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FHM 5 - General Discussion Talk about the latest & greatest FHM, officially licensed by the NHL!

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Old 05-13-2019, 01:21 PM   #1
JCourtney
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Arrow My Issues with Franchise Hockey Manager.

The problem with FHM5 is that there isn't enough data available to make coaching and tactics have any weight beyond just the initial setup.
The tactics you can set in the game are good against certain other tactics and have counters, etc. However, with no 2D match engine and with no kind of analytical feedback during the game, then you don't even know what the other team is using against you. There is just a massive disconnect for knowing what is going on during the game and even afterward. We don't technically need a 2D match engine, but we need at least some kind of feedback of an observable nature. Let us get feedback that a coach could determine throughout a game.

Let us see what offensive and defensive formations and tactics they are running during the game and let us make tactical changes. In Football Manager they provide this kind of feedback from your assistant coach, who suggests changes based on the current tactics on the other team. This kind of thing could be done until a proper 2D engine could be developed. As it stands the tactics are only good for picking the optimal choices for the strengths and weaknesses of your roster.

Also, there needs to be way more analytical feedback after the game beyond just a sheet lists just what the overall rating for each player was. I want to see analytical feedback that says like player X had multiple neutral zone turnovers, etc.

The UI needs to show the various lines and how they performed. I want to see at a glace all the lines and their performances. The UI doesn't do this currently and it makes doing line up adjustment difficult. There should be an after game UI element showing all the lines and their performances. The game could do a lot in the way of providing useful analytical feedback and data to help you make choices. If one of my players is listed as cold and I make some lineup adjustments and he is suddenly performing better, then the game should let me know that with feedback and or better UI.

Hopefully, FHM can continue to evolve and get better.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:51 PM   #2
geisterhome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCourtney View Post
The problem with FHM5 is that there isn't enough data available to make coaching and tactics have any weight beyond just the initial setup.
The tactics you can set in the game are good against certain other tactics and have counters, etc. However, with no 2D match engine and with no kind of analytical feedback during the game, then you don't even know what the other team is using against you. There is just a massive disconnect for knowing what is going on during the game and even afterward. We don't technically need a 2D match engine, but we need at least some kind of feedback of an observable nature. Let us get feedback that a coach could determine throughout a game.

Let us see what offensive and defensive formations and tactics they are running during the game and let us make tactical changes. In Football Manager they provide this kind of feedback from your assistant coach, who suggests changes based on the current tactics on the other team. This kind of thing could be done until a proper 2D engine could be developed. As it stands the tactics are only good for picking the optimal choices for the strengths and weaknesses of your roster.

Also, there needs to be way more analytical feedback after the game beyond just a sheet lists just what the overall rating for each player was. I want to see analytical feedback that says like player X had multiple neutral zone turnovers, etc.

The UI needs to show the various lines and how they performed. I want to see at a glace all the lines and their performances. The UI doesn't do this currently and it makes doing line up adjustment difficult. There should be an after game UI element showing all the lines and their performances. The game could do a lot in the way of providing useful analytical feedback and data to help you make choices. If one of my players is listed as cold and I make some lineup adjustments and he is suddenly performing better, then the game should let me know that with feedback and or better UI.

Hopefully, FHM can continue to evolve and get better.
Agree with your points, really like the ideas with lines, how awesome would that be!
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:48 PM   #3
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The post-match line up performance seems like it would be easy to implement, as it would just be a UI addition.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCourtney View Post
The problem with FHM5 is that there isn't enough data available to make coaching and tactics have any weight beyond just the initial setup.
The tactics you can set in the game are good against certain other tactics and have counters, etc. However, with no 2D match engine and with no kind of analytical feedback during the game, then you don't even know what the other team is using against you. There is just a massive disconnect for knowing what is going on during the game and even afterward. We don't technically need a 2D match engine, but we need at least some kind of feedback of an observable nature. Let us get feedback that a coach could determine throughout a game.

Let us see what offensive and defensive formations and tactics they are running during the game and let us make tactical changes. In Football Manager they provide this kind of feedback from your assistant coach, who suggests changes based on the current tactics on the other team. This kind of thing could be done until a proper 2D engine could be developed. As it stands the tactics are only good for picking the optimal choices for the strengths and weaknesses of your roster.

Also, there needs to be way more analytical feedback after the game beyond just a sheet lists just what the overall rating for each player was. I want to see analytical feedback that says like player X had multiple neutral zone turnovers, etc.

The UI needs to show the various lines and how they performed. I want to see at a glace all the lines and their performances. The UI doesn't do this currently and it makes doing line up adjustment difficult. There should be an after game UI element showing all the lines and their performances. The game could do a lot in the way of providing useful analytical feedback and data to help you make choices. If one of my players is listed as cold and I make some lineup adjustments and he is suddenly performing better, then the game should let me know that with feedback and or better UI.

Hopefully, FHM can continue to evolve and get better.

Actually it got worse, i agree with your points and last year coaching/tactics system was far superior in my opinion
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:31 PM   #5
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Would the developers be willing & able to provide a more detailed explanation and some context as to the process(es) involved in arriving at an individual game result and how it goes about apportioning player performance results in such away that the player Coach / G.M. can intelligently make use of?

