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Old 03-13-2019, 12:02 PM   #41
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Ravens add Earl Thopmas & Mark Ingram

Looks like La'veon Bell is going to the Jets.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:02 PM   #42
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As a Giants fan, I agree with Cobra Mgr. I'm not going to miss Odell. He is talented, sure, but he recently has not been very impactful to the team's results, has he? And he is a goddamned distraction and a prima donna which the Giants do not need.

As a Browns fan, I'm pleased with it. As long as we're winning I don't think there will be any locker room fuss. Looks good on paper now we have to prove it on the field.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:15 PM   #43
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As a Browns fan, I'm pleased with it. As long as we're winning I don't think there will be any locker room fuss. Looks good on paper now we have to prove it on the field.
Good luck, seriously. Except against the Giants.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:29 PM   #44
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Giants aren't directionless. Gettleman is doing the same thing he did @ Carolina. Steve Smith/Josh Norman became OBJ/Landon Collins. Gettleman believes players who line up further from the ball are less important, easily replaceable, and shouldn't take up too much of your cap space. He'd rather invest in the front 5/front 7 & thinks WR's & DB's non essential.


And he is faaaaaaaarrrrr from a draft guru. Last season's Panther roster had just 5 players he drafted over 5 yrs start. Only half of the picks he selected from the 1st 2 rounds are even with the team.

So like I said, I don't like him. Giants can have him. I just don't believe Gettleman owes anybody an explanation or a heads up on what he's thinking before he acts. Don't show your hand until the hand.
I mean, he drafted/signed the following core draftees to the team's post-first-Hurney-stint success: Kawaan Short, Trai Turner, Andrew Norwell, Shaq Thompson and Daryl Williams. He didn't last long enough for Christian McCaffery or Curtis Samuel to play during his tenure. And then he drafted/signed some other solid contributors, whether for Carolina or other teams, such as Tre Boston, Jeremiah Sirles, Kelvin Benjamin, and Devin Funchess. It may just be the Jets fan in me, but I'd kill for my team to have that rate of bringing in solid young players. Looks like a pretty good evaluator of young talent to me.

Sure, Odell's something of a headcase, but there are plenty of examples of talented headcases being strong contrbutors to teams willing to take a chance on them because the price is low. The price wasn't low on OBJ, but his status in today's NFL as arguably the league's most famous non-quarterback was going to keep it up there. It's still too low to me, and to the many Giants fans I know and talk to as well.

To see Gettleman refuse to play ball with players that don't buy in 100% in this day and age is gonna hamstring the team in my opinion. After Norman left Carolina the team went downhill with a patchwork secondary. Once again, as a Jets fan, I can tell you how ridiculously difficult it can be to get a playmaker of Odell's talent level. Whoever the QB is next, the Giants are gonna have to move up for unless they have eyes on sucking and getting one in 2020, but the team has so few weapons and no baseline on defense.

Look at the Chiefs this past season for what a top-flight offense can do with an awful defense. Obviously it's not as simple as going to get a Mahomes, but considering what was in place a young quarterback would've been well set up to have success. Now their cupboard of weapons is pretty bare considering Engram's injury history. I wish Gettleman luck because again I don't think he's a bad GM, but he needs to hit on both picks, and hit hard on one of them, for the deal to have any shot imo.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:57 PM   #45
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I mean, he drafted/signed the following core draftees to the team's post-first-Hurney-stint success: Kawaan Short, Trai Turner, Andrew Norwell, Shaq Thompson and Daryl Williams. He didn't last long enough for Christian McCaffery or Curtis Samuel to play during his tenure. And then he drafted/signed some other solid contributors, whether for Carolina or other teams, such as Tre Boston, Jeremiah Sirles, Kelvin Benjamin, and Devin Funchess. It may just be the Jets fan in me, but I'd kill for my team to have that rate of bringing in solid young players. Looks like a pretty good evaluator of young talent to me.
Short & Turner are successes. He didn't draft Norwell. Williams has been a solid starter until last season when he was hurt. Shaq has been OK, but I can get OK in the 5th round. I don't need OK in the 1st. KB was dropped by Buffalo after Carolina took 2 late round picks mid season to get rid of him. How valuable is that? Funchess caught 60+ in 2017. Caught 98 in his other 3 seasons. Carolina just let him walk. How valuable is that? And the only reason those 2 were starting is because, again, DG devalues WR's. So the Panthers had nothing but retreads on the roster.

