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Old 07-01-2009, 07:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Raidergoo View Post
All Strategy First titles are on sale 50% off right now. It is not just OOTP.
For sure, not suggesting for a sec that this was a bargain bin deal, just saying it is screwing over OOTP because OOTPX is probably the newest game they have in stock. Many of their games are a year+ old.
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:37 PM   #22
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Who is Strategy First? I never heard of them.
Check out the wikipedia entry on them. They've published a number of well known games. As the entry also shows, this is apparently not the first time they've had disputes over contracts.

Let's hope this doesn't get ugly and stress the guys out too much.
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kq76 View Post
Check out the wikipedia entry on them. They've published a number of well known games. As the entry also shows, this is apparently not the first time they've had disputes over contracts.

Let's hope this doesn't get ugly and stress the guys out too much.
With all the conflicts they've had I'm surprised I hadn't heard of them before. Thanks for the link.

With their history is Markus really surprised they slashed the price? I don't know why anyone would want to get involved with them.

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Old 07-01-2009, 08:01 PM   #24
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That's fine, though a response to my PM would be nice.
I don't have any PMs from you? Or were you referring to someone else?
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:31 PM   #25
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I don't have any PMs from you? Or were you referring to someone else?
I sent the PM to Markus, I didn't know I needed to send it to anyone else.

Basically, I'm looking for someone to tell me I haven't been swindled here. I'd like to know that as someone who purchased the game in a legitimate fashion, I'll receive the patch support I deserve. And don't tell me I need to talk to SF. The games I have bought from 3rd party vendors, like Direct2Drive, have patches on both their site and on the developer's site.

The dispute here is one over price, not patch support.

So I shouldn't have to wait for a patch. Unless you guys intended to allow a 3rd party to sell your game without support from you. And no matter what comes of this price issue....that's wrong.

I would love to have someone explain to me why a pricing dispute would affect my ability to receive patch support.

What if they hadn't lowered the price....there are NO patches on their site. It has been said here that you guys are in talks with them about support, as well as the price. So what you are saying is that support was NOT covered before this game was allowed to be sold by a 3rd party. And for that matter, you should have patches for the SF version of the game on this site, just as most any other game I've come across does. If you look around, you'll see game sites that list the American patch, the D2D patch, the CD Patch, etc. No reason why that wouldn't be true here. And no reason why that wasn't worked out before the game was made available on SF.

Right now, OOTP looks just as bad as SF to me. And I don't like saying that because I know Markus and the rest of ya are good people. But really, this reflects exceedingly poorly on you.

Sorry again, but I'm getting frustrated here.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:35 PM   #26
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I don't understand why anyone would care if someone else got the game at a better (or worse) price. I pre-ordered, and am in NO WAY WHATSOEVER, upset, jealous, angry or whatever at those who got it for less than what I paid. I got the game almost a full month before them and two days before "non-pre-orders" just as promised; I knew the price when I paid it - just like any other product I buy and agreed to buy it; and I knew that the price could and most likely would change at some point in the future just like any other product.

I tend to agree...I mean if you go buy something at Walmart or any store for that matter and then see the same thing on clearance sale for half off 2 months later, are you going to call up and complain? It really makes no sense. People get deals on things all the time every day without complaints from people who have bought it at a higher price a few weeks ago, so I don't see how this is any different...
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Pike View Post
I sent the PM to Markus, I didn't know I needed to send it to anyone else.

Basically, I'm looking for someone to tell me I haven't been swindled here. I'd like to know that as someone who purchased the game in a legitimate fashion, I'll receive the patch support I deserve. And don't tell me I need to talk to SF. The games I have bought from 3rd party vendors, like Direct2Drive, have patches on both their site and on the developer's site.

The dispute here is one over price, not patch support.

So I shouldn't have to wait for a patch. Unless you guys intended to allow a 3rd party to sell your game without support from you. And no matter what comes of this price issue....that's wrong.

I would love to have someone explain to me why a pricing dispute would affect my ability to receive patch support.

