that many of the customers here (myself not included) perceive an alliance, or connection between SI and the Mod makers. It was widely known that some on the beta team were using CubbyFan's 07 beta (which I'm using, and it's doing just fine for my purposes) and the other primary roster maker is a Moderator on this very forum. Like it or not, these sorts of things send mixed signals, which when coupled with people's expectations that things will be as they were in the past, make for disgruntled customers.

[CBLCardinals]

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Ironically, those rosters were actually done by third-party modders specifically for inclusion in the game.

:themoreyouknow:

yep - I know for fact OOTP6 was done this way. I created the roster set for Markus and he changed the player's name to fictional names for the in-game release. All stats/birthdays, etc were from real players.

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by chimanbj

It's great that the biggest gripe about OOTP 2007 is not about the game at all!

This is awesome, and very true .

Originally Posted by silvam14

I just don't think SI would chance it

aargh.

Take a chance, and what ? Do something completely legal ? That's not something real high on the "do something risky" list.

The legal argument of roster making holds no water. Bottom line is it was completely legal for SI to do. And the courts can't change the law, and then go back in time and nail companies for doing something that was legal at the time.

Big companies use real players & stats (ESPN, Yahoo, etc.), small companies do it and all kinds of companies in between. Where is the "risk".

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

I think though, that this is the real problem. I believe that many of the customers here (myself not included) perceive an alliance, or connection between SI and the Mod makers. It was widely known that some on the beta team were using CubbyFan's 07 beta (which I'm using, and it's doing just fine for my purposes) and the other primary roster maker is a Moderator on this very forum. Like it or not, these sorts of things send mixed signals, which when coupled with people's expectations that things will be as they were in the past, make for disgruntled customers.

I think this is spot on. Customers wrongly made assumptions. Hopefully, the current "cries" of a large part of OOTPs customer base will be considered on this issue in future versions.