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Old 05-15-2019, 10:34 PM   #1
MorrisButtermaker
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I have a question about the design philosophy of OOTP Baseball.

I have a question about the design philosophy of OOTP Baseball. I have been told that it is by design that with players who get imported as historical free agents into historical AAA leagues for the same season it is intended that such players will not always come in with the same overall ratings even if they are created under the same set of variables and parameters. I have found that even if I import a player in who is also automatically created as part of the free agent pool by the game/league the imported player can have a radically different overall rating from the automatically game generated version. I think one of the most appealing aspects of OOTP Baseball is that it allows for historical replays that differ from reality but not to a degree that is beyond historical plausibility. If players imported in as historical free agents do not always come in with the same ratings is seems that this entire aspect of the simulation is thrown off. I understand that it would be impossible to research every pitch thrown by every pitcher available in the simulation. However, unless I am missing something, I think consistency in ratings would be possible. In fact, if player’s ratings are supposed to be based on the actual performance of a player on the field, I can’t understand why this consistency would not have been designed into the game. May I ask if someone can explain to me what the aim of the designers is as it pertains to the issues I raise in this post?
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:53 PM   #2
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when you import a player individually into the game much of the context for that players stats is missing. when the game imports the same player much less of the context is unavailable.

many minor league player attributes are randomly generated, like pitch repertoire and the like.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:47 PM   #3
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therefore...

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Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
when you import a player individually into the game much of the context for that players stats is missing. when the game imports the same player much less of the context is unavailable.

many minor league player attributes are randomly generated, like pitch repertoire and the like.
How much do stats matter on the AAA level when a player is imported into the simulation? Do the stats inform the randomly generated attributes?

Am I correct to assume that this means the simulation is not really meant to be played at the level of the minor leagues and the minor leagues are included only because of their interplay with the majors?

I assume that although OOTP rates the Negro Leagues as a AAA league, it gives Negro Leagues players the MLB treatment as far as attributes go. Might the same be done with the AAA leagues in a future version of the game?

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Old 05-17-2019, 01:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisButtermaker View Post
How much do stats matter on the AAA level when a player is imported into the simulation? 100% Do the stats inform the randomly generated attributes? No

Am I correct to assume that this means the simulation is not really meant to be played at the level of the minor leagues and the minor leagues are included only because of their interplay with the majors? No

I assume that although OOTP rates the Negro Leagues as a AAA league, it gives Negro Leagues players the MLB treatment as far as attributes go. No Might the same be done with the AAA leagues in a future version of the game?
The information is not available at this time in most cases.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:58 PM   #5
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The information is not available at this time in most cases.
Thank you for all the time you have taken in responding to my inquiries. What I am struggling to understand is that if stats are so important how is it that it is the randomly generated attributes that explain why I have seen as much as a 50 point swing (or range difference) in overall rating for the same historical free agent I imported into a league for the same season and under all the same variables and parameters. May I ask you give me just a little insight into what does inform the randomly generated attributes or how the engine comes up with them? Did you mean “No, your assumption is wrong” or “the game is not intended to be played on the minor league level”
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:03 PM   #6
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in my test leagues when the game imports a minor league player they have consistent ratings

if you import a single (or married) player by hand using the player importer they have generically similar ratings but they can be somewhat different in my experience. Once again it depends on the context.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:58 PM   #7
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in my test leagues when the game imports a minor league player they have consistent ratings

if you import a single (or married) player by hand using the player importer they have generically similar ratings but they can be somewhat different in my experience. Once again it depends on the context.
I was only referring to historical free agents. Your reply makes me think I have some sort of bug in my version of the simulation. I contacted customer support about this possibility 14 days ago on Monday. A ticket was opened but I have not gotten an answer back. I think someone forgot about me.

Ticket ID: 26536
Subject: I am having major problems with the game
Department: Out of the Park Baseball
Type: Issue
Status: Open
Priority: Medium

Since my ticket was given a "medium" priority classification, I can't imagine what would merit a "high" priority.

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Old 06-06-2019, 08:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MorrisButtermaker View Post
I was only referring to historical free agents. Your reply makes me think I have some sort of bug in my version of the simulation. I contacted customer support about this possibility 14 days ago on Monday. A ticket was opened but I have not gotten an answer back. I think someone forgot about me.

Ticket ID: 26536
Subject: I am having major problems with the game
Department: Out of the Park Baseball
Type: Issue
Status: Open
Priority: Medium

Since my ticket was given a "medium" priority classification, I can't imagine what would merit a "high" priority.
It is now 31 days and counting.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisButtermaker View Post
........ However, unless I am missing something, I think consistency in ratings would be possible. In fact, if player’s ratings are supposed to be based on the actual performance of a player on the field, I can’t understand why this consistency would not have been designed into the game. May I ask if someone can explain to me what the aim of the designers is as it pertains to the issues I raise in this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisButtermaker View Post
I was only referring to historical free agents. Your reply makes me think I have some sort of bug in my version of the simulation.

Subject: I am having major problems with the game
See this isn’t a bug, let alone a “major” problem, but rather randomness.

They’re remarkable similar players, but they’re not the SAME player, much like having twins that have two different personalities, weight issues, other differences.

Also, since we’re talking baseball, what about lineup protection - like Mickey Mantle hitting 54 HRs in1961 and having ZERO IBBs for the year.
What about balance between L, R, and S hitters in the lineups.
Then there is a moral function where if a team sucks chemistry gets trashed.

