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Old 04-23-2019, 12:32 AM   #1
Amazin69
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Suffering and Schadenfreude…the Long (Long, Long, Long) and Longest Waits

So, I did the bulk of this work for a post in the 2017 World Series thread, compiling the list that nobody wants to be on, namely those teams that have gone 50 seasons or longer without winning a championship. It was posted to commemorate the Astros getting off of the schneid, and I figure I might as well make a specific thread that can be updated without my having to wait for history to be (un)made. As for example, I didn't update it when the Philadelphia Eagles put an end to 57 years of waiting by winning Super Bowl LII. So now I'll just tweak it when the mood strikes.

("Championship means of whatever league the team was playing in. Not the fault of the Titans, Chargers and Bills that the league they won their most recent titles in was later merged into the NFL, after all.)

(Chicago/St.Louis/Phoenix/) Arizona Cardinals—Last won in 1947, 71 year drought.

Cleveland Indians—Last won in 1948, 70 year drought

(Rochester/Cincinnati Royals/Kansas City-Omaha/) Sacramento Kings—Last won in 1951, 67 year drought

Detroit Lions—Last won in 1957, 61 year drought

(St. Louis/) Atlanta Hawks—Last won in 1958, 60 year drought

(Washington Senators [II]/) Texas Rangers—never won, debuted in 1961, 58 year drought

Minnesota Vikings—never won, debuted in 1961, 58 year drought

(Houston Oilers/) Tennessee Titans—Last won in 1961 (AFL), 57 year drought

(San Diego/) Los Angeles Chargers—last won in 1963 (AFL), 55 year drought

Cleveland Browns—last won in 1964*, 54 year drought (1996-1998 failure to win excusable, as no team existed then)

*—officially the current Browns are a continuation of the previous team, despite Art Modell (burn in Hell!) having moved that team to Baltimore, where Ray "How to Get Away with (Two) Murders" Lewis and teammates won two rings. IMO, it makes as much sense as Lewis walking around free does, but that's how the NFL sees it.

Buffalo Bills—last won in 1965 (AFL), 53 year drought

Atlanta Falcons—never won*, debuted in 1966, 53 year drought

(but would have if they'd just run safe plays up the middle and kicked the 40-yard field goal to go up by 11!!!!!!…sigh…yeah, I'm not getting over this one anytime soon…)

Toronto Maple Leafs—last won in 1967, 51 year drought

(may be 52 years, if things don't go so well tonight…)

St. Louis Blues—never won, debuted in 1967, 51 year drought

(rooting for them this season; it can be a year on the level with the 1969 Mets, 1999 Rams and 2015-2016 Leicester City if they go all the way. Of course, there's still three rounds to go. But still…GLORIAAAAA!!)

Phoenix Suns—never won, debuted in 1968, 51 year drought.

(the 2019 NBA champions have yet to be determined, but it's a pretty safe bet it won't be the Suns…)

Nobody is "on the bubble" for this season, but either the Buffalo Sabres or Vancouver Canucks will be here come mid-2020, as they both can't win the Stanley Cup next season. The Buffalo Braves/San Diego/Los Angeles Clippers are still alive for this year, and have all of next year as a fall-back plan. Easy-peasy, right? (Go, Clips!)
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:55 AM   #2
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Nice list.

Might want to check your math on some of those totals though.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:00 AM   #3
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sees like 69 has some personal feelings about the Browns.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:14 AM   #4
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The Minnesota Vikings is not exactly true. They won an NFL Championship the year they lost the Super Bowl to the Chiefs. I'll try to explain the best I can.

The NFL and AFL did not merge until after Super Bowl IV. Super Bowl V was the first true league Championship game called a SB. In other words, if you're going to give the Lions credit for '57, you have to give the Vikings the same. They both won the exact same game. You can look it up, the Vikings are on the same list as everyone else for winning NFL Championships prior to Super Bowl V.

I'll give another example to drive my point home. Let us say the AAF did not fold. The eventual winner of that league plays the Super Bowl winner of the NFL. That is a good example of the AFL VS NFL games from SB I through IV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...920–1969)

Last edited by Ragnar; 04-23-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:22 PM   #5
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It's not as though the merger wasn't already on the schedule, though. The leagues might still have been technically separate, but the merger had already been agreed and SB I-IV were for the championship of professional football; I've got to call the Vikings bridesmaids, rather than brides.

