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OOTP 14 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:52 AM   #1
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First historical game, tips?

Recently bought OOTP 14, have played several other versions not including OOTP 13. Mostly played fictional leagues or started at the current time.

I now want to start a historical league in 1914, Babe Ruth's debut year and not missing my other personally interesting people Shoeless Joe Jackson, Ty Cobb.

I have looked around a bit and I think I have the right idea, but I'm still not entirely sure about all the start-up settings. I'm going to use the GamboSpritze database.

-I think I am correct in using "Neutralized stats", according to the manual (because of Gambo database). The fielding ratings/pitcher stamina 3-year period. Not entirely sure on potential rating, what's best?

-My major problem: Minor Leagues. What is your advice when you start a long historical game? Should I not use any minor leagues, or use minor leagues with fictional players filling it up (but not reaching majors). I know that minor leagues back then were different, if there was any, not sure? I'm stuck on this.

-What are your views on player development? I myself want to play a historical game where roughly most people have their real potential based on their real stats, but still enough room where someone could potentially fail (injury, not playing, out of luck, etc.) and not reach their full potential, or the other way around where Shoeless Joe Jackson does play for much longer where there never was a White Sox scandal. In short: a somewhat historical game but room for different outcomes.

-I plan to use the expanded league based on reality. Not sure what happens if I do not "use hold expansion draft", I know what it does.

-I prefer to play by being the overal GM, deciding who I want, contracts, etc. But letting the line-ups etc. mostly get done by my staff.

-Finally, are the default AI settings good enough? Trade frequency etc.

Thanks for taking the time reading it and hopefully answering
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #2
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Since you're talking 100 years ago, I think the injury setting should be set to highest.

I recommend not using minors.

Also, remember that Babe Ruth imports as a pitcher. This should not affect his progressing as a hitter (that bug was fixed 4 years ago IIRC) but the AI can get screwy when it comes to the Bambino.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwburke94 View Post
Since you're talking 100 years ago, I think the injury setting should be set to highest.

I recommend not using minors.

Also, remember that Babe Ruth imports as a pitcher. This should not affect his progressing as a hitter (that bug was fixed 4 years ago IIRC) but the AI can get screwy when it comes to the Bambino.
Ok, I guess minors are pretty useless during that period. Maybe I should add minors later on manually.

Hmm ok, in that case I should maybe start on the year that Babe Ruth turned hitter, to be on the safe side?
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwburke94 View Post
Since you're talking 100 years ago, I think the injury setting should be set to highest.

I recommend not using minors.

Also, remember that Babe Ruth imports as a pitcher. This should not affect his progressing as a hitter (that bug was fixed 4 years ago IIRC) but the AI can get screwy when it comes to the Bambino.
Highest? Try lowest. There were very few injuries back then. and if you have highest and no AAA the ML roster will have 10 players left by the end of the season.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
-I think I am correct in using "Neutralized stats", according to the manual (because of Gambo database). The fielding ratings/pitcher stamina 3-year period. Not entirely sure on potential rating, what's best?
Neutralized stats are a tough one to figure. If you are playing players on the teams they came with in the parks they played in with reserve clause rules I'd suggest not using neutral if you are trying for a replication of real life stats. If you are trying to an alternate reality with modern financials, lots of player movement then I'd go with the neutrals. On the stamina and fatigue ratings I personally don't like the 3-year option. I have seen many a great player come into the game playing different positions, or 300 game winners with 1 stamina. I prefer using career settings. Sometimes that backfires too.

Quote:
-My major problem: Minor Leagues. What is your advice when you start a long historical game? Should I not use any minor leagues, or use minor leagues with fictional players filling it up (but not reaching majors). I know that minor leagues back then were different, if there was any, not sure? I'm stuck on this.
I like using minors with shadow players turned on, mainly because I like to get a sense prospects are progressing by playing. Plus you can use their minor league performance as a tool to measure their development. People who like a more pure sim might disagree with me and prefer just a reservse system.

Quote:
-What are your views on player development? I myself want to play a historical game where roughly most people have their real potential based on their real stats, but still enough room where someone could potentially fail (injury, not playing, out of luck, etc.) and not reach their full potential, or the other way around where Shoeless Joe Jackson does play for much longer where there never was a White Sox scandal. In short: a somewhat historical game but room for different outcomes.
If you want the development engine on and some chance enabled I suggest you use the development engine with volatility turned pretty low, maybe to like 20-40. I also prefer using potential ratings set to career peak. There are some guys who IRL had a very high peak, but stayed on too long and their career numbers flattened out. With high career peak you still hold the possibility for that nice peak period.

