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Old 08-15-2019, 12:34 AM   #1
Badnewsgoonies
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There is way too much complaining about p2w players

Pretty simple just like the title says I’m very surprised at the amount of posts freaking out about prefect league and being shocked at OP teams. This is a gacha games just like nearly every mobile game or card based sports game. If you don’t want to pay that’s fine but don’t be shocked when others choose otherwise lol. Plus they do fund the game doesn't really exist without them.

Mainly posting this because I was hoping for actual threads comparing players or discussing strategy here not just complaints they can’t win perfect league world seriers. That’s literally the end game it’s not easy to achieve. For the record I think this game does a pretty good job at keeping the gap somewhat close between f2p players and p2w. Maybe I’ve had some lucky pulls but my team is worth roughly 1.2 mil PP and I’m f2p (I actually spent a bunch on perfect team 19 but ended up with a much worse team).

Which leads me to my last point which is if you are f2p you need to be lucky. But you need oppunities to even get lucky in the first place... which means pulling players from card packs. I’ve seen a lot of ppl saying it’s not worth it and better off just buying players from auction but that’ll lead you nowhere. If you want to succeed you need to wait it out until you get a good pull (someone worth 100k-200k) then you can get a couple of decent players with a portion of the PP and you use the rest on card packs. Even if you aren’t super lucky again you take the time and acution off the decent value cards for more PP which you use for CARD PACKS not saving for a 20k auction player. You need the packs to give you someone great otherwise your stuck with little resources. This is a cycle that you repeat consently farming points for more packs and using what you get for more points (while grabbing good players on huge pull sales).

Anyways don’t complain about people who pay you chooose not to so now work at it and try to beat them the best thing about baseball is you never know how a game will turn out.

Also I would suggest not buying gold packs because you aren't looking for decent players you need great ones. Missing out on four other packs is tough you need as many pulls as possible. The exception would be if you are in iron/bronze and want to jump start your team but really there are live diamond cards out there for under 5k which are more useful.

P.P.S The collections missions have spiked the price of so many cards it's been great value for selling (and obviously very annoying for completing the missons). Regardless bronze cards going for 200-500 (a few well above 3k), silvers easily selling for 1k and gold cards with an old average value of 3k going for 8-10k has made life much easier for getting PP and should be taken to full advantage.

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Old 08-15-2019, 01:42 AM   #2
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There are literally thousands of posts discussing player strategy and league stats on a very active F2P league. Sometimes, a couple people who are not usually active in the community get frustrated with not winning and make forum posts complaining about it. Maybe annoying, but it's not some epidemic in the community.

And pack EV doesn't work like that. The pack EV is negative and doesn't care if you've been on a losing streak, so as FTP players if you don't get lucky immediately you're very likely to have blown a ton of PP on nothing. There are lots of people who have chained pack opens and done writeups on the content, both on here and reddit. And basically, unless you have a ton of time and get very lucky to hit high value historical diamonds and historical perfects (especially early in your streak), you're absolutely not better off opening packs.

To the people who have a get rich quick scheme like yourself who might be biased by their own experiences ("Open packs and win the lottery! It worked for me and it can work for you!"), I say to actually run the probabilities. You can chart the prices of the market. You can assign appropriate values. You can calculate the statistics; it's all right there. allenciox made a decent effort the other day, even using basic simulations, but their sample size of 250 packs was still probably far, far too small to gauge the proper pack EV. Even if you accept their optimistic pack EV number of 960 PP (which requires a ton of time to recouperate and is very highly skewed, even if you take it at face value), then only a small fraction of players, even those who open hundreds of packs, will get even close to that number because the EV is so skewed by high value pulls.