So, there’s a whole lot more to this than looking at who your importing.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:29 AM   #10
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imagine you were a butter maker and every time you churn the milk comes from a set of randomly different cows who had similar but randomly different diets. you will always wind up with butter but it isn't the exact same butter as the last time you churned.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:54 AM   #11
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You point is well taken but a small correction, it was Maris with zero IBB with 61 home runs in 1961 while Mantle had about 10 IBB.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:06 AM   #12
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You point is well taken but a small correction, it was Maris with zero IBB with 61 home runs in 1961 while Mantle had about 10 IBB.
Sir, you are correct. See what happens when you go by memory?
My bad.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:37 PM   #13
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Bad News Bears

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imagine you were a butter maker and every time you churn the milk comes from a set of randomly different cows who had similar but randomly different diets. you will always wind up with butter but it isn't the exact same butter as the last time you churned.
I am just a fan of the original Bad News Bears. Morris Buttermaker was the coach.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:38 PM   #14
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I was only referring to historical free agents. Your reply makes me think I have some sort of bug in my version of the simulation. I contacted customer support about this possibility 14 days ago on Monday. A ticket was opened but I have not gotten an answer back. I think someone forgot about me.

Ticket ID: 26536
Subject: I am having major problems with the game
Department: Out of the Park Baseball
Type: Issue
Status: Open
Priority: Medium

Since my ticket was given a "medium" priority classification, I can't imagine what would merit a "high" priority.
It is now 41 days and counting. I just got an email asking me if the ticket can be closed since I have not been heard from in 216 hours.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:40 PM   #15
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Hwy?

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See this isn’t a bug, let alone a “major” problem, but rather randomness.

They’re remarkable similar players, but they’re not the SAME player, much like having twins that have two different personalities, weight issues, other differences.

Also, since we’re talking baseball, what about lineup protection - like Mickey Mantle hitting 54 HRs in1961 and having ZERO IBBs for the year.
What about balance between L, R, and S hitters in the lineups.
Then there is a moral function where if a team sucks chemistry gets trashed.

So, there’s a whole lot more to this than looking at who your importing.
If ratings are based on player performance during a season why would there be such major randomness?
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:51 AM   #16
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It is now 41 days and counting. I just got an email asking me if the ticket can be closed since I have not been heard from in 216 hours.
Support has no information for you on this that Spritze doesn't have. What we did to reply to the ticket originally was ask him to chat with you, like he has been. He runs the OOTP historical db, and we're not going to be able to add anything beyond what he can explain, his knowledge in that area is unsurpassed.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:45 PM   #17
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This guess the joke's on me.

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Support has no information for you on this that Spritze doesn't have. What we did to reply to the ticket originally was ask him to chat with you, like he has been. He runs the OOTP historical db, and we're not going to be able to add anything beyond what he can explain, his knowledge in that area is unsurpassed.
This is news to me. On June 7th I got an email from Alex. It read as follows: "Hey, My sincerest apologies about the delay. I did receive all of your saved games on the google drive and am slowly trying to piece together what you have been seeing. I'll try to get you a detailed review by Sunday with hopefully some info that will either resolve the issue or allow us to try out fixes. It's just slow going because I do have to review all of your league settings and attempt to create the same situations you were referencing with loading and importing differences.

I'll be back in touch by Sunday at the latest with more information about what I find and the options we have.

Thanks
Alex"

I guess the jokes on me because I was waiting to get an email back from Alex. I just tonight checked this thread and saw this message. It has been 66 days since I first contacted customer support. Not cool.

Last edited by MorrisButtermaker; 07-11-2019 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrisButtermaker View Post
This is news to me. On June 7th I got an email from Alex. It read as follows: "Hey, My sincerest apologies about the delay. I did receive all of your saved games on the google drive and am slowly trying to piece together what you have been seeing. I'll try to get you a detailed review by Sunday with hopefully some info that will either resolve the issue or allow us to try out fixes. It's just slow going because I do have to review all of your league settings and attempt to create the same situations you were referencing with loading and importing differences.

I'll be back in touch by Sunday at the latest with more information about what I find and the options we have.

Thanks
Alex"

I guess the jokes on me because I was waiting to get an email back from Alex. I just tonight checked this thread and saw this message. It has been 66 days since I first contacted customer support. Not cool.
We likely sent you more messages, but we've had some major issues with our support system, with emails both to and from us not being received, as referred to here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=305065

They were out of our control, but we're really sorry for the hassle all the same.

We're in the process of moving to a new support portal, which should straighten things out.

However as I mentioned, in this specific case, Spritze is the best place to get answers and in my recollection we'd asked him to reach out to you. Even if we didn;t, he found you anyway.

So even if you didn't get the emailed replies, his responding here is the best possible reply to your ticket, as he's the go-to source for any historical db questions and has the most knowledge of the subject of anyone around.
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
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We likely sent you more messages, but we've had some major issues with our support system, with emails both to and from us not being received, as referred to here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=305065

They were out of our control, but we're really sorry for the hassle all the same.

We're in the process of moving to a new support portal, which should straighten things out.

However as I mentioned, in this specific case, Spritze is the best place to get answers and in my recollection we'd asked him to reach out to you. Even if we didn;t, he found you anyway.

So even if you didn't get the emailed replies, his responding here is the best possible reply to your ticket, as he's the go-to source for any historical db questions and has the most knowledge of the subject of anyone around.
Does this mean no person is willing to look at my game files and do what Alex promised?
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:47 AM   #20
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Does this mean no person is willing to look at my game files and do what Alex promised?
What I've been trying to explain, and maybe doing poorly, is that we've already done that, and there's no issue there for us to fix.

It was just a matter of how the game and database actually works, which folks in this thread been describing to you.

Now you might think this is less than optimal design and hope we change it in the future, but from what we can see as of now, this isn't a technical issue, it's simply a matter of how the game and db is currently designed to work.
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