I don’t expect the developers would want or be willing to lay bare all the grisly internal game processes and algorithms used in arriving at a match’s outcome but some deeper insight into how these variables are considered and subsequently factored into a games results, how they used to play off against the opponents own variables, if & how they are weighted, and at what frequency are they calculated during a match, would be welcome. It might also help go a long way towards dispelling the sense, that I just can’t shake, that as it stands now the game is simply a series on inter-connected spreadsheets that present the semblance of a robust & dynamic game engine underneath but which once you get under the surface simply randomly assigns game results based on nothing more than a simple ‘overall’ probability comparison calculation involving Team A versus Team B.

It we allow that that every time I put a team out on the ice for a match there are at least in theory some 620 individual attributes (encompassing 18 skaters, 2 goalies & 5 coaches) in play and that one must presume are in some fashion germane to the outcome of a match (or otherwise why include them), and all of which are further tweaked by such transient factors such as team strategies, specific line tactics, individual player roles, line chemistry, fatigue, training, morale, injuries, etc… well you get the point.

Providing the player first & foremost with an effective means to be able to discern the consequences that flow from their inputs, and to properly evaluate those consequences so as to provide the player with the ability to adjust their inputs both within a match and in overall roster construction is absolutely essential to the enjoyment of the game.

I appreciate that this view be more than a little harsh, but as just one example, when I read on another thread that the player Coach / G.M. has no way to change a roster players relationship with the G.M. as that has not been fleshed out yet. While I very much appreciate the honesty in the reply, I can’t help but wonder them what else under the hood & game engine hasn’t been fleshed out yet as well?

Right now, unfortunately the game feels a bit like a black hole, lots of interesting input but with little light coming back.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:40 AM   #6
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Excellent OP, this and improving user interface us what will take FHM onto the next level.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:24 PM   #7
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The one big "issue" or lack of feature, is the ability to play single games. To create a tournament between historical teams, or just have a one-off exhibition game between two teams. If I want to play the 60's Chicago vs a 80's Edmonton, I would have to create a season and wait for the schedule.

If this was incorporated, it would definitely be a buy for me.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven547 View Post
The one big "issue" or lack of feature, is the ability to play single games. To create a tournament between historical teams, or just have a one-off exhibition game between two teams. If I want to play the 60's Chicago vs a 80's Edmonton, I would have to create a season and wait for the schedule.

If this was incorporated, it would definitely be a buy for me.
It would be also nice to be able to "export" your current team in modern-day game and set up a one-off game or series against historical ones.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCourtney View Post
The problem with FHM5 is that there isn't enough data available to make coaching and tactics have any weight beyond just the initial setup.
The tactics you can set in the game are good against certain other tactics and have counters, etc. However, with no 2D match engine and with no kind of analytical feedback during the game, then you don't even know what the other team is using against you. There is just a massive disconnect for knowing what is going on during the game and even afterward. We don't technically need a 2D match engine, but we need at least some kind of feedback of an observable nature. Let us get feedback that a coach could determine throughout a game.

Let us see what offensive and defensive formations and tactics they are running during the game and let us make tactical changes. In Football Manager they provide this kind of feedback from your assistant coach, who suggests changes based on the current tactics on the other team. This kind of thing could be done until a proper 2D engine could be developed. As it stands the tactics are only good for picking the optimal choices for the strengths and weaknesses of your roster.

Also, there needs to be way more analytical feedback after the game beyond just a sheet lists just what the overall rating for each player was. I want to see analytical feedback that says like player X had multiple neutral zone turnovers, etc.

The UI needs to show the various lines and how they performed. I want to see at a glace all the lines and their performances. The UI doesn't do this currently and it makes doing line up adjustment difficult. There should be an after game UI element showing all the lines and their performances. The game could do a lot in the way of providing useful analytical feedback and data to help you make choices. If one of my players is listed as cold and I make some lineup adjustments and he is suddenly performing better, then the game should let me know that with feedback and or better UI.

Hopefully, FHM can continue to evolve and get better.
Excellent post - I totally agree with all of this.

I've enjoyed playing FHM from FHM3 onwards. However, because of the absence of this type of feedback I now just set my team up at the start of the season and just sim automatically through the entire season with next to no intervention.... and I'm beginning to get bored with that.

The breadth of FHM is impressive - leagues from all over the world, historic games etc - but it really needs more depth so that you can get more immersed with the tactics and adjustments and make meaningful choices based on the sorts of analytics mentioned in this post.

The game's potential is huge but it really needs to develop in these ways for me to spend money on FHM6 and beyond.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:34 AM   #10
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In many points you're right. Though there is still space to make your custom tactics work. At least I see improvement over the default behaviour.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by scotty View Post
I've enjoyed playing FHM from FHM3 onwards. However, because of the absence of this type of feedback I now just set my team up at the start of the season and just sim automatically through the entire season with next to no intervention.... and I'm beginning to get bored with that.

The breadth of FHM is impressive - leagues from all over the world, historic games etc - but it really needs more depth so that you can get more immersed with the tactics and adjustments and make meaningful choices based on the sorts of analytics mentioned in this post.
.

Good points, I'm also simming through seasons once I have my tactic set up, mostly I'm just adjusting when I ran into injuries.
We need more feed back from the game about what is working and what isn't. Which lines are clicking. Some scouting reports not only about players but also other teams tactics, weaknesses, strength etc., that being said I'm not a huge fan of the current pregame screen, it could use an overhaul and some extra info.
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