Hey, I'd love to toot the Raiders' horn about that 1967 AFL Championship, but they knew they were going to play Green Bay, and they got beat by Green Bay. Hard to call that a true "championship", IMO.

Bluenoser, I believe I have all the totals correct. It's just that the various championships are concluded at various times during the year, so they don't all synch up.

For example, the St. Louis Blues failed to win the Stanley Cup in the 1968-2018 playoffs, inclusive; thus 51 years. (The fact that there was an entire season lost to lockout is hard luck for the Blues, but doesn't make the drought any shorter.) OTOH, the Phoenix Suns failed to win the NBA Championship from 1969-2019, inclusive. So that's also 51 years, but a different 51 years. And yes, I will note that the Blues debuted in 1967 and the Suns in 1968, but due to the nature of the NBA/NHL schedules, the teams didn't have the opportunity to win anything until the following spring, so I date the failure from there. Please correct me if there's a different sort of inaccuracy that you may have noted.

Cobra Mgr, I'm not a Browns fan. (The only time I was ever in Cleveland, I asked people if there was something I should see before I left, and multiple people said, "not really". [This was pre-Rock Hall of Fame]) I just think that actual Cleveland faithful were done dirty by Modell, since the team was obviously capable of being well-supported for many years, but Modell took bribe money from Baltimore to try and cover his losses on the attempt to build the stadium in Strongsville and then deceived the city as to his intentions. If you ever read David Picker's The League, you get chapter and verse on NFL owners of the 1970s-1990s. It's not pretty.

The fact that the Ravens went on to win two championships (the first facilitated by the refs' refusal to flag, much less eject, Fat Tony Siragoomba for bodyslamming Rich Gannon and then jumping on top of him, to boot…not to mention that the only TD Baltimore scored that day should have been called back for the blatant reach-across-and-grab holding that Brandon Stokely got away with [/anger]) and the NFL for some reason felt as though it should venerate Ray Lewis, who bought his way out of multiple murders ("He's helping the kids learn how to conduct themselves as pros" "Like how?" "Well, he's giving tips on how to make a plea deal you don't actually keep if you knife two guys to death…") is just the cherry on the sundae of white-hot hatred I feel for that team. But JMO.

(I loved how some people actually took offense to Terrell Owens mocking Lewis's stupid "squirrel dance" that one time. I mean, a) it's a "squirrel dance" ffs and b) Lewis got away with two murders. He can stand a bit of mockery.

Ray of course, won't discuss the murders, saying only that "It's in God's hands". God is cool with his paying off the victims' families so they don't file a civil suit, though, apparently…)
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:34 PM   #6
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You have Bills last won 65 - 53 yr drought
Falcons entered 66 - 53 year drought.

How can they both be 53 year droughts when the years are different? 65 - 66?

Leafs n Blues - 1967 - 51 year drought
Suns - entered 1968 - 51 year drought

How can all 3 be 51 year droughts when the years are different? 67 - 68?

Math doesn't work.......
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazin69 View Post
It's not as though the merger wasn't already on the schedule, though. The leagues might still have been technically separate, but the merger had already been agreed and SB I-IV were for the championship of professional football; I've got to call the Vikings bridesmaids, rather than brides.
My point is that the Vikings are listed as NFL champions that year, not the Chiefs. The Chiefs won an AFL championship. You gave the Lions credit for the exact same thing you did not give the Vikings credit for. They both won the exact same game. Besides that, the first two Super Bowls were called AFL VS NFL games. Because that's what they were.

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Hey, I'd love to toot the Raiders' horn about that 1967 AFL Championship, but they knew they were going to play Green Bay, and they got beat by Green Bay. Hard to call that a true "championship", IMO.
The Raiders are no different than any other team winning an AFL championship. It counts the same as the Jets AFL championship. Same with the NFL championship games. They were not conference championship games. They were league championship games.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:46 AM   #8
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(The only time I was ever in Cleveland, I asked people if there was something I should see before I left, and multiple people said, "not really".


clearly you've never watched the "hastily made Cleveland tourism video" on youtube!
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:17 PM   #9
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Well, I'm tempted to just say "my thread, my rules", but a little explanation never hurts…
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My point is that the Vikings are listed as NFL champions that year, not the Chiefs. The Chiefs won an AFL championship. You gave the Lions credit for the exact same thing you did not give the Vikings credit for.
The 1957 Lions were the champions of all of American professional football. The 1969 Vikings were not. The Lions won all that they could win. The Vikings did not.