What if they hadn't lowered the price....there are NO patches on their site. It has been said here that you guys are in talks with them about support, as well as the price. So what you are saying is that support was NOT covered before this game was allowed to be sold by a 3rd party. And for that matter, you should have patches for the SF version of the game on this site, just as most any other game I've come across does. If you look around, you'll see game sites that list the American patch, the D2D patch, the CD Patch, etc. No reason why that wouldn't be true here. And no reason why that wasn't worked out before the game was made available on SF.

Right now, OOTP looks just as bad as SF to me. And I don't like saying that because I know Markus and the rest of ya are good people. But really, this reflects exceedingly poorly on you.

Sorry again, but I'm getting frustrated here.

To me this seems like people making a big deal out of nothing....the game doesn't play any differently because of what has happened, so really who cares?
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:45 PM   #28
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To me this seems like people making a big deal out of nothing....the game doesn't play any differently because of what has happened, so really who cares?
I think what he is saying is that the patches that have come along are not there for versions from Strategy First, so it isn't true that it plays the same.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:46 PM   #29
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To me this seems like people making a big deal out of nothing....the game doesn't play any differently because of what has happened, so really who cares?
If it doesn't play any different, why are there patches to begin with? Are you still playing with the release version?

No. You're not. I shouldn't have too either.

Anyway, I'm not making any friends here sad to say.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Killebrew View Post
I don't care about this deal screwing over the pre-order folks, but it can't be good for the OOTP coffers to have a niche game like this at 50% off within weeks of release.
Well, from what it looks like to me based on what I read, OOTP is probably licensing SF the rights to sell the game without any support from OOTP as an SF game, which means they are responsible for support and patches, etc. This would mkae sense because OOTP would charge Strategy First either a set license fee up front, or would get a percentage of every game SF sold. However, obviously them selling the game at half off was not part of the agreement based on what Markus said. In the end it looks like SF is acting rather shady and not upholding their end of the bargain that was agreed upon---at least based on what is being said...
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:48 PM   #31
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... In the end it looks like SF is acting rather shady and not upholding their end of the bargain that was agreed upon---at least based on what is being said...
And this is surprising to Markus because? This has been their history.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:49 PM   #32
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I think what he is saying is that the patches that have come along are not there for versions from Strategy First, so it isn't true that it plays the same.
Yep, that's what I'm getting at.

Just an example of a developer who publishes a CD version, and a downloadable version that is available from a 3rd party:

Ubisoft - Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific

That's on the ubisoft site.

Can you (Battist, Markus, etc.) explain to me why the same thing wouldn't be available here? What does doing this have to do with pricing?
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:50 PM   #33
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If it doesn't play any different, why are there patches to begin with? Are you still playing with the release version?

No. You're not. I shouldn't have too either.

Anyway, I'm not making any friends here sad to say.
You just said the dispute was over the price, not the support. Are people who went out and bought a $3,000 LCD TV last year complaining because the exact same TV is now $1,200? I mean cmon. You agreed to pay what the price was at the time you bought it, same as I did. If the price changes later, that doesn't entitle you to complain about the lower price. I mean I can throw out thousands of examples from real life where someone buys something and then 2 or 3 weeks later its on sale for a much lower price, and people would look at you as if you were out of your mind for complaining that you should get a refund of the difference...

Could you imagine if this was the case?? Every store would go out of business because all people would do is wait until they saw the same item on sale and then go back and claim they should get a refund---it just doesn't work that way in real life...
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:51 PM   #34
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Jesus, after reading that wiki on SF....I'm ashamed that I bought from them. And puzzled why Markus is in business with them.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:53 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Matter2003 View Post
You just said the dispute was over the price, not the support. Are people who went out and bought a $3,000 LCD TV last year complaining because the exact same TV is now $1,200? I mean cmon. You agreed to pay what the price was at the time you bought it, same as I did. If the price changes later, that doesn't entitle you to complain about the lower price. I mean I can throw out thousands of examples from real life where someone buys something and then 2 or 3 weeks later its on sale for a much lower price, and people would look at you as if you were out of your mind for complaining that you should get a refund of the difference...