Anyone can pick someone that gets into an NFL game. That's not the problem. The trick, in the 1st 2 rounds, is to pick people that are anchored in for 7-8 years. Gettleman is not a top talent evaluator. He is mediocre. And instead of filling holes, he creates them. Why did the Panthers select DJ Moore & Donte Jackson last year? Because the team still hadn't found credible replacements for Steve Smith & Josh Norman.

This is not saying trading OBL was a bad idea. I'm saying expecting Gettleman to turn the beans he got into a Giants' treasure is a mighty high hope looking at his track record.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:03 AM   #46
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Your quote -

Brown hasn't been out of the game for a year, Bell has. Not sure where JuJu came into the conversation.
You're right, I got the two confused. JuJu came in because I think at this moment he is every bit as good as Brown going forward. Brown is not getting any younger.

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As a Giants fan, I agree with Cobra Mgr. I'm not going to miss Odell. He is talented, sure, but he recently has not been very impactful to the team's results, has he? And he is a goddamned distraction and a prima donna which the Giants do not need.
But how much does that have to do with your offensive line not giving Eli the time? I'm a Cowboys fan so I don't watch a lot of Giants games. Just those against the Cowboys. In that first game Eli looked like the warden in a jail break.

BTW, are the Giants going to draft a QB this time around?
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:14 AM   #47
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To see Gettleman refuse to play ball with players that don't buy in 100% in this day and age is gonna hamstring the team in my opinion. After Norman left Carolina the team went downhill with a patchwork secondary. Once again, as a Jets fan, I can tell you how ridiculously difficult it can be to get a playmaker of Odell's talent level. Whoever the QB is next, the Giants are gonna have to move up for unless they have eyes on sucking and getting one in 2020, but the team has so few weapons and no baseline on defense.
Why would they need to move up? The teams in front of them already have a starter. Sure the Cards may pick Murray, but good luck with that. The only other possibilities are the Bucs wanting to move on from Winston, or another team trading up in front of the Giants. But otherwise, I'd stay put if I were the Giants.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:58 AM   #48
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Good luck, seriously. Except against the Giants.
You won't have to worry about that since the Giants won't be playing them.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:17 AM   #49
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As a Browns fan, I'm pleased with it. As long as we're winning I don't think there will be any locker room fuss. Looks good on paper now we have to prove it on the field.1:
Fantastic news for the long suffering Browns fans. Maybe we will have a winning season next year

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Old 03-14-2019, 08:55 AM   #50
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True, he may look "directionless" after saying one thing and doing another, but this is a good summary of why Gettleman did what he did. I'm thinking that he had this in mind all along, at least to some extent, and what he said to media was immaterial.

Any coach or GM should never allow media and public opinion to influence their decisions. Should they be the wrong decisions, they pay the price of course, but to be afraid of people calling him "directionless" because he made an offhand comment would be a wrong decision as well.

An opportunity arose to acquire two good players and a couple of draft choices to get rid of a sideshow, and he took it. Again, this fan will not miss OBJ and his antics and attitude. The "dog peeing in the end zone" was enough for me, talent regardless, but I also look at the record of recent team and personal success, or the lack of it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:23 PM   #51
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The NFL is full of distractions. New York is full of distractions. The NFL in NYC is distraction central. If you aren't known for being a distraction you will be once you're on a NYC roster.

I will say OBJ's tendency to be injury prone makes him less valuable. No need to have a bunch of cash & your gameplan centered on a guy who is available only 3/4's of the season.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:12 PM   #52
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The NFL is full of distractions. New York is full of distractions. The NFL in NYC is distraction central. If you aren't known for being a distraction you will be once you're on a NYC roster.
You say this from the perspective of an outsider, not somebody on the field or in the clubhouse, not somebody in charge of motivating the team and having it play professionally and selflessly and needing to deal with a guy who is all about himself, pulls the antics, and talks down about his team.

But I do agree with you about the other aspect: He hasn't had a real impact on team success recently, has he? Sure, he could have a renaissance in Cleveland but maybe not. The tweets, stunts, and incidents are bound to continue, however.

You know, all of us talking about Dave Gettleman are missing a big factor that, come to think of it, isn't mentioned in the media stories that I have read about this transaction: John Mara. Mr. Mara is old-school and I GUARANTEE you that he has never forgot about OBJ dog-peeing in the end zone, his partying in Florida in between playoff games, his leaving a game early because his team was losing, his attacking a kicking net (which fought back well), and his questioning the Giants’ heart, his quarterback, and the team’s play calling in interviews.

