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Old 01-13-2019, 06:25 PM   #1
grall1126
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The Baseball Reference website

I know most of you know about this site but man, you can find everything on it. Just thought I would share


https://www.baseball-reference.com/
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grall1126 View Post
I know most of you know about this site but man, you can find everything on it. Just thought I would share


https://www.baseball-reference.com/
The play-index is a fantastic tool too, but you have to pay for an account to use it. Simply awesome.
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"Yeah, I know, I know, I know
It's still not enough
Nothing short of everything
Nothing short of everything's enough
No matter how wide or how tough
Nothing short of everything's enough

Yeah, I know, I know, I know
Now for Plan A
I'll stay till the wisteria fades
And falls on L.A.
No matter how high or how rough
Nothing short of everything's enough"

- RIP Gord Downie (The Tragically Hip) February 6th, 1964 - October 17th, 2017
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:26 AM   #3
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I looked at the play index and does anyone know what the difference is when paying for it? I am able to get to things by using it?

I click on the tabs on top and get information, I don't how the player index does more? Is it the comparison component?

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Old 01-14-2019, 08:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grall1126 View Post
I looked at the play index and does anyone know what the difference is when paying for it? I am able to get to things by using it?

I click on the tabs on top and get information, I don't how the player index does more? Is it the comparison component?
You can get a list without the subscription, but the first ten names will be blanked out. I think you can get such lists at fangraphs.com for free as well, so that's something to keep in mind if you don't want to shell out. That feature is available under the "Leaders" tab. You can select any range of years you want, and see who the leaders were in whatever stat you want during those years.
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"Yeah, I know, I know, I know
It's still not enough
Nothing short of everything
Nothing short of everything's enough
No matter how wide or how tough
Nothing short of everything's enough

Yeah, I know, I know, I know
Now for Plan A
I'll stay till the wisteria fades
And falls on L.A.
No matter how high or how rough
Nothing short of everything's enough"

- RIP Gord Downie (The Tragically Hip) February 6th, 1964 - October 17th, 2017
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:16 AM   #5
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Baseballsavant.mlb.com is also pretty good. Has a lot of visual stuff and highlights a few of player's top numbers and ranks them with other players in that year.

I like using baseballsavant for finding standard numbers, and using baseball-reference for sorting through league player statistics.

Last edited by dumbrabbit; 01-14-2019 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:17 PM   #6
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If you like incorrect stats, then Baseball Reference is your place. I went through their stats last year and over 9% of their stats on their player pages in current years(2015-2018) are incorrect. To tell if you are looking at good stats, you need to match up the player page stats to the split stats. It seems that they don't fix stats when notified either. I gave them a list and prove their stats were wrong and they never corrected them a year later. Too much checking to use this site for accurate results. Fangraph was a little better but a lot of wrong name duplicate players when I started reviewing them, so I gave up and that was just 2018 alone. Best stats come off the MLB.com player pages. It's a pain in the *ss but they seem to be the correct stats when reviewing everyone. I just wish that the MiLB.com site used the MLB.com Player Page.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benchmark View Post
f you like incorrect stats, then Baseball Reference is your place. I went through their stats last year and over 9% of their stats on their player pages in current years(2015-2018) are incorrect. To tell if you are looking at good stats, you need to match up the player page stats to the split stats. It seems that they don't fix stats when notified either. I gave them a list and prove their stats were wrong and they never corrected them a year later. Too much checking to use this site for accurate results. Fangraph was a little better but a lot of wrong name duplicate players when I started reviewing them, so I gave up and that was just 2018 alone. Best stats come off the MLB.com player pages. It's a pain in the *ss but they seem to be the correct stats when reviewing everyone. I just wish that the MiLB.com site used the MLB.com Player Page.
How did you prove 9% were wrong? Examples?