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They both won the exact same game.
No, they won games with the same name. It's not the Vikings' fault that the name had been downgraded to being used for a semi-final, but that's all their "championship" game was.

The fact that AFL was at that time an autonomous league working under a joint operating agreement doesn't make the Super Bowl any more superfluous than the fact that the NL and AL were separate legal entities for virtually all of the 20th century makes the World Series unimportant and would let the 1944 St. Louis Browns call themselves "champions". The pennant was nice…but the Cardinals beat them.

The Chiefs beat the Vikings. Sorry, Vikes.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:25 PM   #10
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You have Bills last won 65 - 53 yr drought
Falcons entered 66 - 53 year drought.

How can they both be 53 year droughts when the years are different? 65 - 66?

Leafs n Blues - 1967 - 51 year drought
Suns - entered 1968 - 51 year drought

How can all 3 be 51 year droughts when the years are different? 67 - 68?

Math doesn't work.......
It works just fine. We're counting "championships not won", not calendar years.

The Bills won the AFL championship in 1965. From 1966-2018 they failed to win a championship, thus 53 years. (The Super Bowl gets played the following calendar year, of course, but that's 53 seasons since Buffalo won all that it could win.)

The Falcons joined the NFL the same season that they started playing Super Bowls. They haven't won any of those 53 Super Bowls (got their butts beat once and gave another away), so that's the same 53 failures the Bills have to their record.

The Leafs and the Blues failed to win the Stanley Cup from 1968-2018 (the Blues having just remedied that), so that's 51 Cup-less campaigns.

The Suns failed to win the NBA championship from 1969-2019 (I know we still don't know who does win the 2019 NBA title…but it's not the Suns), also 51 seasons.

The current standings are now:

Leafs: 52 failures
Blues: GLORIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
Suns: 51 failures

Clearer, now?
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:01 PM   #11
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GLORIAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

In celebration, time for an update, a record of who really needs to find a Laura Branigan song to make the difference. (Did you both "Gloria" and "Self Control" were translated versions of Italian pop hits? It's true.)

Nothing personal for me, since the Mets and Raiders are "merely" suffering through 32- and 35-season dry spells, respectively (and Mark Davis is making me turn in my silver-and-black affiliation; I'm a "free agent" now, I guess) and the Clippers still have next season before they go on this list. (Hey, all we need to do is sign Kawhi and Malcolm Brogdon and get REALLY lucky…)

Current as of today. Remember it's "championships not won", which doesn't care if there was no championship to win, due to strike/lockout/Art Modell-stole-the-team-for-three-seasons issues.

(Chicago/St.Louis/Phoenix/) Arizona Cardinals—Last won in 1947, 71 year drought.

Cleveland Indians—Last won in 1948, 70 year drought

(Rochester/Cincinnati Royals/Kansas City-Omaha/) Sacramento Kings
—Last won in 1951, 68 year drought

(yeah, if I'm going to jump the gun and give the Suns "credit" for not winning this season's NBA title [see below], I should do the same for everyone. Okay, then.)

Detroit Lions—Last won in 1957, 61 year drought

(St. Louis/) Atlanta Hawks—Last won in 1958, 61 year drought

(As before, since the 2019 NBA title won't go to the Hawks but the Lions could [theoretically] win Super Bowl LIV, the drought is the same, even if the Hawks' last win was the more recent one.)