Mara may have ordered this trade. Good for him if so.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:19 AM   #53
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You say this from the perspective of an outsider, not somebody on the field or in the clubhouse, not somebody in charge of motivating the team and having it play professionally and selflessly and needing to deal with a guy who is all about himself, pulls the antics, and talks down about his team.
If that is a problem for grown men getting paid a better than average salary, then they aren't mentally tough like they should be. There is a diff between distraction and disruption. Complaining is a distraction. But I still have to cover the A gap when the offense is in this formation. Vulgar celebrations is a distraction. But I still have to cover the A gap when the offense is in this formation. Stupid quotes in the press is a distraction. But I still have to cover the A gap when the offense is in this formation.

When a player gets unnecessary penalties, when he isn't available on game day, when practice has to pause cause a player is having a meltdown, when he runs plays the way he wants regardless of how it calls, that is disruption. That's when teammates can claim a player's antics is affecting the locker room. The other stuff, they themselves are letting the player affect the locker room.

All those "distractions" are nothing but media trying to hype the importance of the petty things they report. They act like having to answer questions about x player's behavior causes chaos. As if the media wouldn't be asking other questions if not for x player's behavior. As you said, no GM should allow the media to influence their thinking process & neither should the players and the rest in the organization.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:21 PM   #54
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I read some draft predictions and a lot of them have the cardinals taking Murray at #1. Some have the raiders trading up and taking Murray.
I just dont see that. Derek Carr was bad for the first 5 games but he did get better. I think they got AB and Williams to see what Carr can do with some legit weapons and not to get Murray. Except for Cook Carr didnt have much to work with. If he fails then next year is when they would go get another qb.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:59 PM   #55
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I read some draft predictions and a lot of them have the cardinals taking Murray at #1. Some have the raiders trading up and taking Murray.
I just dont see that. Derek Carr was bad for the first 5 games but he did get better. I think they got AB and Williams to see what Carr can do with some legit weapons and not to get Murray. Except for Cook Carr didnt have much to work with. If he fails then next year is when they would go get another qb.
I wouldn't consider any move too dumb for Gruden to make.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:51 PM   #56
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I read some draft predictions and a lot of them have the cardinals taking Murray at #1. Some have the raiders trading up and taking Murray.
I just dont see that. Derek Carr was bad for the first 5 games but he did get better. I think they got AB and Williams to see what Carr can do with some legit weapons and not to get Murray. Except for Cook Carr didnt have much to work with. If he fails then next year is when they would go get another qb.
Agreed, they'll keep Carr this year, he played very well in the 2nd half last season considering he had almost no one to throw to.

They should, and hopefully will, focus on the defense during the draft. Some nice pieces added in FA, now we need to rebuild the "D".
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:02 PM   #57
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Why would they need to move up? The teams in front of them already have a starter. Sure the Cards may pick Murray, but good luck with that. The only other possibilities are the Bucs wanting to move on from Winston, or another team trading up in front of the Giants. But otherwise, I'd stay put if I were the Giants.
The Giants would need to move up because teams move up for quarterbacks. In the last 3 drafts the only first round QB that wasn't moved up for was Baker Mayfield who went first overall. Given the success of Deshaun Watson and especially Patrick Mahomes after they were traded up for, I believe this trend will continue.

If the Giants like Drew Lock or Daniel Jones, they can most likely sit tight at 6. If they want Haskins (assuming at this point they wouldn't pay the price to move up for Kyler), they're gonna have to move up or another team is most likely going to jump ahead of them.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #58
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Short & Turner are successes. He didn't draft Norwell. Williams has been a solid starter until last season when he was hurt. Shaq has been OK, but I can get OK in the 5th round. I don't need OK in the 1st. KB was dropped by Buffalo after Carolina took 2 late round picks mid season to get rid of him. How valuable is that? Funchess caught 60+ in 2017. Caught 98 in his other 3 seasons. Carolina just let him walk. How valuable is that? And the only reason those 2 were starting is because, again, DG devalues WR's. So the Panthers had nothing but retreads on the roster.

