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Old 07-16-2018, 02:51 PM   #21
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I believe they made a change within the last few patches where a Long Reliever should last longer than a standard middle reliever. They should be able to throw at least 50-60 pitches now (I haven't tested this myself).

Either way, I do agree that this is something that needs to be improved.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:29 PM   #22
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The issue is not that the player is converting a pitcher from SP to RP and back, the issue is the game automatically converts a SP to RP when he's inserted to relieve. It may not happen often, but it will happen when you have an injury, a long rain delay, an extra innings game, etc.

I think the game should not do that, because a SP who could have started that day should not automatically become exhausted when brought in to emergency relieve.

I think the game should allow starters to emergency relieve that retains the fatigue settins of a starter.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #23
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I understand that a RP in the 7th inning throws harder than a SP who started the game. But we are missing the point that if a SP gets injured or ejected in the second inning, the Long Reliever has to be "intelligent enough" to know that he will be needed 3-4 innings, and will need to stretch out his stamina. As the game stands now, he gives it his all with every pitch.
I agree, especially if you are using a 3+ pitch pitcher who could be used as a starter. It would seem that he should be able to give you 50-60+ pitches if well rested.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:29 PM   #24
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Just fix this issue by giving all pitchers a universal fatigue rate and universal stamina rating.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle View Post
The true flaw here is the ability to change a pitchers "position" from "Starter" to "Reliever", and vice versa, at any time. Pitcher stamina should be reflected in how the pitcher is used, and should be able to increase/decrease as such.

The biggest flaw here of course is that you can change the "Position" setting of a pitcher, who for example has been a 1 inning reliever for 3 months, into a starter capable of throwing 90 effective pitches, overnight. Simply/ mostly because he carries a stamina rating reflective of a starter. We all know that this scenario is extremely (if not completely) unlikely at the major league level currently.

from what they say, it is how they are used. i've seen in in more than one thread from markus or matt etc.. (or ?? someone from ootp). so, you don't have to take my word for it.

even if "sp", if used as a reliever their ratings are used as a reliever. (stuff increase, stamina:#pitch ratio etc)

---general reply below --

with the right curve dictating pitches per stamina would work just fine. i think you still need at least 2 curves though. RP and SP are not the same position. they are drastically different and prepare differently for what is required from them, so it makes sense.

if i'm not mistaken, most Long relievers don't go much over ~60 pitches and need 3 days off when they push that limit. they won't typically go longer unless stretched as an SP recently or for near future use as an SP

i don't think ootp is far off from that, historically. i have not seen the recent modifications in action, but they read well. (patch notes mention it) before the changes, it was a bit light - ~40 or so was all you could get without a deathly tired RP and likely hammered.

it's not just about being smart if you are put in due to an injury in 1st inning. if they aren't stretched out for ~100+ pitches as an SP, they cannot just flip a switch and do it without concern for injuring themselves. sp and rp do different things between uses... rp's don't take an entire day off or w/e a normal 'next' day is for an SP

Last edited by NoOne; 07-16-2018 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:39 PM   #26
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Yeah, there really does need to be a difference in how SPs and RPs are used because they perform differently in real life. A reliever should and I believe does have a bigger bonus his first time through a lineup than a starter does, and conversely relievers get much worse in ensuing trips. That as much as actual pitch count fatigue should keep innings per appearance low.

Otherwise, though, how do you handle SPs vs RPs? I do think that one way to handle it on the other end is if you switch a guy from relief to starting, any amount of use over the past 4 days (3 if youíre in the 4 man era) makes you tired. People always talk about how starters *could* pitch on their throw days but nobody actually does that and as such even spot starters are usually long relievers who havenít pitched in a few days.

For relievers, an RP tossing 80 pitches in a game - for example, a game that goes into extra innings - in many circumstances is like a starter throwing 120. Theyíre zipping that fastball in harder in the first inning or two and even if they back off later, you canít unthrow a pitch, let alone 30. Thatís going to wear a guys arm out unless he came in knowing he needed to throw lighter.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:52 PM   #27
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In my current game file dodgers moved Jensen to spend. Averages around 5 innings and is pretty unhittable most games. It's so annoying

This is 3rd year he is a starter.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:29 AM   #28
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I am curious as to what is and was the stamina rating for most of the relievers being mentioned here??? One time I had a reliever with 84 out of 100. I was able to use the guy 3 days in a row a few times. I think that's what is needed to look at .... When I had a stamina rating of 20 I was only able to get a inning every other game if lucky sometimes had to wait 2 games if able. To me I think stamina of relievers mentioned above I wonder if they are low in number ????
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:55 PM   #29
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Playing 2017, every game, just started, had a SP hit a batter, benches clear followed by ejections. SP was ejected 2nd inning. Replaced with RP with 76 stamina. only got 4 innings before he was tired. Just over half what I thought he should get. What I have been doing is 76 stamina gives you 7 to 8 innings then he comes out, tired or not. Doing badly will get you hooked sooner, but doing great will get you extended, most likely if he is working a shutout or no hitter. Sometimes, if he is tired, I will try to get the last one or two outs for the SO or NH, depending on base runner or not and how much of a lead there is. One thing that does not change is one walk, hit or run and he comes out. Been very satisfied. I also only play with stamina ratings on and batters steal, speed and positions played turned on. Everything else is a mystery.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:48 PM   #30
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What was the players' role? 4 Innings from a guy who isn't expecting to start is about as much as I would expect. You don't see major league pitchers coming out of the pen and throwing 7 or 8 innings in any circumstance.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:52 AM   #31
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What about what the Rays are doing this year? Starting a reliever (Stanek mostly) for 30 pitches or so every 2 or 3 days. Is he a reliever or a starter? Interesting to think about.
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:58 AM   #32
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What about what the Rays are doing this year? Starting a reliever (Stanek mostly) for 30 pitches or so every 2 or 3 days. Is he a reliever or a starter? Interesting to think about.


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Old 07-18-2018, 04:27 PM   #33
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What about what the Rays are doing this year? Starting a reliever (Stanek mostly) for 30 pitches or so every 2 or 3 days. Is he a reliever or a starter? Interesting to think about.
This is something that OOTP is not currently able to model (you could technically start him and use him for 30 pitches, but he wouldn't get the bonus he should get for knowing it will be a shorter outing).
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trauma One View Post
What about what the Rays are doing this year? Starting a reliever (Stanek mostly) for 30 pitches or so every 2 or 3 days. Is he a reliever or a starter? Interesting to think about.
People have taken to calling it an "Opener". OOTP can't model it yet. And since it's unlikely that it will be any more than a one season thing for a single team there isn't much need to model it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:58 PM   #35
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Playing 2017, every game, just started, had a SP hit a batter, benches clear followed by ejections. SP was ejected 2nd inning. Replaced with RP with 76 stamina. only got 4 innings before he was tired. Just over half what I thought he should get. What I have been doing is 76 stamina gives you 7 to 8 innings then he comes out, tired or not. Doing badly will get you hooked sooner, but doing great will get you extended, most likely if he is working a shutout or no hitter. Sometimes, if he is tired, I will try to get the last one or two outs for the SO or NH, depending on base runner or not and how much of a lead there is. One thing that does not change is one walk, hit or run and he comes out. Been very satisfied. I also only play with stamina ratings on and batters steal, speed and positions played turned on. Everything else is a mystery.
SP rarely pitch 8 innings. Can't understand why you'd expect a "cold" RP to go 7-8 on short notice.
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