(Washington Senators [II]/) Texas Rangers—never won, debuted in 1961, 58 year drought

Minnesota Vikings—never won, debuted in 1961, 58 year drought

(Houston Oilers/) Tennessee Titans—Last won in 1961 (AFL), 57 year drought

(San Diego/) Los Angeles Chargers—last won in 1963 (AFL), 55 year drought

Cleveland Browns—last won in 1964*, 54 year drought (1996-1998 failure to win excusable, as no team existed then)

*—blah, blah, I despise Art Modell and Ray Lewis, see previous posts

Buffalo Bills—last won in 1965 (AFL), 53 year drought

Atlanta Falcons—never won*, debuted in 1966, 53 year drought

(*-hey, Dan Quinn, how about you run into the line a couple of times and let Matt Bryant kick the 40-yard FG to go up by 11? No? Okay, then…)

Toronto Maple Leafs—last won in 1967, 52 year drought

(And congratulations to Tyler Bozak, who just won the Cup with St. Louis after having spent his entire previous 9-season career with the Maple Laffs. [Er, Leafs] I'm sure he got a few "out of the frying pan, into the fire" texts when he chose to sign with St. Louis, but who's laughing now?)

Phoenix Suns—never won, debuted in 1968, 51 year drought.

Either the Buffalo Sabres or Vancouver Canucks will be here come mid-2020, as they both can't win the Stanley Cup next season. And, as noted Buffalo Braves/San Diego/Los Angeles Clippers just need to go all the way next season, and they're home free. (Ulp! Go, Clips!)

If the Clippers were still the Braves, it might be a rough year for Buffalo. They're not Cleveland, but they can see it from there…

Meanwhile, we now have another contender for "all-time greatest sports story season", IMO. I rank them

1. 1969 Mets
2. 1999 Rams
3. 2018-2019 Blues

…but I don't know where to put 2015-2016 Leicester City, exactly. Yes, 5000-1 odds, but those are only odds, after all. And the fact that there's no post-season in the Premiere League takes away the "last, hardest hurdle" element, IMO. Remember the Mets were still considered hopeless against the Orioles, the Blues were underdogs to Boston, and the Titans had already beaten the Rams once that season. (And had their own "Music City Miracle" to claim the Mantle of Destiny, had Dyson been able to reach One Yard More.) Thoughts?

I'm also taking alternative nominees, but no Bulls, Yankees, or Warriors…dynasties crushing everyone have their own charm, but IMO the Greatest Sports Stories have the "unlikely heroes" aspect working for them, as well. A joke team that had never been higher than ninth, the worst team of the entire decade (allegedly built to lose so the League would let them out of Anaheim), and dead-last-on-January-3rd (and then the goalie who couldn't even get starts in the minors is golden) have a special magic that even the '86 Mets don't, because those 116 wins were more "it's about time!" than "it's a miracle!" IMO.

Last edited by Amazin69; 06-13-2019 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Well, I'm tempted to just say "my thread, my rules", but a little explanation never hurts…
The 1957 Lions were the champions of all of American professional football. The 1969 Vikings were not. The Lions won all that they could win. The Vikings did not.
Then who were the champions of all American football from 1960 to 1965? The AFL champion or the NFL champion?

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No, they won games with the same name.
Yes, the NFL championship game.

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It's not the Vikings' fault that the name had been downgraded to being used for a semi-final, but that's all their "championship" game was.
It wasn't downgraded. It was the same championship game every other team won. The Vikings aren't on record for winning a semi final. They are on record for winning the NFL championship.

Granted, the Vikings did not go on to win further. But they still accomplished the same as the Lions, being the best in the NFL. The league's weren't merged yet and the first two super bowls were not called super bowls, they were called NFL VS AFL games. BTW, I'm not a Vikings fan. I'm a Cowboys fan. I can't stand those purple bums!
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:38 PM   #13
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It works just fine. We're counting "championships not won", not calendar years.

The Bills won the AFL championship in 1965. From 1966-2018 they failed to win a championship, thus 53 years. (The Super Bowl gets played the following calendar year, of course, but that's 53 seasons since Buffalo won all that it could win.)

The Falcons joined the NFL the same season that they started playing Super Bowls. They haven't won any of those 53 Super Bowls (got their butts beat once and gave another away), so that's the same 53 failures the Bills have to their record.

The Leafs and the Blues failed to win the Stanley Cup from 1968-2018 (the Blues having just remedied that), so that's 51 Cup-less campaigns.

The Suns failed to win the NBA championship from 1969-2019 (I know we still don't know who does win the 2019 NBA title…but it's not the Suns), also 51 seasons.

The current standings are now:

Leafs: 52 failures
Blues: GLORIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
Suns: 51 failures

Clearer, now?
.........
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Last edited by Bluenoser; 06-14-2019 at 04:41 PM.
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