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Old 06-13-2015, 09:34 AM   #1
MikeS21
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Stuff/Movement/Control vs. Command

I am trying to figure out the differences in some of the pitching ratings. I know what "control" is, and I think I understand the idea of "movement." But what is "stuff" and how is that related to what scouts call "command."

I am adjusting ratings for a young pitcher, who has been scouted and rated by actual scouts. On a 20-80 scale, his control is currently rated at 40, with a potential of 50. His command is rated at 40/45. (Fastball = 55/65, Slider = 50/60, Changeup = 40/50) His velocity is in the 91-93 mph range, occasionally touching 95. He is projected to be a #3-#4 starter.

Any thoughts on how to translate that in to OOTP ratings?
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Old 06-13-2015, 09:41 AM   #2
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Stuff in OOTP is about the quality of pitches. From the manual:

Quote:
Stuff is a measure of the quality of a pitcher's pitch repertoire. Think of it as essentially how a pitcher "puts it all together." Stuff directly affects the number of strikeouts a pitcher throws. Stuff is calculated based on a combination of his individual pitch ratings and the velocity with which he throws.
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Old 06-13-2015, 10:21 AM   #3
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The closest rating to "Command" in OOTP is "Control," but technically speaking, they are not the same. Control is simply the ability to throw strikes, whereas command is more about pitch placement within the strike zone.

Really just looking at ways to accurately integrate "command" into OOTP since command is usually given as a 20-80 rating by scouts in pitching evaluations.
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:02 AM   #4
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Just so I'm following too after this great question from OP.

Is it possible for a pitcher to have good control but poor stuff? I am thinking yes, maybe someone doesn't give up too many walks but as a result gets hit a lot. Whereas someone with good stuff could a be a bit wild, but also strikeout because his "stuff" is unhittable - like Randy Johnson?
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
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Stuff/Movement/Control vs. Command

Control is command.

The manual says control = accuracy.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 06-13-2015 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan View Post
Control is command.

The manual says control = accuracy.
My point is that for scouting purposes, control is NOT the same as command. Simply google "command vs control" and there are many links that say there IS a difference.

Last edited by MikeS21; 06-13-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:37 PM   #7
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Stuff/Movement/Control vs. Command

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
My point is that for scouting purposes, control is NOT the same as command. Simply google "command vs control" and there are many links that say there IS a difference.

Yes I know the difference in the wording..

Command is usually referring to the ability to hit a target while control is usually used when describing how good a pitcher is at throwing pitches inside the zone.

Both definitions have to do with accuracy.

You can argue that a pitcher with good control and good stuff = good command

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 06-13-2015 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:46 PM   #8
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All three combine to form command. Otherwise, I would've expected the devs to include a command rating.
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:28 PM   #9
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I would disagree with those that are saying the Control rating is command. The Control rating governs walks, which is what the scouting community calls control IMO.

The DIPS theory doesn't really distinguish a separate command factor in pitching. I think Isaac's answer is probably the best. Command is represented by an amalgam of factors, including the displayed ratings and other factors.

I think the real answer to the OP is that command isn't directly scoutable in OOTP.
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Old 06-13-2015, 08:05 PM   #10
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Stuff/Movement/Control vs. Command

Note in the written scouting reports under CONTROL that command is often referred to.

Example:

CONTROL:
"_______ has very good command of his pitches. Doesn't walk people very often"
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
I am trying to figure out the differences in some of the pitching ratings. I know what "control" is, and I think I understand the idea of "movement." But what is "stuff" and how is that related to what scouts call "command."

I am adjusting ratings for a young pitcher, who has been scouted and rated by actual scouts. On a 20-80 scale, his control is currently rated at 40, with a potential of 50. His command is rated at 40/45. (Fastball = 55/65, Slider = 50/60, Changeup = 40/50) His velocity is in the 91-93 mph range, occasionally touching 95. He is projected to be a #3-#4 starter.


Any thoughts on how to translate that in to OOTP ratings?

Control is the ability to throw strikes. Command is the ability to precisely place the pitch EXACTLY where the catcher wants it.



There are "good" strikes & "bad" strikes. The ability to pitch in or out off the plate, up or down in the zone by command.



You hear managers talk about fastball command all the time when a pitcher gets shelled because of his inability to command the fastball. Hitters will sit on it, just waiting to crush it.



You will hear about a top prospect, wondering why he hasn't been called up. The GM or manager will simply say, he needs to improve his fastball command. Against AAA hitters you can get away with that but not at the major league level.


Hope this helps.

Last edited by hcorry2001; 12-05-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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