There's a famous betting scheme that this stategy you're employing reminds me of: Martingale betting. The basic idea is that it's possible to construct a betting strategy such that as long as you don't go on a huge losing streak, you'll constantly make money. The problem is that if you lose a ton in a row, you'll go broke, and people are intuitively really bad at estimating the probability of long losing streaks. This strategy seems like a good idea until you inevitably hit a bad streak, which will eventually overcome your profits because the expected value is not on your side in the long run. And the same idea applies here.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:56 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies View Post
Pretty simple just like the title says Iím very surprised at the amount of posts freaking out about prefect league and being shocked at OP teams. This is a gacha games just like nearly every mobile game or card based sports game. If you donít want to pay thatís fine but donít be shocked when others choose otherwise lol. Plus they do fund the game doesn't really exist without them.

Mainly posting this because I was hoping for actual threads comparing players or discussing strategy here not just complaints they canít win perfect league world seriers. Thatís literally the end game itís not easy to achieve. For the record I think this game does a pretty good job at keeping the gap somewhat close between f2p players and p2w. Maybe Iíve had some lucky pulls but my team is worth roughly 1.2 mil PP and Iím f2p (I actually spent a bunch on perfect team 19 but ended up with a much worse team).

Which leads me to my last point which is if you are f2p you need to be lucky. But you need oppunities to even get lucky in the first place... which means pulling players from card packs. Iíve seen a lot of ppl saying itís not worth it and better off just buying players from auction but thatíll lead you nowhere. If you want to succeed you need to wait it out until you get a good pull (someone worth 100k-200k) then you can get a couple of decent players with a portion of the PP and you use the rest on card packs. Even if you arenít super lucky again you take the time and acution off the decent value cards for more PP which you use for CARD PACKS not saving for a 20k auction player. You need the packs to give you someone great otherwise your stuck with little resources. This is a cycle that you repeat consently farming points for more packs and using what you get for more points (while grabbing good players on huge pull sales).

Anyways donít complain about people who pay you chooose not to so now work at it and try to beat them the best thing about baseball is you never know how a game will turn out.

Also I would suggest not buying gold packs because you aren't looking for decent players you need great ones. Missing out on four other packs is tough you need as many pulls as possible. The exception would be if you are in iron/bronze and want to jump start your team but really there are live diamond cards out there for under 5k which are more useful.

P.P.S The collections missions have spiked the price of so many cards it's been great value for selling (and obviously very annoying for completing the missons). Regardless bronze cards going for 200-500 (a few well above 3k), silvers easily selling for 1k and gold cards with an old average value of 3k going for 8-10k has made life much easier for getting PP and should be taken to full advantage.
I think the majority of us are grateful to the whales for supporting the game. Some of us have gotten together and formed ftp/nftp leagues that are really competitive. That way the whales can have their fun and so can we.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by QuantaCondor View Post
There are literally thousands of posts discussing player strategy and league stats on a very active F2P league. Sometimes, a couple people who are not usually active in the community get frustrated with not winning and make forum posts complaining about it. Maybe annoying, but it's not some epidemic in the community.

And pack EV doesn't work like that. The pack EV is negative and doesn't care if you've been on a losing streak, so as FTP players if you don't get lucky immediately you're very likely to have blown a ton of PP on nothing. There are lots of people who have chained pack opens and done writeups on the content, both on here and reddit. And basically, unless you have a ton of time and get very lucky to hit high value historical diamonds and historical perfects (especially early in your streak), you're absolutely not better off opening packs.

To the people who have a get rich quick scheme like yourself who might be biased by their own experiences ("Open packs and win the lottery! It worked for me and it can work for you!"), I say to actually run the probabilities. You can chart the prices of the market. You can assign appropriate values. You can calculate the statistics; it's all right there. allenciox made a decent effort the other day, even using basic simulations, but their sample size of 250 packs was still probably far, far too small to gauge the proper pack EV. Even if you accept their optimistic pack EV number of 960 PP (which requires a ton of time to recouperate and is very highly skewed, even if you take it at face value), then only a small fraction of players, even those who open hundreds of packs, will get even close to that number because the EV is so skewed by high value pulls.

