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Old 12-22-2012, 07:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Afino View Post
There's a different appeal to minor league hockey, though. I don't think it's fair to compare minor leagues that are out to get people in the door at almost any cost (including promoting fights) to a simulation game.
I just hope our game either does not have fighting, or if it does, that the fighting can be turned off.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:40 PM   #62
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I just hope our game either does not have fighting, or if it does, that the fighting can be turned off.
I will agree with you on that point - there should be a fighting/no fighting toggle in the game. I think it's part of the game, but we can argue until we're blue in the face and minds won't change. It's like politics
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Old 12-23-2012, 04:28 PM   #63
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ummm
again you guys are missing the point of why i started this thread. it is not to debate such issues or what someone likes in hockey

it was a thread to discuss that to date no hockey game on the market has attempted to bring this area of the into realism. everyone can play as they wish, that is what makes this line of products so great
but if you want to historically play the nhl- as i do- then steve durbano, john ferguson, ted green, tiger williams, eddie shore, sprague cleghorn are a part of that history, and physical play, fights and brawls a part of it to.

It is about making the game totally realistic as a sport and to the time periods.

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Old 12-23-2012, 05:02 PM   #64
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ummm
again you guys are missing the point of why i started this thread. it is not to debate such issues or what someone likes in hockey

it was a thread to discuss that to date no hockey game on the market has attempted to bring this area of the into realism. everyone can play as they wish, that is what makes this line of products so great
but if you want to historically play the nhl- as i do- then steve durbano, john ferguson, ted green, tiger williams, eddie shore, sprague cleghorn are a part of that history, and physical play, fights and brawls a part of it to.

It is about making the game totally realistic as a sport and to the time periods.

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Exactly. Whatever your personal opinion on it (I don't mind it) fighting is a part of hockey, and even if it's disappearing it certainly used to be a fairly major part of hockey.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:06 PM   #65
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Exactly. Whatever your personal opinion on it (I don't mind it) fighting is a part of hockey, and even if it's disappearing it certainly used to be a fairly major part of hockey.
Unfortunately with the crackdown on fighting the game has lost much of its passion. I find it hard to watch regular season games anymore, you couldn't drag me away from "any" game in the 70's and 80's. Now the difference between regular season games and playoff games is EXTREME, didnt used to be so pronounced. Game has changed alot over the last 20 years:

Crackdown on fighting
Massive increase in Goalie Pads size
Clutch and grab style of play
Player size increase resulting in smaller seeming rink sizes
Serious head injuries due to lack of player enforcement being allowed
etc etc etc....
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:57 PM   #66
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Id Like to ask are there suspensions? After dirty hit or Something. In NHL there are lots of multi games suspensions These days.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #67
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Id Like to ask are there suspensions? After dirty hit or Something. In NHL there are lots of multi games suspensions These days.
There are and they are proving ineffective.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:04 AM   #68
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Heck with fighting, anyone watching the World Juniors right now would say that the IIHF is trying to do away with any physical contact. Just some outrageous calls so far in this tournament.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:37 AM   #69
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Heck with fighting, anyone watching the World Juniors right now would say that the IIHF is trying to do away with any physical contact. Just some outrageous calls so far in this tournament.
Haha! I guess it's because fighting is not allowed at International hockey? And I believe that's how it should stay! Fighting in the leagues - fair enough it will happen. Representing your country - it should never happen! But hockey is hockey and it will/does!
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #70
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Haha! I guess it's because fighting is not allowed at International hockey? And I believe that's how it should stay! Representing your country - it should never happen! But hockey is hockey and it will/does!
God knows we can't have any more excitement added to the game, might ruin it....
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:23 AM   #71
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Just curious in regards to fighting in the game. Will their be "Won-Loss" stats kept in the game? If Tie Domi has 24 fights in a season, will their be a record say 16-4-4 so we can get a gauge of who the champ is and who had a terrible fight record?
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #72
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Here is a portion of an interview article Jay Greenberg did with Dave Schultz about a year and a half ago that I thought some might find interesting:

“Guys are getting hurt in fights now, getting concussions, that never used to happen. I can’t hit hard. I played at 195-6 pounds. When I played, the injuries that came from a hockey fight were one of the two guys had his feelings hurt and that’s it.

“It wasn’t always two tough guys going at all the time, like it is now. Two guys would come together, get mad, and have it out.

“Today I would be playing at 215. I would be bigger and stronger, and whether I would have gotten that way with steroids, I don’t know. I didn’t know anything about steroids then.”

If he had, and believed Gillies, O’Reilly and Keith Magnuson were users, would Schultz have been one, too?

“Wow, I never even thought about that,” he said. “I probably would have. Wow.

“In Montreal for an All Star Game a few years ago, I’m doing a TV show and sitting next to (recently-retired enforcer) George Laraque. Big guy, 225. I told him, not on the air, ‘you’re going to kill somebody.’ Or, these guys are going to have (dementia) problems later on. They only fight each other anymore and rarely does it have anything to do with the game.

“Three guys in one summer, I wouldn’t blame that [just] on the stress of the job. Until I get some answers I want to know what, if anything, they were putting into their bodies over the last number of years.

“I mean Probert had CTE, right, but he didn’t die of a brain clot, he had a heart attack. He took a lot of (recreational) drugs, that’s documented. Or was his brain shaken for other reasons.

“John Kordic, cocaine, right?”

Schultz got out with better health for his golden years than some guys who rarely threw a punch in anger, real or feigned.