Could you imagine if this was the case?? Every store would go out of business because all people would do is wait until they saw the same item on sale and then go back and claim they should get a refund---it just doesn't work that way in real life...
What he was saying is the dispute of the thread in general was the price and he was asking why there wasn't a dispute about the support.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:06 PM   #36
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You just said the dispute was over the price, not the support. Are people who went out and bought a $3,000 LCD TV last year complaining because the exact same TV is now $1,200? I mean cmon. You agreed to pay what the price was at the time you bought it, same as I did. If the price changes later, that doesn't entitle you to complain about the lower price. I mean I can throw out thousands of examples from real life where someone buys something and then 2 or 3 weeks later its on sale for a much lower price, and people would look at you as if you were out of your mind for complaining that you should get a refund of the difference...

Could you imagine if this was the case?? Every store would go out of business because all people would do is wait until they saw the same item on sale and then go back and claim they should get a refund---it just doesn't work that way in real life...
Listen, I don't mean to be ugly.....but are you not reading my posts, or are you just dense? I'm the guy that said YESTERDAY that the pre order guys shouldn't be mad about a price drop over a month later, especially one that is only $10. I bought a new Iphone 2 months ago...paid $200. Now you can get a better one for $100. Them's the bricks. So, since you don't seem to be following my problem to well----WE AGREE...the price dispute shouldn't matter to us the consumer. That's between Markus and some obviously bad business partners.


My argument, again to be clear: A price dispute should not have anything to do with getting the game patched to the most current version. I should have access to the most current patch regardless of where I bought (not stole) the game. At this point, I'm being treated like someone who pirated the game. And that is not right, no matter how you try to look at it.

Are we clear?
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:21 PM   #37
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Listen, I don't mean to be ugly.....but are you not reading my posts, or are you just dense? I'm the guy that said YESTERDAY that the pre order guys shouldn't be mad about a price drop over a month later, especially one that is only $10. I bought a new Iphone 2 months ago...paid $200. Now you can get a better one for $100. Them's the bricks. So, since you don't seem to be following my problem to well----WE AGREE...the price dispute shouldn't matter to us the consumer. That's between Markus and some obviously bad business partners.


My argument, again to be clear: A price dispute should not have anything to do with getting the game patched to the most current version. I should have access to the most current patch regardless of where I bought (not stole) the game. At this point, I'm being treated like someone who pirated the game. And that is not right, no matter how you try to look at it.

Are we clear?
Let me first say that I agree with you... This shouldn't be happening.

But if I am understanding this correctly, the other company has actually changed the registry and version number of the game, and it is for this reason that OOTP's patches won't work. I haven't yet been able to suss out from the few official posts on the matter whether or not they were supposed to do that, but if they weren't then this once again reflects more on the other company, with Markus and Co.'s primary responsibility in the matter being getting into bed with an apparently sleazy business partner.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:25 PM   #38
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Pike, and anyone else, we will do our best to make sure that no one who wants to purchase our products (through whichever means), ends up unhappy with our products or service.

I'm sorry that we can't tell you exactly what that means until this issue gets resolved. Please bear in mind that Markus was on vacation when all of this cropped up, which is probably why he hasn't replied to your specific PM...

Please be patient, and we're sorry for the frustration.

Thanks very much,

Steve
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:35 PM   #39
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Pike, and anyone else, we will do our best to make sure that no one who wants to purchase our products (through whichever means), ends up unhappy with our products or service.

I'm sorry that we can't tell you exactly what that means until this issue gets resolved. Please bear in mind that Markus was on vacation when all of this cropped up, which is probably why he hasn't replied to your specific PM...

Please be patient, and we're sorry for the frustration.

Thanks very much,

Steve
Good enough Steve, and I appreciate the post.

I haven't meant to sound like an ass, but as I'm sure you can attest....this has been frustrating. As I've been saying, I am sure you guys will do right by folks like myself.

Thanks again,

Matt Clement
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:37 PM   #40
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Good enough Steve, and I appreciate the post.

I haven't meant to sound like an ass, but as I'm sure you can attest....this has been frustrating. As I've been saying, I am sure you guys will do right by folks like myself.

Thanks again,

Matt Clement
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