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Old 01-14-2019, 07:26 PM   #8
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I know mlb.com does not recognize the National Association stats where i think Baseball reference and retrosheet does.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drstrangelove View Post
How did you prove 9% were wrong? Examples?
The proverbial "Pictures or it didn't happen" amirite?
__________________
"Yeah, I know, I know, I know
It's still not enough
Nothing short of everything
Nothing short of everything's enough
No matter how wide or how tough
Nothing short of everything's enough

Yeah, I know, I know, I know
Now for Plan A
I'll stay till the wisteria fades
And falls on L.A.
No matter how high or how rough
Nothing short of everything's enough"

- RIP Gord Downie (The Tragically Hip) February 6th, 1964 - October 17th, 2017
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
I know mlb.com does not recognize the National Association stats where i think Baseball reference and retrosheet does.

Retrosheet is the best for MLB stats history.


They add stats that were not tallied like BB and others the official records don't show. But they do make mistakes also, like Rob Mackowiak.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:04 AM   #11
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A single box score on BBRef could easily have 1,700 pieces of data. In the course of 4 seasons, that exceeds 16 million single pieces. In theory, that could be replicated for every player that played in that game. Plus, there's the summation of all those numbers along with calculations. I don't doubt they have some mistakes. I don't see how not.

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Old 01-15-2019, 03:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drstrangelove View Post
How did you prove 9% were wrong? Examples?

I love when people ask me to prove things!


So here you go! (Sorry Admins I just had too!)


First thing I do is review every player on my spreadsheet. Since I know the count of players on my spreadsheet this gives me how many players I reviewed(That is my base number). I then cross match BR Stats on their profile page with MLBAM stats on the MLB.com page.(This includes minor leagues) Once I find a players stats are not matching on each site, I research the game logs of both sites to see where the error is. As you will see below, I detail every non matching stat and the cause of the error. Sometimes I don't even have to leave BR to find out there is an error. The player page stats don't match up with the game logs and splits. Now since I reported this almost 18 months ago, there has not been any changes in the players I reexamined. Now your going to say, no one puts this much time into going through stats of every player in the last 5 years, well there you would be wrong. Many people can vouch for me that I do this for a living and more. I do have a rep in this area, so I would not be blowing smoke if not true.Here are some examples as asked for so you can see for yourselves. Sorry No Pics.


Reynin Reynoso DSL Royals 2017 Game on 8/17 was cancelled and stats removed. Game Log doesnít reflect this. Otherwise matches MLBAM. PA on Register should be 193 not 192. After removal of cancelled game. Per your Game Log and MLBAM.
Ismaldo Rodriguez DSL Royals 2015 G,PA,AB,BB,SO all are Correct on Game Logs (MLBAM Match) but Batting Register is wrong.
Mariano Calcano DSL MIN 2017 PA should be 133 not 130. Games Log and MLBAM support this.
Marco Van Der Wijst DSL Hou Orange 2017 PA s/b 125 not 124. Both Game Log and MLBAB match 125 if you remove the 8/17 Game that was cancelled.
Yhoelnys Gonzalez DSL OAK 2016 Games S/B 56 Game Logs missing 8/10 and 8/26 Played in Game but No AB in either game. Batting Register shows 57? And Game Log 54 for DSL.
Jorge Gordon DSL OAK 2015 PA and AB S/B 227 and 206. Both Your Game Log and MLBAM agree. Batting Register shows 226 and 205.
Carlos Hiciano DSL OAK 2017 PA Shows 143 on Batting Register. Game Log shows 144 Total MLBAM agrees with Game Log.
Jose Rivas DSL OAK 2015 PA 211 and AB 180 SO 20 wrong on Batting Register should be 210,179,19. Game Logs and MLBAM agree.