There's a famous betting scheme that this stategy you're employing reminds me of: Martingale betting. The basic idea is that it's possible to construct a betting strategy such that as long as you don't go on a huge losing streak, you'll constantly make money. The problem is that if you lose a ton in a row, you'll go broke, and people are intuitively really bad at estimating the probability of long losing streaks. This strategy seems like a good idea until you inevitably hit a bad streak, which will eventually overcome your profits because the expected value is not on your side in the long run. And the same idea applies here.
Well for starters it's not a get rich quick scheme it's just simply currency farming there isn't any other real way to do it except the little bit you earn from games. You need to try to get the most out of your cards via auction to salvage back some of those lost PP.

Also never said just keep pulling cause eventually you will hit lol (side note it's not like winning the lottery lmao the odds aren't that bad). What I said was the only way a f2p can amass large amounts of PP is to get a huge pull so yeah until you get that your out of luck and will not have much of a chance to improve your team. Buying a card off auction for 40k is fine but do you understand how hard 40k is to collect you are making yourself broke regardless you just have one good position player now.

Long story short I know what gamblers fallacy is but that's irrelevant to gachas where the only way to even play is through the currency you get by playing lol
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:20 AM   #5
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:31 AM   #6
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Also if the ev of a pack is 960 then that's dope even if its lower that's fine the remaining value you get back through the seasons game earnings (I did say invest some of the PP in decent players not just 100% dump in cards). Hell you could make a very good team for under 80k if you stick to live cards.

Long story short ofc you can be unlucky and end up with a decent pull after hundreds of pulls if that's the case it sucks for you lol. But you have zero chance to to get a good team without packs
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:59 AM   #7
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Also if the ev of a pack is 960 then that's dope even if its lower that's fine the remaining value you get back through the seasons game earnings
Yikes. Please promise me you will never gamble real cash.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:12 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies View Post
Pretty simple just like the title says Iím very surprised at the amount of posts freaking out about prefect league and being shocked at OP teams. This is a gacha games just like nearly every mobile game or card based sports game. If you donít want to pay thatís fine but donít be shocked when others choose otherwise lol. Plus they do fund the game doesn't really exist without them.
Correct.

Quote:
Mainly posting this because I was hoping for actual threads comparing players or discussing strategy here not just complaints they canít win perfect league world seriers. Thatís literally the end game itís not easy to achieve. For the record I think this game does a pretty good job at keeping the gap somewhat close between f2p players and p2w. Maybe Iíve had some lucky pulls but my team is worth roughly 1.2 mil PP and Iím f2p (I actually spent a bunch on perfect team 19 but ended up with a much worse team).
There are lots of threads like this.

Quote:
Which leads me to my last point which is if you are f2p you need to be lucky. But you need oppunities to even get lucky in the first place... which means pulling players from card packs. Iíve seen a lot of ppl saying itís not worth it and better off just buying players from auction but thatíll lead you nowhere. If you want to succeed you need to wait it out until you get a good pull (someone worth 100k-200k) then you can get a couple of decent players with a portion of the PP and you use the rest on card packs. Even if you arenít super lucky again you take the time and acution off the decent value cards for more PP which you use for CARD PACKS not saving for a 20k auction player. You need the packs to give you someone great otherwise your stuck with little resources. This is a cycle that you repeat consently farming points for more packs and using what you get for more points (while grabbing good players on huge pull sales).
A five year old understands math better than this.

Quote:
Anyways donít complain about people who pay you chooose not to so now work at it and try to beat them the best thing about baseball is you never know how a game will turn out.

Also I would suggest not buying gold packs because you aren't looking for decent players you need great ones. Missing out on four other packs is tough you need as many pulls as possible. The exception would be if you are in iron/bronze and want to jump start your team but really there are live diamond cards out there for under 5k which are more useful.
Yes, gold packs are awful value.

