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Old 04-03-2009, 01:49 PM   #1
KevinV
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Available cash clarification needed.

I have recently joined an OOTP online league. I am not seeing eye to eye with my commissioner on an issue. What is in dispute is how much cash my team has available to it. He claims -$5,837,290. I claim +$7,150,849. I realize he is a veteran of this sort of thing and is probably right but I do not see the flaw in my reasoning. Please see the picture below and both of our explanations and let me know where I am wrong. Thanks in advance for your insight.



My explanation:

Quote:
Here is my assessment of the "Current Financial Overview"



The first section that gets summed up in the "Starting balance" is for one time cash transactions. Those being:
1. The Preceeding Year Balance.


2. Revenue Sharing

3. Cash from Owner

4. Cash from trades



Those get added up in to the "Starting Balance". The only reference to it being "Cash" is one word on the online manual that doesn't even match the picture it is supposed to be describing. My guess is that this is a typo and a relic from a previous OOTP version. I also think "Starting Balance" is a bit of a misnomer. It could more accurately be called "some thing like "One Time Cash Transactions Balance." This sum is not a projection. It is the adding up of actual transactions that have happened.



The second section normally is for keeping track of the money flowing in and out of an organization throughout the course of the year. That gets added up in to "Season Profit/Loss". "Season Profit/Loss" is actual money that you have made or lost. It is not a projection or an estimate. Think about it, you host a home game and get money from the ticket sales. You immediately have that money. Same thing for money you get from the media for that game and the salaries you pay your players for that game. They are all actual transaction. They are not projections.



Next the "Starting Balance" and "Season Profit/Loss" get added together to get the "Current Balance". The "Current Balance is money that I contend that you actually have on hand. It adds up all of the real things that have actually happened, from the preceding year balance to the merchandising revenue from the last game.This value contains no projections at all. Only actual transactions.



What you referred to as "Current Balance" is what OOTP calls "Projected Final Balance". That is the value that estimates where you will end up at the end of the year. It is a projection, not a sum.



With all of that said. The reason why I contend that I have $
7,150,849 on hand as available cash is the that you set the league up so that I got a lump sum $14,500,000 media revenue payment. Because of the lump sum (that I have already received) I have a positive "Current Balance". If you had set things up to run differently, with me getting that $14,500,000 over the course of 144 games as is normally done, I would not have $7,150,849 on hand. But you gave it in a lump sum, so I have it all now.
Here is his explanation:
Quote:
The cash I’m reporting to you is the cash that OOTP reports to me. In commissioner mode I have access to a “Cash” field for your team. The amount in that field reads “-$5,837,290”. That is what you have, pure and simple.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:01 PM   #2
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You also have access to the cash field for your team. Look at your financial report from your team home page.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
You also have access to the cash field for your team. Look at your financial report from your team home page.
Yes, the screen cap above is from that screen.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinV View Post
Yes, the screen cap above is from that screen.
No, there's another report that shows more. Go to the league home page, then team. Under your "Links", click on the one that says financial report.
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #5
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It looks like this

Name:  2009 Apr 03_003.jpg
Views: 645
Size:  157.6 KB
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:35 PM   #6
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That report is says CASH at the same value the Starting Balance does on the other sheet.

For some reason it doesn't add in the media revenue I have already gotten.

If you get that rvenue in a lump sum, does it not count towards cash until the start of the next season?
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:37 PM   #7
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:31 PM   #8
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Maybe we should be asking, what is the purpose for this argument over "cash"? Is it that you want to trade said cash? If so, I think it's pretty clear that "current balance" means cash, not "starting balance" which may as well be called "balance some time ago" or "cash some time ago". If it's for $ for FA or extensions, then no that's something else entirely.

As you already probably realize, OOTP is not at all good at naming or displaying or processing (why are some things lump sums when they probably shouldn't be and others are not?) financials and so it can be confusing, but just because the game calls it something (in the editor here which was probably thrown together) doesn't mean it is that something. Sometimes you need to use common sense to figure things out, which I think you have here, rather than just rely on what you see.

I'm going to move the thread to the managers' lounge as I think it's more of an online league question.
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Last edited by kq76; 04-17-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76 View Post
Maybe we should be asking, what is the purpose for this argument over "cash"? Is it that you want to trade said cash? If so, I think it's pretty clear that "current balance" means cash, not "starting balance" which may as well be called "balance some time ago" or "cash some time ago". If it's for $ for FA or extensions, then no that's something else entirely.

As you already probably realize, OOTP is not at all good at naming or displaying or processing (why are some things lump sums when they probably shouldn't be and others are not?) financials and so it can be confusing, but just because the game calls it something (in the editor here which was probably thrown together) doesn't mean it is that something. Sometimes you need to use common sense to figure things out, which I think you have here, rather than just rely on what you see.

I'm going to move the thread to the managers' lounge as I think it's more of an online league question.
While you're correct that the game does a poor job naming things, in this case the Team Financial Report has it right. What is listed in the "CASH" field there is exactly what the team has available for cash on hand. Not only is this viewable in the team editor but you can verify it through other means. For instance, try to execute a trade where a team possessing a negative value in the "CASH" field but a positive value in the "CURRENT BALANCE" field attempts to include cash in the deal. You will be prevented from doing so; OOTP will report that the team has no cash on hand to trade. Indeed that is correct, as "CURRENT BALANCE" factors in expected revenue that hasn't yet been earned.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:43 PM   #10
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Does that cash number (starting balance) update throughout the season? If not, and that is how it does it then it sounds like the game is using the wrong figure for cash. Surely it only makes sense to use the current balance figure and not the year's starting balance. Whether the revenue is earned or not I don't think should matter (that's more an accounting issue). If the money has been given to you (again, some of it probably shouldn't be, but that's a separate issue, then it should be made available to dispense how one sees fit.

I obviously don't make many trades involving cash otherwise I should have known this.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76 View Post
Does that cash number (starting balance) update throughout the season? If not, and that is how it does it then it sounds like the game is using the wrong figure for cash. Surely it only makes sense to use the current balance figure and not the year's starting balance. Whether the revenue is earned or not I don't think should matter (that's more an accounting issue). If the money has been given to you (again, some of it probably shouldn't be, but that's a separate issue, then it should be made available to dispense how one sees fit.

I obviously don't make many trades involving cash otherwise I should have known this.
The value in the "CASH" field will update during the season for certain events (e.g. completing a trade that nets/loses you cash). In terms of your yearly revenue/loss, that figure isn't added/deducted from your available cash until the day after your league's postseason concludes. This is also the day when your media contract money is added to your available funds.
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