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-I plan to use the expanded league based on reality. Not sure what happens if I do not "use hold expansion draft", I know what it does.
Good question. I didn't even think you could do it that way. My best guess is you will have problem progressing through the season unless you can find a full roster of players. Not sure how you are gonna get there without expansion. You may want to reconsider this, or set number of players protected in the draft to a relatively high number, but if you aren't going to have full minors that will present it's own sort of challenge.

Quote:
-I prefer to play by being the overal GM, deciding who I want, contracts, etc. But letting the line-ups etc. mostly get done by my staff.
-Finally, are the default AI settings good enough? Trade frequency etc.
Not sure I get how you want to play. I usually do GM mode, but that includes player trades. I set my depth chart and strategy to how I want, then follow the game play fairly closely to make sure the players are being used by the AI the way I want. The AI needs tweaking from time to time. Also, what about injuries? I personally wouldn't trust the AI to handle trades or call up players for injuries, but that's just me. I see how the AI trades with itself and see some real doozies from time to time, I wouldn't allow the AI to do my roster moves like that. In game based on depth chart and strategy, I let it do it for expediency sake, but I do know the AI can be pretty boneheaded about that too. You have to make a compromise somewhere I suppose.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:19 AM   #6
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- Ah I see now, I am actually trying to somewhat replicate real life more than not. But I still would like the random occurence where someone does not entirely reach their full potential. A slight randomness there. But roughly real stats.

-True, I will try both ways, see which one I think is best. I'll start with minors.

- It's hard to get a grasp on things like this option for instance. I read on some other threads that player development is more like a fictional way of simulating a historical game. I don't mind things happening differently, just not too much. I still want Babe Ruth have a high chance of succeeding like he did in real. But the average stars to be either slightly below their real stats or slighty more at their peak.

- I see, I will turn on "use hold expansion draft." Too much side problems there.

- Perhaps I failed a little to be more precise. What I want is basically the way you describe yourself playing the game. Doing the trades myself, the contracts, and semi-managing my line-up. Mostly letting AI do it, but if I see certain things that look strange, I will enforce my vision on the line-ups.

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowbar View Post
- Ah I see now, I am actually trying to somewhat replicate real life more than not. But I still would like the random occurence where someone does not entirely reach their full potential. A slight randomness there. But roughly real stats.

-True, I will try both ways, see which one I think is best. I'll start with minors.

- It's hard to get a grasp on things like this option for instance. I read on some other threads that player development is more like a fictional way of simulating a historical game. I don't mind things happening differently, just not too much. I still want Babe Ruth have a high chance of succeeding like he did in real. But the average stars to be either slightly below their real stats or slighty more at their peak.

- I see, I will turn on "use hold expansion draft." Too much side problems there.

- Perhaps I failed a little to be more precise. What I want is basically the way you describe yourself playing the game. Doing the trades myself, the contracts, and semi-managing my line-up. Mostly letting AI do it, but if I see certain things that look strange, I will enforce my vision on the line-ups.

Thanks for the advice!
From my experience none of the real players will be nearly as good as IRL.
Notable players who will not make my HOF (started in 1999) Craig Biggio, 300 hits shy of 3,000. Frank Thomas, 65 HR shy of 500, Harold Baines, 2600 Hits 2846 IRL, So while all 3 of these players were still good, they are not HOF caliber. Paul Konerko, a clone of Ozzie Smith, A Clone of Rabbit Maranville & a clone of Luis Aparicio all suck in my game. The clone of Ozzie Smith had no defense ratings after 7 yrs. Now clones are different with recalc on, but many players you think will be great will be bad. Glove guys get no love in OOTP and tend to be career backups or retire after a handful of years.
Some players, especially pre 1925 players tend to be better then IRL. I have seen some players, not only in my leagues, have 200 more HR then IRL, 200 more wins, pitch 400 IP when that season IRL they had 250.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
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From my experience none of the real players will be nearly as good as IRL.
Notable players who will not make my HOF (started in 1999) Craig Biggio, 300 hits shy of 3,000. Frank Thomas, 65 HR shy of 500, Harold Baines, 2600 Hits 2846 IRL, So while all 3 of these players were still good, they are not HOF caliber. Paul Konerko, a clone of Ozzie Smith, A Clone of Rabbit Maranville & a clone of Luis Aparicio all suck in my game. The clone of Ozzie Smith had no defense ratings after 7 yrs. Now clones are different with recalc on, but many players you think will be great will be bad. Glove guys get no love in OOTP and tend to be career backups or retire after a handful of years.
Some players, especially pre 1925 players tend to be better then IRL. I have seen some players, not only in my leagues, have 200 more HR then IRL, 200 more wins, pitch 400 IP when that season IRL they had 250.
Yeah, there are some players that never seem to translate in OOTP. Bob Feller and Pete Rose are the first two who come to mind for me. Rose of course had ludicrous consistency and longevity, two things you rarely get from the game, and almost never together. As for Feller, I don't know what it is about his ratings, maybe they would be great post-1960 and it's the era working against him. Strikeout pitchers were not the norm in his time and the game settings might be working against him.

