Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 18.8.76 Update Available - OOTP 18 Available - FHM 4 Available - MLB Manager 2017 Available Now

Franchise Hockey Manager 4 Available

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: Historical Simulations

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2007, 05:06 PM   #1
KevinTMC
Minors (Single A)
 
KevinTMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4x in 2 posts
Alternate History -- PCL merger, promoting teams, etc.

I've done some searching and seen folks working on various PCL-related scenarios in previous versions of the game. But some of the most interesting sites seem to have disappeared (e.g. Big City Baseball), and I don't see links to any roster files or data that people are sharing...for any version, much less OOTP 2007. Is any good stuff out there?

To explain my interest, I'll try to describe the alternate-history league I'm planning. The notion I have at the moment is to start my league in 1946, have the AL and NL simulate without interference through 1951--except for overseeing the PCL rosters carefully, helping them aggressively hang on to their best players during this time, with a view towards four teams (Seals, Angels, Stars, Rainiers) joining the AL and NL in 1952. (This would be instead of the step they did take in 1952, pursuing the "Open Classification" route towards major league status for the PCL as a whole. Not only did that not pan out historically, I can't quite see my way towards a fictional league where it could. Not least of the issues are: how on Earth would you handle the postseason then?)

I'm also thinking--since my league will veto the Athletics' move to Kansas City, and all other franchise moves, except for the Browns going back to Milwaukee--of absorbing the Kansas City Monarchs into the AL. (I'm pondering this because I don't like pure expansion teams when I can avoid them. I'd rather "promote" a PCL or Negro League.) Would there be enough players available to scrape together the nucleus of a passable team, or were the major-league-level players all cleaned out of the NAL by 1954-55? And do you suppose it would be possible to transition AAA teams somehow as well--such as bringing the Baltimore Orioles up from the International League?

Any resources, thoughts, or help would be appreciated. I haven't played around with any version of OOTP for several years now, so I'm coming at this feeling much like a newbie, and kinda overwhelmed.

Last edited by KevinTMC; 06-17-2007 at 05:15 PM.
KevinTMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 03:24 PM   #2
Le Grande Orange
Hall Of Famer
 
Le Grande Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Posts: 14,284
Thanks: 39
Thanked 4,116x in 2,311 posts
I'm afraid I can't answer your game-related questions, but I can offer a bit of historical background.

As you noted, the PCL did have aspirations to achieve major league status, but it never worked out in reality, mostly because the existing majors didn't want it to happen. There were also legitimate concerns over how a three major league system would stage a post-season competition for the World Series.

Interestingly, in Nov. of 1952, an article in The New York Times mentioned how there were some plans being laid for a fourth potential major league. Frank Shaughnessy, then the president of the International League, was floating the idea that this proposed major league would involve the four largest cities from the American Association and the International League. Most likely this would have meant Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis from the former and Baltimore, Buffalo, Montreal, and Toronto from the latter would comprise this new major league.

A four major league setup would have simplified the post-season World Series competition.

In reality, this proposal died when the Boston Braves moved to Milwaukee and the St. Louis Browns moved to Baltimore, removing a prime city from each minor league.

It would make for an interesting alternate history where the PCL and this proposed fourth major league come to pass.
__________________
.
"You're sad that people are mean? Well, I'm sorry, the world isn't one big liberal arts campus."
— Reality, South Park

"You think you're so great with your maths and your science and your facts? What about feelings, huh?"
"Yeah. Feelings are more important that facts!"
— Penelope, Simon, Modern Educayshun
Le Grande Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 07:54 PM   #3
Kelric
Hall Of Famer
 
Kelric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Greater Boston Area
Posts: 3,991
Thanks: 7
Thanked 48x in 38 posts
Interesting historical tidbit there, LGO. It's giving me ideas.
Kelric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 09:56 PM   #4
KevinTMC
Minors (Single A)
 
KevinTMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 56
Thanks: 31
Thanked 4x in 2 posts
That is indeed an interesting tidbit. I hadn't heard of that proposal before.

I can see taking those strongest AA/IL teams and promoting them to the majors. I still have a little trouble with the idea that all 8 PCL teams, as-is, could have constituted a major league. It was my impression that some of them weren't nearly as strong (and rich) as the others, and that that was one of the roadblocks.