Anyone can pick someone that gets into an NFL game. That's not the problem. The trick, in the 1st 2 rounds, is to pick people that are anchored in for 7-8 years. Gettleman is not a top talent evaluator. He is mediocre. And instead of filling holes, he creates them. Why did the Panthers select DJ Moore & Donte Jackson last year? Because the team still hadn't found credible replacements for Steve Smith & Josh Norman.

This is not saying trading OBL was a bad idea. I'm saying expecting Gettleman to turn the beans he got into a Giants' treasure is a mighty high hope looking at his track record.
I pointed out multiple times that I'm including UDFAs in there. Teams oftentimes sign players they have on their draft board that they believe they can wait on because they don't think anyone else will pursue them. So Norwell absolutely counts there to me. And Williams was very good in 2017-18, while playing a premium position (which right tackle is nowadays). I didn't include KB and Funchess in my first list because they weren't great picks, but they were at one point valuable players. The last two receivers the Jets drafted in the second round combined for 55 career receptions, and for one they traded up, with their original pick ending up as Bobby Wagner. Compared to that, through my lens KB was worth mentioning for his rookie year and Funchess has passable second-round-receiver production.

I will absolutely give you that Gettleman is not strong in the first round. It was a point I thought I made in my post, but reading back it looks like I missed doing so. That does hold him back, and I was being hyperbolic in calling his draft track record 'great' based on memory over research, but I'd still call it good. He's shown he can select/sign good offensive linemen, which is a major asset in today's NFL. Where I believe Gettleman fails is not in team building from a drsft standpoint, but in in retaining players that go against the grain. It's impossible to build a successful roster of 53 quiet, upstanding citizens in the NFL. Players' platforms are just too great for that to happen. Gettleman needs put aside his pride and work with players more in my opinion (which is more about Norman and Collins than OBJ).

Since the deal, he's done well. Golden Tate is perrenially underrated and Markus Golden was a great buy-low signing. I guess where I fall on the OBJ deal now that I've had some time to reflect on it is that, while the compensation acquired was nearly worthwhile, it's just so tough to get a player of his caliber at such a premium position that it's too risky a deal for my taste.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:34 PM   #59
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I pointed out multiple times that I'm including UDFAs in there. .
But what you said was "draftees". If you had said he signed the following core "players" I wouldn't have had as much of an issue. So that's why I was calling out what he drafted. Not everyone he brought in.

I'll give him that he has found a couple of diamonds in the rough. But I maintain his record is mediocre in the 1st & 2nd rounds. When I look at that, I say the diamonds are more of a blind squirrel stumbling on a nut. Because the earlier round talent should be easier to spot.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:02 PM   #60
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But what you said was "draftees". If you had said he signed the following core "players" I wouldn't have had as much of an issue. So that's why I was calling out what he drafted. Not everyone he brought in.

I'll give him that he has found a couple of diamonds in the rough. But I maintain his record is mediocre in the 1st & 2nd rounds. When I look at that, I say the diamonds are more of a blind squirrel stumbling on a nut. Because the earlier round talent should be easier to spot.
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I mean, he drafted/signed the following core draftees to the team's post-first-Hurney-stint success: Kawaan Short, Trai Turner, Andrew Norwell, Shaq Thompson and Daryl Williams. He didn't last long enough for Christian McCaffery or Curtis Samuel to play during his tenure. And then he drafted/signed some other solid contributors, whether for Carolina or other teams, such as Tre Boston, Jeremiah Sirles, Kelvin Benjamin, and Devin Funchess. It may just be the Jets fan in me, but I'd kill for my team to have that rate of bringing in solid young players. Looks like a pretty good evaluator of young talent to me.
I do see how it's unclear that I meant UDFAs though, especially since I had the word 'draftees' in there. These posts are usually stream-of-consciousness posts I write on my phone on my breaks at work.

EDIT: To play devil's advocate to your point on early versus late draftees, early round picks are often athletic marvels drafted on that merit rather than productive college players, especially in the second round. Usually the productive but unathletic guys are falling to the mid-to-late rounds if they're drafted at all, but give me a Jarvis Landry over a DK Metcalf any day. Also, most players who go later will feel slighted, whereas some players who are drafted early can feel more secure because they're getting paid and their roster spot is safe for at least two years. Not making any excuses for Gettleman, but overall his track record in the second round isn't too bad (Short was a great pick, Funchess was close to expected production for a second rounder, Bradberry has a great season, an awful season and a decent season on his resume, Ealy was a bust and Samuel has been a decent gadget player so far), really it's just the first round.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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