Quote:
P.P.S The collections missions have spiked the price of so many cards it's been great value for selling (and obviously very annoying for completing the missons). Regardless bronze cards going for 200-500 (a few well above 3k), silvers easily selling for 1k and gold cards with an old average value of 3k going for 8-10k has made life much easier for getting PP and should be taken to full advantage.
True, missions have increased the expected value of a pack by boosting the price on some cards.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:20 AM   #9
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But you have zero chance to to get a good team without packs
My current best lineup is:

100 josh gibson/100 bench
100 gehrig
100 jackie robinson
97 alex rodriguez (waiting on 100 wagner to show up)
97 brooks robinson
99 rickey henderson
100 live trout
99 ruth
100 ted williams

96 willie mays as utility OF and ken caminiti + royce lewis as utility IF

Still some upgrades I want but I'd say it's "good"

I have another 800K points in flux currently working on the pitching staff.

I have spent no points on packs and just $15 at the start of the game. My best pulls from the free challenge mode packs is one ****ty live diamond and a few golds. All of this is thru being disciplined with points and aggressively working the market. I never overpaid for specific players, I take the best deal where I can find it and flip the player for profit later.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:24 AM   #10
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Let me clear something up.

I can't speak for everyone but I think I share some thoughts with a few others that post about the whales.

We DO NOT have any ill will against players with money. Hell, if I had $1000 I didn't need, I'd maybe do the same thing - at least once to enjoy the power.

What WE DO wish to see is something that will extend our enjoyment of the game from 5 months to a full year. On average, for an F2P player, it will take 4-6 months to find yourself in Perfect, or close. If we had all the time in the world, we could spend 24/7 twisting every little detail to our advantage and maybe compete with the whales, but most of us simply don't have that kind of time.

Although some of our posts come off aggressive, I truly believe what we're really looking for are OPTIONS. Maybe play 4-5 months building our team(s), collecting cards, AND entering tournaments with our "less than perfect cards" - then spending the second half of the year completing card collections and entering tournaments. I'm hoping some tournaments will limit entries to (for example) bronze or silver cards. We can ALL afford those cards, so the key to winning will be strategic rather than monetary.

I understand the business model, which leads to understanding that Whales finance the game. I wouldn't want to do anything that would limit their success - BUT - it would be nice if us "non-Whales" enjoyed the game just as much - simply in a different way.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:26 AM   #11
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It depends on the rewards from the tournament, if they are enticing enough then the price of the best bronze/silver/etc will skyrocket. They will essentially just be new missions to collect the best cards in a certain category.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:30 AM   #12
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It depends on the rewards from the tournament, if they are enticing enough then the price of the best bronze/silver/etc will skyrocket. They will essentially just be new missions to collect the best cards in a certain category.
Agreed, but the Devs could manage that. Tournaments based on a specific level of cards should have a lesser reward than tournaments that require higher valued cards to start with. Balancing the rewards is just as important as balancing the tournament concept.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:34 AM   #13
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In theory yes. However they tried to do that for missions and you still see required cards price-fixed at 300 points when you need five of them just for a single standard pack lol.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:40 AM   #14
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My current best lineup is:

100 josh gibson/100 bench
100 gehrig
100 jackie robinson
97 alex rodriguez (waiting on 100 wagner to show up)
97 brooks robinson
99 rickey henderson
100 live trout
99 ruth
100 ted williams

96 willie mays as utility OF and ken caminiti + royce lewis as utility IF

Still some upgrades I want but I'd say it's "good"

I have another 800K points in flux currently working on the pitching staff.