An intriguing, key question remains with four leagues: the post-season. I'm presuming that the first round would have AL vs. NL as usual in one series, and the two new leagues against each other in the other. Would AL vs. NL still be called the "World Series"? Would it be considered a continuation of the same old "World Series" for record purposes? Or, would the final matchup become the "World Series", and those games be added to the historical record of past Series (as happened when moving to divisional play...though that was an easier call since the same two leagues were involved)?

Hmm...if the latter were the case, you could have AL vs. PCL, and NL vs. IL, in the first round, with an eye to the same old friends meeting up in the final World Series more often than not...but not always!

While if the former were the case, what would you call a Series that was one step beyond the World Series?

By the way, the most informative thing I have found so far on the PCL, "Open Classification", and major league status is an article that appeared in NINE:

Steve Treder
Open Classification: The Pacific Coast League's Drive to Turn Major
NINE: A Journal of Baseball History and Culture - Volume 15, Number 1, Fall 2006, pp. 88-109

I was able to download the PDF and peruse it for free thanks to University database access. If there are folks here who would love to read it but don't have such access, you are welcome to send me a PM.
KevinTMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 02:55 AM   #5
Le Grande Orange
Hall Of Famer
 
Le Grande Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Posts: 14,284
Thanks: 39
Thanked 4,116x in 2,311 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelric View Post
Interesting historical tidbit there, LGO. It's giving me ideas.
Good! That was my intention when I posted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTMC View Post
I still have a little trouble with the idea that all 8 PCL teams, as-is, could have constituted a major league. It was my impression that some of them weren't nearly as strong (and rich) as the others, and that that was one of the roadblocks.
Part of it also was that the most of the existing PCL stadiums were too small. The majors had put up a fairly high set of requirements for a league to be considered a major league:
  • Average paid attendance of at least 3,500,000 for the three seasons preceding to the application
  • Total aggregate population of the league cites to be at least 15,000,000
  • Each park to have a seating capacity of at least 25,000
In contrast, Open classification consisted of the following requirements:
  • Average paid attendance of at least 2,250,000 for the five seasons preceding the application
  • Total aggregate population of the league cities to be at least 10,000,000
  • Total aggregate park seating capacity for the league of at least 125,000
Benefits from Open classification included clubs being allowed to retain players for five seasons before being subject to the major league (Rule 5) draft instead of the four years in lower leagues; also, players could elect to not to particpate in the draft if they chose (I believe however both these rules were changed in subsequent years). Open leagues had first picks in the draft after the AL and NL, but could not draft players from AAA class teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTMC View Post
An intriguing, key question remains with four leagues: the post-season. I'm presuming that the first round would have AL vs. NL as usual in one series, and the two new leagues against each other in the other.
Possibly; I don't think the plans ever progressed far enough to tackle the question. My guess would be that the matchups would have been rotated over a period of years. So the first year it might be the AL vs. NL and AA vs. IL, then the next year it might be the AL vs. AA and NL vs. IL, then the third year it might be AL vs. IL and NL vs. AA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTMC View Post
Would AL vs. NL still be called the "World Series"? Would it be considered a continuation of the same old "World Series" for record purposes? Or, would the final matchup become the "World Series", and those games be added to the historical record of past Series...
I'd guess the latter, and the first round matchups would have been given some sort of name.
__________________
.
"You're sad that people are mean? Well, I'm sorry, the world isn't one big liberal arts campus."
— Reality, South Park

"You think you're so great with your maths and your science and your facts? What about feelings, huh?"
"Yeah. Feelings are more important that facts!"
— Penelope, Simon, Modern Educayshun
Le Grande Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:47 PM   #6
ctorg
Global Moderator
 
ctorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 9,838
Thanks: 78
Thanked 141x in 78 posts
As for how to work a four-major-league setup within the game, since the game only handles two subleagues, I see two options:

1. Create an AL/NL subleague that contains two divisions (the AL and NL, obviously), and another subleague for the two new leagues, with each as a division. In this way, one World Series team would come from the "old" leagues and one would come from the "new" leagues each year.

2. Have no subleagues, just four divisions. In this way, there might be different matchups of World Series teams, with divisional champs playing each other in rounds depending on overall records.

I'd probably choose number 1 and reconfigure the alignments. I suspect that if something like this ever did happen in real life, eventually the four leagues would be pared down to 2 again and you would have had something like this anyway.
__________________
My music

"When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright

Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils
ctorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 AM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2015 Out of the Park Developments