Here is link to article: Flyers Where Are They Now?: Dave Schultz
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:05 PM   #73
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Now that we are getting close to a beta release
anyone who has been testing or working with the game so far can make a short comment about how the physical aspect of this game looks
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:44 PM   #74
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From what I understand -no they cannot. They have a non-disclosure agreement. Not allowed to speak about anything other than what Sebastien or the team has spoken about.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:16 PM   #75
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Best Hockey Fight Ever Francis Lessard Vs Sebastien Laferriere - YouTube

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Old 03-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestre View Post
Unfortunately with the crackdown on fighting the game has lost much of its passion. I find it hard to watch regular season games anymore, you couldn't drag me away from "any" game in the 70's and 80's. Now the difference between regular season games and playoff games is EXTREME, didnt used to be so pronounced. Game has changed alot over the last 20 years:

Crackdown on fighting
Massive increase in Goalie Pads size
Clutch and grab style of play
Player size increase resulting in smaller seeming rink sizes
Serious head injuries due to lack of player enforcement being allowed
etc etc etc....
IMHO, the two bold points have done more to harm the charm and appeal of the sport than anything. I came into the game in the mid 1980s. LOVED the flow and the potential that there could be a score literally every time a team started up ice on the attack. That anticipation was exciting, at least for me.

The "modern" game has lost that feeling, IMO. "Systems" replaced being creative and free flowing play. Goalie pads balooned and there's nothing to shot at. Rarely now does a player come flying down the wing and blast one by the goalie. The defensive system has cut off the flying down the wing part, and the wall of goalie pads as literally cut off any view of the net.

It's a shame really. I want players to be protected, but I think goalies are a bit too bloated nowadays. And the clutch-n-grab stuff is a little better now, but the system behind it, is still there and stifling flow.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:19 AM   #77
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I don't think morale should be a part of a hockey fighting sim. "Morale" in general is sloppy idea when it comes to crunching numbers, and a statistical correlation between winning fights and winning games has never been made.

I think the developers should focus more on realistic consequences, like if you don't dress a big guy, checks are thrown more liberally by the other team and your star players face an increased chance of injuries. Or if you keep dressing a big guy with a nasty streak, your organization can face fines.

How a fight actually affects a hockey game is such a limited scope, otherwise. Sure, it can pump you up for a couple of minutes, but then you skate a shift and start focusing on what your line did right/wrong.

Unless you're the Vancouver Canucks. Then you whine and complain the whole game about something that happened in the first period.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:50 AM   #78
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Serious head injuries due to lack of player enforcement being allowed
That is highly debatable. Enforcement has never been allowed anywhere in Europe and, to the best of my knowledge, there's never been a larger proportional number of head injuries over there. The real problem is the combination of the game getting so much faster, the equipment getting so much bigger/better, and the players getting so much bigger/faster :
- Bigger, better equipment makes the players feel invincible and feel the other player also is, prompting the need for bigger hits aimed at the one weak spot.
- Players got bigger and faster due to huge emphasis on training that didn't exist back in the days, resulting in higher speed and heavier mass. Add more weight and speed to a contact and, obviously, you get more injuries.
- Hooking and holding (or clutch and grab style) actually helped counter that last point up to the rule changes after the first lock-out. It slowed down the players just enough to diminish the weight/speed ratio to an acceptable contact level, and, once hooked/held, the players were forced to actually look up and try to find a teammate to pass the puck to. Now players with a tendency to skate with their head down do it that much more often.
-Higher overall speed also means less time for a player to "aim" and adjust, potentially increasing the accidental hits directly to the head, and fewer time for the targeted player to protect himself.

I'm also pretty sure doctors have both become better at diagnosing those head injuries, and understanding the long-term repercussions of them, becoming more unwilling to let the players play with those injuries. Back in the days, if you had a concussion, you'd just take a couple of aspirins and hope the headaches/dizziness/sickness passes.

And I really, really doubt many players take the time to think : "hey, maybe I shouldn't hit that guy 'cause there's a chance that big dude sitting on the bench comes over here to hit my pretty face".

Last edited by Mafarfloune; 03-07-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jestre View Post
Unfortunately with the crackdown on fighting the game has lost much of its passion. I find it hard to watch regular season games anymore, you couldn't drag me away from "any" game in the 70's and 80's. Now the difference between regular season games and playoff games is EXTREME, didnt used to be so pronounced. Game has changed alot over the last 20 years:

Crackdown on fighting
Massive increase in Goalie Pads size
Clutch and grab style of play
Player size increase resulting in smaller seeming rink sizes
Serious head injuries due to lack of player enforcement being allowed
etc etc etc....
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuffleball View Post
IMHO, the two bold points have done more to harm the charm and appeal of the sport than anything. I came into the game in the mid 1980s. LOVED the flow and the potential that there could be a score literally every time a team started up ice on the attack. That anticipation was exciting, at least for me.

The "modern" game has lost that feeling, IMO. "Systems" replaced being creative and free flowing play. Goalie pads balooned and there's nothing to shot at. Rarely now does a player come flying down the wing and blast one by the goalie. The defensive system has cut off the flying down the wing part, and the wall of goalie pads as literally cut off any view of the net.

It's a shame really. I want players to be protected, but I think goalies are a bit too bloated nowadays. And the clutch-n-grab stuff is a little better now, but the system behind it, is still there and stifling flow.
I too very much miss the NHL game of the '70s and '80s. The only time I get a glimpse of that kind of end-to-end action now is 4-on-4.

I am particularly weary of a) blocked shots, b) that such a large percentage of the game is played along the boards, and c) that teams look to generate offense with shots from the point / crash the net.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:27 AM   #80
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This is one of the times when "older is actually better"
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