But otherwise, Babe Ruth always falls short. I think the split nature of his career doesn't work in the game. .400 hitters in general don't work in game, like Ty Cobb. Pre 1920 pitchers are usually insanely good if you play them in-era. Then there is Addie Joss who is insanely good any era I play him. I had him in the modern era and he was going 30-2 or 29-4 on a regular basis.

I know what you mean about the defensive guys. Ozzie Smith never comes off as anything special.

Some guys who regularly do well for me, roughly equating RL performance are Ted Williams (always silly awesome), Barry Bonds, Nolan Ryan, Greg Maddux (usually comes really close to RL performance).

Even with low volatility there is enough randomness there is no way to keep things close, but still somewhat random. Then again I have never played with volatility below 40 so I don't know just how close you can cut it. I just know there are some players that for whatever reason their stats and ratings don't translate in game and not sure there is much you can do about it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:00 AM   #9
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Yeah, there are some players that never seem to translate in OOTP. Bob Feller and Pete Rose are the first two who come to mind for me. Rose of course had ludicrous consistency and longevity, two things you rarely get from the game, and almost never together. As for Feller, I don't know what it is about his ratings, maybe they would be great post-1960 and it's the era working against him. Strikeout pitchers were not the norm in his time and the game settings might be working against him.
On my third league for HOF method testing, and on this third run through, I got Bob Feller to enter for the first time.

Rose? He has made all three.

My standards are different from what OOTP uses, but the results have been consitent in that I get about 30% RL HOFers in a HOF of approximately 200 players.

Also, from any one OOTP HOF to another, I get a rate of about 30% for repeat entries.

Having a HOF career is simply not a lock, for anyone.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #10
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On my third league for HOF method testing, and on this third run through, I got Bob Feller to enter for the first time.

Rose? He has made all three.

My standards are different from what OOTP uses, but the results have been consitent in that I get about 30% RL HOFers in a HOF of approximately 200 players.

Also, from any one OOTP HOF to another, I get a rate of about 30% for repeat entries.

Having a HOF career is simply not a lock, for anyone.
What are your standards? For Rose to make my HOF he would have to most likely have over 3000 Hits and/or .300 average.
For Feller minimum 275 wins and/or 3000 K.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:56 PM   #11
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What are your standards? For Rose to make my HOF he would have to most likely have over 3000 Hits and/or .300 average.
For Feller minimum 275 wins and/or 3000 K.
The standards are based on previous player performance. The idea is that an algorithm for HOF induction can be put into place that will result in a HOF that reflects the one in Cooperstown. This would include a % of inductees (batter vs pitcher) comparable to RL and a HOF which has a similar % of inductees vs the number of players with ML experience.

So, running 100 years of a deadball league would get you the same number of players in the HOF than if you ran the same number of teams through 100 years of Steroid Era settings. Same number of pitchers (approx) and same number of hitters (approx). These numbers would also be the same if you are playing with zero injuries and zero fatigue or very high injuries and very high fatigue.

These numbers would be the same no matter what aging/development settings you use, either.

As my current league is winding (running out of real players...the method could continue with fictional players, also, but I am ending it when the real guys have all been drafted) I have 75 players with 500, or more, HR. In comparison with RL, this 500 number does not mean the same thing. 650 HR is the number that is the "500 HR" for this league. Anyone with 650 HR, who is eligible, is in the HOF. There are 25 players with 650 HR, in their career.

A corresponding number to 3000 hits would be about 2775.

For pitchers, 250 wins in my league is considered a feat similar to what 300 is IRL. 4000 strikeouts in my current league is like 3000 IRL.

When I started this league, I had no idea what these numbers would look like. I didn't know if 2775 hits would be like 3000 or if 3775 hits would be like 3000.

When Pete Rose retired he was the all time hit leader. The HOF didn't come to be until 17 years after he played his last. 10 years later, he was inducted. He was 25th on the career list at that time, with 2442 hits and a .324 career batting average.

Feller was 207-144 with 4322 strikeouts in 3186.2 IP. He entered the HOF 10th on the career K/9 list. 25 seasons later, he ranks 13th on that list and also 13th on the career K list.

At this point in time, 47 pitchers have been inducted to go along with 112 hitters.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:50 PM   #12
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In my 1977 start league, in 1980 Pete Rose signed with the Mariners.


And somewhere had become a catcher.


A terrible catcher.


Go figure.

(He was still a good hitter! Made the All-Star team as a catcher...)
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