I have spent no points on packs and just $15 at the start of the game. My best pulls from the free challenge mode packs is one ****ty live diamond and a few golds. All of this is thru being disciplined with points and aggressively working the market. I never overpaid for specific players, I take the best deal where I can find it and flip the player for profit later.
How? Your team alone is worth over 1.3 mil and you have 800k on top? Even if you play the auction house finding lower priced cards is pretty tough. Even if you found for example a 100k card going for 80k and were able to then resell it for 110k you get rekt by the 10% seller fee. You made a profit of like 19k. But that scenario is pretty rare from what Iíve seen I donít understand how you can do it enough times to earn over 1 mil. Plus when you buy cards for cheap you hurt their average sale price for the week making it even harder to resell for profit.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:43 AM   #15
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In theory yes. However they tried to do that for missions and you still see required cards price-fixed at 300 points when you need five of them just for a single standard pack lol.
But, 300 points is basically $.30 If I have to buy 25 $.30 cards to build a successful bronze team, that's $7.50 instead of $1000.

That said, if prices double or triple in this example, all bets are off - but if the Whales ultimately have unlimited funds and want to control the Tournaments as well, then the rest of us will go back to the Classic version - or find something we can afford.

Rich people buy Yachts, Poor people buy rowboats.

(edited because I haven't had my coffee yet lol)
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:43 AM   #16
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Yikes. Please promise me you will never gamble real cash.
I mean 960 ev from 1k packs is a lot better then most loot box games though I could be wrong I guess.

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Old 08-15-2019, 09:47 AM   #17
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How? Your team alone is worth over 1.3 mil and you have 800k on top? Even if you play the auction house finding lower priced cards is pretty tough. Even if you found for example a 100k card going for 80k and were able to then resell it for 110k you get rekt by the 10% seller fee. You made a profit of like 19k. But that scenario is pretty rare from what I’ve seen I don’t understand how you can do it enough times to earn over 1 mil. Plus when you buy cards for cheap you hurt their average sale price for the week making it even harder to resell for profit.
Well I got a big jump from the live upgrades. It took like two months for people to really understand the dynamics of live cards.

I was buying up 99 matt chapmans and rendons at the beginning for as low as 5K each since they aren't very useful players in the game, but very few people seemed to realize that with one good real life week they become worth 20K in quicksell value. That was nearly a 200K injection in points just from those guys. Kept doing it for all the other eventual perfect upgrades as well as the 88/89 rated golds. Had a small army of kris bryants lol. You also used to easily be able to buy a high live diamond for 6K and sell it for 8K/9K in a couple hours but now the market is more flooded and people are wise to potential tier jumps.

For historicals, just lots of patience. You would be shocked at how often someone will eventually overpay by 50% or more for a card. In your example 20K is a nice profit, and like in the real world the more money you have the more money you can make because you can invest that 100K points into more cards and do it again.

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Old 08-15-2019, 09:56 AM   #18
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But, 300 points is basically $.30 If I have to buy 25 $.30 cards to build a successful bronze team, that's $7.50 instead of $1000.

That said, if prices double or triple in this example, all bets are off - but if the Whales ultimately have unlimited funds and want to control the Tournaments as well, then the rest of us will go back to the Classic version - or find something we can afford.

Rich people buy Yachts, Poor people buy rowboats.

(edited because I haven't had my coffee yet lol)
Right that wouldn't be too bad, I was just saying that people paid way more to finish a mission than the value of the reward so you can expect the same for tournaments whatever the prize ends up being.

I do remember hearing that there would be a limit on how many tournaments you can be entered in, so perhaps that is what would protect the lower-tier ones from whales with the best possible American-born live AL silver team.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:58 AM   #19
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For historicals, just lots of patience. You would be shocked at how often someone will eventually overpay by 50% or more for a card. In your example 20K is a nice profit, and like in the real world the more money you have the more money you can make because you can invest that 100K points into more cards and do it again.
Youíre not wrong but from what Iíve seen in the auction house it doesnít seem like that happens often. Youíd need to do that deal 50 times to make a mil and Iíd be lucky to even do it 10 times over a month. To be fair Iím not a very patient person lol. Your live card auctions is smart tho it crossed my mind but again takes a lot of patience
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:06 AM   #20
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You know, every time I read one of these threads that revolves around whales and FTP folk, I'm reminded how on target Bill Veeck was discussing the economics of the game.
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