Steve Branche DSL SEA 2016 G,PA,AB,H Played in Game 6/14 but no AB. Otherwise Game Log and MLBAM match and Batting Register is wrong.
Jose Cano DSL SEA 2015 Batting Register shows 19 games but Game Log and MLBAM show 18.
Danny Contreras SEA DSL 2016 G,PA,AB,SO,CS.Batting Register Wrong Game Logs and MLBAM match.
Miguel Gamboa SEA DSL 2016 G and PA show 39 and 140 should be 40/141. Played in 6/14 Game and No PA. Game Logs and MLBAM match at 40/141.
Sebastian Ochoa DSL SEA 2016 G,PA,AB, Played in Game on 7/7 with no AB. PA and AB Game Logs and MLBAM show 135 and 118 with Batting Register showing 132 and 115.
Beder Gutierrez DSL TEX2 2016 G.PA.AB.H,2B.SO Game Logs and MLBAM match stats, but Batting Register is wrong. Played in 6/7 game but had no AB. a-Lined out for Gutierrez in the 2nd.
Angel Linares DSL TEX1 2016 Games should be 20. Batting Register says 21 and Game Log has 18. Game Logs are missing 6/14 & 7/4 Games in which he played but no AB.
Welin Liriano DSL TEX 2016 G,PA,AB,R,H.SO Game Log matches MLBAM while Batting Register is wrong.
Stanly Martinez DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,RBI,SO Game Log and MLBAM Match and Batting Register doesnít. Game Log is missing 7/27 Game Played in Game No AB.
Max Morales DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,RBI,BB Game Logs Match MLBAM Stats but Batting Register Wrong.
Fernando Valdez DSL TEX2 2016 G,PA,AB,H,SO.Game Log Match MLBAM but Batting Register Doesnít. Game log missing 6/6 Game where he played in but no AB.
Adrian Pernalete DSL TEX2 2016 PA,AB,R,H,2B,SO Game Log Matches MLBAM but Batting Register doesnít. Game Log is missing 7/23 Game where he played in game but no AB.
Xxxxxxx
Bryan Bencosme DSL WAS 2016 PA should be 256 per Game Logs and MLBAM. Batting Register shows 255.
Landerson Pena DSL WAS 2016 PA should be 139 per Game Logs and MLBAM. Batting Register shows 138.
Fidel Matos VSL CHN 2015 Batting Register shows 50 Games but should be 51 per Game Logs and MLBAM. He Pitched in the 6/18 Game along with his 50 games he played in as a player. According to Your Standards, if a Pitcher pitches in a game he is recorded as Game Played in Batting Register.
Carlos Pacheco DSL Cubs1 2017 Batting Register shows 67 Games and 280 PA. MLBAM shows 67 Games 281 PA. Your Game Log shows 68 Games. If you remove the cancelled game for the game log.( Aug17 vs. DSL Astros Orange, Canceled: Rain). The Game Log will match MLBAM stats. Meaning the Batting Registerís PA are incorrect.
Herson Perez DSL Cubs1 2017 Batting Register shows 218 PA were MLBAM and Your Game Logs match at 219.
Alonso Gaitan DSLCubs2 2017 Batting Register shows 165 PA but Game Logs and MLBAM show 166 PA.
Orian Nunuz DSLCubs2 2016 Batting Register shows 226 PA while Game Logs and MLBAM show 227PA.
Cristian Olivo DSL Reds 2017 Batting Register shows 213 PA. Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 214 PA.
Carlos Reina DSL Rojos 2016&2017 Batting Registers show 178 & 159 PA but Game Logs, Batting Splits and MLBAM all show 179 &160.
----------
Luis De La Rosa DSL CLE 2015 G,PA,AB,H,SO Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all match but Batting Register doesnít.
Pedro Castillo DSL PIT 2017 PA shows 146 for Batting Register, Game Log shows 149 (Note:AUG 17 vs. DSL Rangers1, Canceled: Rain-148) MLBAM shows 147. Have no idea who is correct but MLBAM and Game Logs usually match but Game Log shows 4AB on 8/5 Game while MLB shows 3AB. If 3 was correct like I believe it is after reviewing box score. 3AB and 1BB he couldnít reach 5PA. This would mean MLBAM would match Game Logs and Splits at 147.
Samuel Inoa DSL PIT 2017 Batting Register shows 150 PA, the Game Logs and Splits match MLBAM at 151.
Victor Garcia DSL STL 2017 Batting Register shows 106 PA. Game Logs and Batting Splits along with MLBAM show 107PA.
Enyor Acosta DSL ARI1 2016 & 2017 Batting Register shows PA as 246 and 107. First 2016 Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all have 247. Next 2017 MLBAM shows 108, while Splits and Game Log show 109. The 6/5 Game he officially had no PA because he took over the AB for Sanchez. a-Struck out for Sanchez, D in the 7th. With this removal his PA should be 108 the same as MLBAM.
Jorge Bello DSL ARI2 2017 Batting Register shows 140PA while Game Logs,Splits and MLBAM all show 141PA.
Juan Gil DSL ARI2 2017 Batting Register shows 142 PA. While Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 143PA.
Hector Martinez DSL LAD2 2017 Batting Register shows 163 PA but Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 164 PA.
Jaffe Garcia DSL SDN 2016 Batting Register shows 47 Games while the Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 46 Games.
Luis Guzman DSL SDN 2015 Batting Register shows PA,AB,R,H,BB,SB ALL different stats than the Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM. They All Match.
Danny Tovar DSL SDN 2016 Batting Register shows 125PA when Game Logs, Splits and MLBAM all show 126 PA.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:16 AM   #13
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Why does everything say DSL?

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Old 01-15-2019, 03:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drstrangelove View Post
Why does everything say DSL?

Because that is what I picked.


I don't think Markus wants me to put up ALL of BR errors on his site.
So I gave you a few and what to look for. The only other way is to have someone review it themselves and then if it is not you, are you are still going to question it?


I've done the research and even let them know the errors and they (Including Sean) didn't change anything, it's not their data.


You can question it all you want but I do this on BR, Fangraph and MLBAM especially. If I was wrong they would of let me know.



I have more things changed on Milb and MLB.com in a week than the top poster here can post in a week. I am known by all 30 Top PR Executives in MLB. Minor League Presidents send me League Schedules. I am very well known for doing these things, along with reviewing signing dates and getting people put on rosters on MiLB and sometimes MLB (but not so much). That is my resume and I'm well respected for finding errors in stats or biographies



If you want more proof spend the time and audit it yourself.


But after you wasted that time, it would be nice if you confirmed it and not ran away.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:22 AM   #15
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At most, I see your point that the Dominican Summer League might have identifiable differences in one database to another database. But as I mentioned before, in MLB there are 4 million numbers per year that could be wrong. When you add in all the other leagues, that number increases dramatically. Of course, anyone can find differences when they are comparing two independently maintained real time databases with tens of millions of numbers. That should be expected. Especially if they use different sources.

Even one quarter of 1% of differences could work out to 100,000. But that doesn't prove the error is in BBRef. It proves there's an error somewhere. And even if it was all in BBRef, it doesn't prove the total is 9%.

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Old 01-15-2019, 04:35 AM   #16
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duplicate posting

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Old 01-15-2019, 05:22 AM   #17
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You sound like Dr. Theo? I'm guessing that is who you are.

If so, yes you have flaws in your system. I didn't say the complete BR was 9% and you seem to know a lot about how the database is put together.

Keep confusing people with 4 million calculations but you have a system to check it! Why not check it and let us know since if you are Dr. Theo then you should let the people know they are YOUR STATS and that is why you are declaring it not possible. Please explain your connection to BR or this database since you seem very knowledgeable how he puts it together.

If you aren't I apologize but you are pushing this a little too much not to be invested and the board should know if your connected to this in anyway.

I've done the research, that was my calculation on my database, now you do it and prove me right. I stand by my findings and I am not associated with BR or any other stat company.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson View Post
The play-index is a fantastic tool too, but you have to pay for an account to use it. Simply awesome.

You may be pleased to see this post from Markus's AMA.
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:34 AM   #19
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Are all the errors you've documented from the DSL and VSL? Are there the same errors with MLB stats?
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:05 AM   #20
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Is it just me or is this thread getting a bit unhinged?
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